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noahbluel
2012-05-05, 02:39 AM
Five of my close friends and I have been playing D&D for about three months now. I've known the game since I was seven (and played on and off), but my friends are all completely new. Because of this, I'm the DM.

We're all fairly close friends, and we're not the most serious people in the world, so its pretty much a given that are games are going to be really lively, lots of joking around, off topic discussions, and sometimes getting up from the table to just run around.

This high level of distraction wasn't a big problem initially, but overtime its gotten pretty bad, last game (which was earlier this night), we spent five hours in a dungeon we had started last week. . . And only killed one monster, a Quasit.

I'm posting this in order to receive suggestions or help, I'd like the games to go faster, and be more focused, and I think my players would too. I tried asking them to focus more on the game, and they agreed, but that only lasted about 11 minutes.

If I had to name a reason (or reasons) for our dungeon crawl (pun intended) I would list the following:

- I'm the same age group as my players, so they don't really see me as a figure they need to respect (and we're all 14 to 15 years old).

- I'm not a very harsh DM. I don't want to be the bad guy, but perhaps with these players I should be? Even if I did commit to being a more stern DM I'm not sure I could really pull off the act.

- The campaign/adventures aren't interesting/challenging enough. I don't really think this is the reason, but I'm willing to accept it if it was. I give a wide variety of monsters and since they're new players, even something like a Darkmantle will surprise them. I make sure to include stuff for everyone (one guy likes bashing, one guy likes puzzles, another likes being the leader, etc.).

- - -

One last note. I thought it might be relevant to add that two of my players have very serious cases of ADHD, and when we play its later in the day so their medications have worn off. Another one of my players has about mid level Autism, and requires proximity to a computer (he doesn't have to be using it) or he'll go a little bit stir crazy. My other two players don't have conditions that affect the game in this sort of fashion.

Sith_Happens
2012-05-05, 02:49 AM
You know, when I read this thread's title I totally thought it was going to be about random encounter rules and/or encounter pacing. Well, I guess it's sort of about encounter pacing...

Story Time
2012-05-05, 02:56 AM
Huh! How interesting. I thought it was going to be about encounter pacing also. :smallbiggrin:


My suggestion? Use a timer with a bell. Talk with your players about a time limit and then set the timer to that. Let them gab and be silly for five minutes, but then when the bell rings, it's time to focus on the table. As long as every-one knows the custom and agrees to it, it should work.

I suggest a timer with a bell specifically because of your autistic player. Sonorous noise ( also termed acoustic music ) has been known to help focus those who are autistic. :smallsmile:

What-ever you choose, I hope every-one has fun at your games.


1


- I'm the same age group as my players, so they don't really see me as a figure they need to respect (and we're all 14 to 15 years old).

Dress up. Nice clothes, of any formality, or possibly a costume if you really want to might change their perception of you. It would probably be a good visual aid to remember that they're at a game, not fooling around with you in normal / casual mode.

I'd probably try a suit first...

Jay R
2012-05-05, 08:20 AM
Actually, this thread is about encounter pacing.

The fact that the group talks a lot and gets distracted is normal. Most groups do that. But the underlying reason why they only killed one monster in five hours is that the DM only introduced one monster in five hours.

When the DM thinks the discussion has gone on too long, he needs to bring in a wandering monster. Nothing focuses the group like, "Calpurnia takes 17 points of damage and the rest of you see the giant spider that came behind her while you were talking. Roll for initiative."

This is not being harsh to the players; it's playing the game.

nedz
2012-05-05, 09:57 AM
Actually, this thread is about encounter pacing.

The fact that the group talks a lot and gets distracted is normal. Most groups do that. But the underlying reason why they only killed one monster in five hours is that the DM only introduced one monster in five hours.

When the DM thinks the discussion has gone on too long, he needs to bring in a wandering monster. Nothing focuses the group like, "Calpurnia takes 17 points of damage and the rest of you see the giant spider that came behind her while you were talking. Roll for initiative."

This is not being harsh to the players; it's playing the game.

this

You have to draw them into the game and grab their attention. You don't neccessarily have to do the roll initiative thing every time their attention wanders, you can just keep saying stuff like "Well, what are you doing next?".

Pacing is the DMs job and it sounds like you may need to force it a little more. Of course, this is not compulsary and there are times when you need to give them some time to think and discuss things.

Ashtagon
2012-05-05, 10:28 AM
D&D, especially in the last 2 or 3 incarnations, is a complicated beast to play. And it sounds like some of your players have medical issues which make that especially hard.

http://fightingfantasy.com/index.php?%20option=com_content&view=article&id=77&Itemid=37

I suspect a simpler RPG could solve some of the problems.

Traab
2012-05-05, 01:19 PM
Run campaigns where time passes and talking is no longer a free action past a certain point. If they want to stand around a trapped room and bs for an hour and get sidetracked, let them, but make them aware beforehand that they are in a dungeon full of bad guys and eventually, guards or something will wander by and spot them. They can still do whatever they want, but it will cause more problems for them in the long run if they do it too much. Another way to keep things moving is to randomly roll your dice and go, "interesting" when they get out of hand. :p Try to ratchet up the paranoia a bit and every now and then randomly attack them "because the incessant gabbing drew the attention of a pack of displacer beasts" or whatever.

Gamer Girl
2012-05-10, 07:49 PM
- I'm the same age group as my players, so they don't really see me as a figure they need to respect (and we're all 14 to 15 years old).

This really does not matter at all. A DM does not need to be old and gray to get respect.




- I'm not a very harsh DM. I don't want to be the bad guy, but perhaps with these players I should be? Even if I did commit to being a more stern DM I'm not sure I could really pull off the act.

This can be a problem. If your being too much of the good buddy DM it can really throw off a game. A DM, or anyone in charge, has to be a bit of a bad guy...that is just how reality works.




- The campaign/adventures aren't interesting/challenging enough. I don't really think this is the reason, but I'm willing to accept it if it was. I give a wide variety of monsters and since they're new players, even something like a Darkmantle will surprise them. I make sure to include stuff for everyone (one guy likes bashing, one guy likes puzzles, another likes being the leader, etc.).

Well, this one is possible. It can be tricky to make things interesting. It really does take some skill and creativity. And you might not have it....yet. But that is normal for being a kid(and was normal for all of us too). You just need to learn and grow(it's kind part of that whole 'growing up thing' your right in the middle of).

In general, I've found that most teens like 'extreme' stuff. Something like 'goblin thugs' is boring to them.....but raskata warlocks on flying skiffs with lightning rods, will make them perk up. Even more so things like a door made out of solid flame(how do you pick that lock?) or a tavern that floats in the sky.

You might want to look over everyone's favorite books, TV shows and movies and add elements of them to the games. You want to avoid directly copying things, but you can copy ideas.

valadil
2012-05-11, 08:35 AM
The tone of the game can be controlled by the players as much as the GM. Some groups see their game as a bunch of friends hanging out. Others see it as serious business. The group will rise to the expectations they see the rest of the group following.

My suggestion is to reset the group. Take your two most serious players* and start a game on another day with them. Get them used to the idea of a game session where you focus on the game. Once they're used to that, they'll help reinforce that sort of group behavior. At this point you can invite in your other players one at a time. Get them used to the more focused game session individually. When they've got it down, add someone else. Eventually you'll wind up with the same set of people but a different group mentality.

I also suggest distinguishing hangout time and playing time. The last game I ran happened every other week. I merged a couple of my friends groups. They hit it off real well, but only saw each other at game. This meant they were always interested in hanging out and were prone to derailing the game.

The solution was to get dinner together. We met up an hour before game start and hung out and ate food. By the time that was done, the chatter was out of their systems and people were ready to play.

* When I say two most serious players, I'm not necessarily talking about the two with the fewest mental conditions. Take the two who are the most interested in playing a focused game. You may find that the ADHD kids actually want focus, but can't do it when everyone else is distracting them. They might do better in a smaller setting with fewer distractions. The drummer in my band has ADHD, but when he does get focused on something he can't help but drag everyone else towards it. Anyway, you know your players better than anyone else on these boards. Pick them accordingly.

Yora
2012-05-11, 05:47 PM
That actually gets to the issue. A great deal of how the game turns out is what the players expect it to be like. If you are expecting a night of silly goofing around, then that is what you get.

Group size also is a major factor, but 5 players plus GM is still manageable, though at the very upper limit.

I assume you are playing 3.5e and I have to say, it's really not a good system for groups like that. It has it's strong points, but for a group of five easily distracted 14 year olds, it's probably one of the least useful games to play.
Setting things up takes a long time, keeping track of things takes a long time, taking turns takes a long time, resolving encounters takes a long time. All these things are really bad to keep any group paying attention to the game and this group will have a particularly hard time.

So I very strongly advice using another system. Pretty much any other system! :smallbiggrin:
I would suggest giving RISUS a try, even if for just a single game. It's free, can be learned in 10 minutes, extremely easy, and really gets everyone to pay attention as you need to imagine the situation and the action, instead of simply picking from a few available options. It also can get completely crazy very quickly unless everyone agrees to play it as a serious game. But it's so easy to learn that even if it all devolves into crazy shouting, it's still great fun.
But what you need is a system with short fights and simple character sheets. 3.5e is the opposite of that and really difficult to get everyone to concentrate on the game.

Rorrik
2012-05-13, 01:41 AM
You might want to look over everyone's favorite books, TV shows and movies and add elements of them to the games. You want to avoid directly copying things, but you can copy ideas.

This, starting out at about your age I attracted friends into the game by inserting pokemon with dice associated with each of their attacks and Doctor Who (they found the tardis which became the seed of all their adventures). It helped that we'd been picking pictures from the monster manuals to pretend to be in the park for years before that, though.

Keeping focus can be hard, I agree with what others have said that the key is to make things time sensitive. Anytime they're messing around, roll a few dice to see where patrols move to and such, every now and then the patrol will find them, and they'll learn that the dice mean trouble could be coming. It worked best for me with a highly distracted group when parts of the dungeon would move based on rolls I made whenever I felt like it. In an attempt to keep their map useful, they did their best to keep me talking.

noahbluel
2012-05-13, 01:47 AM
First of all, let me thank you all, because of your comments and contributions my players and I had out most productive, most engaged, and most fun session we've ever had.

I could end there, but I think I should list off what I felt were the reasons for our successful game. I don't know how to work the quote thing so I'l just refer to you by username if need be.

- First of all, a deciding factor may have been that one of our players left, he's taking a lot of AP classes and doesn't have time for D&D anymore. We were all his really good friend, and we wish he could keep playing, but having one less person probably made the games a bit easier to run (he happened to be one of the players with ADHD).

- I used Story Time's timer idea, but used it to time the appearance of wandering monsters. I would keep a running timer set to count down from 5 minutes, off topic talking would make the timer un-pause, going back to the game would pause the timer. I liked this solution because it didn't directly penalize the players for talking, but didn't exactly support long winded sections of goofing off.

- The random encounters as a result of goofing off were the ideas of Jay R and Traab. I mentioned those ideas above, so I'm crediting them here.

- Gamer Girl, I only saw you comment a few minutes ago, so I din't get to integrate it into the game, but I think its spot on. This last session I used the "Something's Cooking" adventure off the WotC website, and it had really interesting monsters, which really drew them in, especially the Calzone Golem. I think that for the next couple sessions I'l use published adventures, so that when I start writing my own again I'll have more experience.

- I switched up table orientation. I used to sit at the end of a table behind a big DM screen. Now I sit on the wide end of the table, across from the players. My DM screen is now to my right, shielding only the most private of dice rolls and sheets. This brings me closer to the action and the players, so that I'm not some disembodied voice coming from the end of the table.

That's all I can think off this moment.

A couple of you (Yora and Ashtagon to be specific) suggested an alternate system. I think its a good idea, and I may try it for a future campaign. For now though I don't want to do a big change up for two reasons: first, my players are quite attached to their characters, and second, I've actually simplified a couple of the combat rules already, especially the ones I have trouble remembering, like trip, grapple, and bull rush. If, However, the rules get to much in the way, I'll definitely take your suggestion.

So yeah, thank you all again, I'm really happy with my groups last session and I'm quite grateful for all your input.

Yora
2012-05-13, 07:00 AM
With grapple and turn undead, it's a huge help to write them down step by step on small cards to have at hand when you need them. The rules are actually very simple, but not easy to remember since they are different from the rest of the game and come up rarely.
But if you have all the steps on one card, it's actually very simple with only a very small number of steps.

For example:

Turn Undead

1d20 + Charisma Check the table for strongest undead affected (also on the card).
2d6 + Cleric Level + Charisma = Amount of HD of undead you can turn.
Turned undead flee for 10 rounds.

Silma
2012-05-13, 10:03 AM
I would also suggest that when you start writing your own adventures, use a really mean recurring villain. Make them really hate this guy. Steal their stuff (but give them a fair chance to catch the thief), use their character's family members as bait (like abducting them or something), do ANYTHING to make them hate this guy. This should get them to pay attention to the game as long as they are given a chance to find more information about him, and eventually fight him.