(PF) Horizon Tripper???

[Duncan_Ruadrik]

So here is the Horizon Tripper thread. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=80415)

My first question: Is this is viable for Pathfinder?

second: Can it be made better?

third: Can it be effective in a PFS game, which has a level cap of 12?

Thanks in advance!

[grarrrg]

So here is the Horizon Tripper thread. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=80415)

My first question: Is this is viable for Pathfinder?

second: Can it be made better?

third: Can it be effective in a PFS game, which has a level cap of 12?

Not really.
Yes.
Probably.

1. The 3.5 Horizon Walker could Dimension Door every 1d4 rounds.
The PF Horizon Walker can Dimension Door 3+WIS/day.
Your mobility is severely restricted with the PF version.

2. The Dimension Door thing? No real replacement, other than the limited use version. Tripping/other-Combat-Maneuver can be improved, there are a wide variety of Archetypes/PrC's that grant bonuses to various Combat Maneuvers, and/or have extra effects keyed off of them.
For example: A Flowing Monk (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/monk/archetypes/paizo---monk-archetypes/flowing-monk) with some Rogue levels (Sneak Attack), that focuses on Tripping, and has the Imp. Trip line of feats and Vicious Stomp (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/vicious-stomp-combat).
As part of a Flurry they can replace an Unarmed Strike with a Trip, so the first attack is a trip, if successful they get TWO AoO's against the victim, 1 from Imp. Trip, another from Vicious Stomp, if EITHER of them is successful, the victim must make a REF save or be considered Flat-Footed. Continue Flurry-ing. Victim WILL be prone, and either eats the -4 attack/AC penalty for being prone, or attempts to stand up. If they stand up they eat ANOTHER AoO.
Rinse and repeat.

[Duncan_Ruadrik]

STUFF

WOW, somehow i missed Vicious Stomp this long. I like that feat. I like it quite a bit.

Now, correct me if Im wrong, but the trick you just posted does NOT work with a polearm build, because the trip attack must be ADJACENT to you, which a polearm wouldn't be?
And since even Combat Reflexes would com into play BEFORE (and be resolved before) they finish their move through your threatened squares, Vicious Stomp again would not come into play...

However, I am seeing an interesting Hanbo tripping build out of this, with a Lore Warden Fighter/Rogue maybe... Vicious Stomp, Finesse, imp. trip line, Combat Reflexes... perhaps a sickle instead of Hanbo. hm.

...hm...

[Cieyrin]

I would disagree that Horizon Walker Dim Door is useless now, as you can get it far earlier in PF than in 3.5, by 9th level, which is one of earliest entries to the Dimensional Agility chain. Also, while you are limited to fewer uses, you can use them in succession, since there's no more 1d4 rounds between jumps. The 3.5 Horizon Tripper perhaps gets to jump once in a combat, which the PF Horizon Walker can easily meet with a Wis of 14.

[eggs]

It's a shame the Horizon Walker's Dimension Door doesn't technically qualify for Dimension Agility/Assault/Dervish, but it's probably worth asking your group. If it's allowed, it could make the build work much more fluidly than the 3.5 version.

That said, 3+Wis is 7+ for even a character that doesn't single-mindedly prioritize Wisdom. With 4 fights per day, the 3.5 version only got 8ish teleports in combat anyway. The main losses from the PF shift are self sufficiency (just because of the way Tripping works) and in out-of-combat utility.

EDIT:
Or what Cieyrin said a half hour earlier. >_<

[grarrrg]

Alright, so the in combat applications of Horizon Walker are still valid.
But gone completely is the out of combat transportation utility.

The Dimensional Agility feats are quite nice however.

[ericgrau]

Ya unlimited dimension door is a fairly abusable party ferrying ability. What you get instead for combat could be replaced with a magic item. At least you no longer have to waste several levels of your build to get it anymore, so the cost went down along with the benefit.

That plus you normally only use dimension door 0 or 1 times per combat anyway to get out of a jam. Otherwise it eats your turns and kills your ability to do anything useful.

Even with dimensional agility you only have a move action left which isn't too useful. What could fix that would be the quicken spell like ability feat which you can apply to dimension door at level 16. Swift action teleport every round on melee? Now that's nuts. But I wouldn't bother with horizon walker levels until needed. Until then you're just a tripper.

[eggs]

It could still be useful for a support melee character - drag other allies into melee range, let them full attack on their initiatives. This is generally friendlier with Trip's mechanics anyway - if you're focusing fire with heavy allied bruisers, provoking AoOs with trips will mean considerably more damage than normal.