So... what's up with JPM?

[Greyfeld85]

I know that some people like the Jade Phoenix Mage, and it seems like a very flavorful class. But I'm not sure why it's actually considered a "good" PrC. I've looked at it several times, and it seems to me that sacrificing several levels of spellcasting isn't worth what the prestige class gives you in class features.

Is there something I'm missing?

[Roguenewb]

I believe the tier list lists it as a +0 PrC (perhaps +1), which means its about the same as staying in one class.

But, as to the explanation: Its fairly good because it avoids the classic problem of theurge classes. You can qualify with only 1 dead level from a initiating class, or if you feel stingy, you can get in for 3 feats. On top of that, you get an improved version of arcane strike for free (deals way more damage on single shots, or can give +4 on attack for a 0th slot) and an all day DR (of up to 10!). As well as all that, its a full BAB 8/10 casting class, and in fact, if you pretend its a 5 level PrC where you take a single hit at level 1? It gets real solid.

Finally, the meat is that it progresses the best melee mechanic (manuvers) and spell casting, while giving you not irrelevant class features.

[Randomguy]

Mainly it's good because it's one of the few functional caster PrC's. I mean, full BAB, and good class features. And really, you only lose 2 caster levels, so it's still possible to get in and get 9's. Compare to eldritch knight, which loses only 1 caster level, but doesn't add ANYTHING other then full BAB and casting, so it's rarely chosen.

Compare spellsword, rage mage, enlightened fist, green star adept and acolyte of the skin, which all suck.

For further proof, compare Warblade 1/Wizard 5/JPM 9/AB Champ 5 to Warblade 1/Wizard 5/E.K. 9/Ab Champ 5 (not necessarily that order for Ab champ and E.K/J.P.M)

Both builds get 9th level spells, +16 BAB and all the benefits from Abjurant Champion, but the J.P.M also gets maneuvers, stances and class features, including a more powerful version of Arcane Strike and the chance to metamagic a few spells for free, in exchange for 1 caster level.

The fighter gish build that also gets a level of spell sword isn't much different, except they can choose to dump the caster level to make the build come online a level earlier, and they don't get any maneuvers at all.

[Heatwizard]

Woah, dude. What did you do that got the server to submit that post seven times?

[eggs]

You're looking at it backward. Of course it's worse than caster levels. Everything's worse than caster levels. It's for gishes, who are casters who specifically compromise their spellcasting for a melee combat gimmick. Like other gishes, it compomises its spellcasting for a melee combat gimmick, but this time with ToB maneuvers.

But the point is a gish class using ToB maneuvers, and it does that in a way that's comparable to the other gish staples, like Eldritch Knight, Knight Phantom or Swiftblade.

[BIGMamaSloth]

Woah, dude. What did you do that got the server to submit that post seven times?

I have never in my life seen a septuple post. nor have I seen any form of double post with 3-5 minute breaks in between each post. I don't know whether to call that tragic or awesome. :smalleek:

[gorfnab]

Transcend Mortality (Wu jen spell, CM) + Emerald Immolation = :smallbiggrin:

[Jigokuro]

Transcend Mortality (Wu jen spell, CM) + Emerald Immolation = :smallbiggrin:

That is hilarious. srs.

To the op, JPM is basically the best gish prc (given you still grab Abj Champ.)
No straight caster is going to give up caster levels, period, but for any combat mage JPM is the best; superior arcane strike, full BAB, fewer enough CL hits to still get 9s, fun/good features. The only other gish class that might be as good is swiftblade.

[Malachei]

JPM is an awesome PrC for gishes. Even first level. Getting +4 to hit and 1d10 addtional damage per spell level sacrificed is just nice. Gaining DR up to 10/evil as long as youmaintain a stance is also fine. The higher level abilities are just outstandin: free empower once per encounter, fire aura 1d6 per spell level expended, quickened spell and of course, exploding and surviving your own destruction.

That, with a 8/10 spellcasting progression, full BAB, 5 maneuvers, is just great.

[Heatwizard]

I have never in my life seen a septuple post. nor have I seen any form of double post with 3-5 minute breaks in between each post. I don't know whether to call that tragic or awesome. :smalleek:

I've seen minutes-long multiposts before, but usually they go up to, like, three? I assume it's a server thing, since this is the only board that I've seen with that issue and the server in question is notoriously issue-laden.

To actually contribute, a level of (initiator of your choice) and 2 lost caster levels from JPM is still enough to get ninth level spells, as well as 17 BAB. Just something to keep in mind as you look at it.

[Answerer]

If you get an error when posting, it can look like it didn't go through when it did. If you hit Refresh, you'll get a "in order to refresh this page, your browser will have to resend some information, OK/Cancel?" and if you hit OK, you effectively post again. There's no particular reason why this couldn't happen repeatedly...

[Chronos]

Wu Jen get a lot of things that work nicely with JPM. Your Body Outside Body copies can still use all of their maneuvers (including White Raven Tactics, if they have it), and Giant Size is about the strongest melee buff available, if you're in a space big enough to use it.

[nedz]

If you get an error when posting, it can look like it didn't go through when it did. If you hit Refresh, you'll get a "in order to refresh this page, your browser will have to resend some information, OK/Cancel?" and if you hit OK, you effectively post again. There's no particular reason why this couldn't happen repeatedly...

I had four earlier today, before I squashed them.

The trick I've found is to reopen the thread in a new tab and see if your post is on the thread already; you can then cancel the retry.

This might not be apparent if your post is the last on a page however, but thats another issuebug.

[Answerer]

I usually hit Back, copy what I wrote, hit Back again (so I'm back at the thread before posting), and hit Refresh. Usually my post is there; if not, I hit Reply and paste what I'd copied.