Quick Question about Tiers [3.5]

[Empedocles]

Google fu has failed me :smallfurious:

What Tier would the witch base class (alternative sorcerer) from the DMG in the section right before PrCs be?

[Yorrin]

After taking a quick glance I'd put it in high-ish T4. It's got a decent enough quality spell list, but with no class features to support it and no real way of expanding its tiny list of available spells.

[Empedocles]

After taking a quick glance I'd put it in high-ish T4. It's got a decent enough quality spell list, but with no class features to support it and no real way of expanding its tiny list of available spells.

Alright, high 4 (maybe low 3?) seems pretty accurate. What if it was given the wild shape progression of a druid, and the familiar was replaced with an animal companion?

[Yorrin]

Alright, high 4 (maybe low 3?) seems pretty accurate. What if it was given the wild shape progression of a druid, and the familiar was replaced with an animal companion?

Hard to say. Wildshape in and of itself doesn't directly support the spell list that the Witch has, but it's powerful enough to probably at least warrant a bump up to low-mid T3. Animal Companion isn't really relevant at the higher tiers without getting into ubermount builds.

If you really want to do something thematic and useful add on something like Dread Necromancer has where at certain levels you can add spells to your list that aren't normally on it. In conjunction with the Wildshaping and Animal Companion you're now looking at a character that can focus one or two roles with a strong amount of competency.

[Empedocles]

Hard to say. Wildshape in and of itself doesn't directly support the spell list that the Witch has, but it's powerful enough to probably at least warrant a bump up to low-mid T3. Animal Companion isn't really relevant at the higher tiers without getting into ubermount builds.

If you really want to do something thematic and useful add on something like Dread Necromancer has where at certain levels you can add spells to your list that aren't normally on it. In conjunction with the Wildshaping and Animal Companion you're now looking at a character that can focus one or two roles with a strong amount of competency.

Wild shape and animal companion were suggested more for flavor then optimization.

[Yorrin]

Wild shape and animal companion were suggested more for flavor than optimization.

Fair enough. I'd say that the class you've created here would be an interesting one to play, and in a low-mid op game I can see having a good bit of fun with it.

[Empedocles]

Fair enough. I'd say that the class you've created here would be an interesting one to play, and in a low-mid op game I can see having a good bit of fun with it.

Alright, I'll put up a slightly tweaked one in the homebrew forums soon then :smallsmile:

[Roguenewb]

I'd never noticed that spell list before, that's kick-&*(. I think if you give wildshape, animal companion, brew potion at level 1, and some sort of scaling bonus against foes she's charmed/cursed, you'd get a class that competes with Dread Necro and Beguiller.

[Empedocles]

I'd never noticed that spell list before, that's kick-&*(. I think if you give wildshape, animal companion, brew potion at level 1, and some sort of scaling bonus against foes she's charmed/cursed, you'd get a class that competes with Dread Necro and Beguiller.

I hope so :smallwink: (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=13184977)