monster idea.

[Darth Stabber]

So while working on a homebrew project I came up with this idea, it was going to be part of it, but it felt inconsistant with the rest of it, but too good to just throw away entirely.

Let's start with a demonic cultist. When he dies, his soul goes to the abyss. The soul becomes a petitioner of the abyss, a mane. After a while a mane is promoted to a dretch or quasit. So my idea is a creature that skipped the middle steps, and his soul is promoted while still attached to it's mortal coil. Exactly how this is achieved can be attributed to any number of possibilities. It could be a reward given to successful operatives, or a ritual that powerful demonologists perform. It could work just as well with devils, yugoloths, oni, or any other evil outsider (this seems a touch out of character for good aligned outsiders, and violates too many rules for mechanus to sanction it, and the Slaad have methods of reproduction all their own that would seem to rule this out). They take on certain demonic features that can be hidden to allow continued funtionality as earthly servants, retractable natural weapons, energy resist and DR, maybe even wings in the case of quasits. Then allowing further promotion can lead to even scarier transformations, like babau, giving the frightening bonuses. And the concept kinda makes sense in that outsiders are pure soulstuff. And when the little bugger dies his soul (already a demon) leaves his body, either back onto the battlefield to continue fighting, or to the abyss skipping the welcoming briefing and inprocessing, since he's already one of them.

Now you might say that this requires me to brew up some new creature template, or do each monster individually, a big undertaking, and one better suited for the homebrew boards. I needn't do any such thing. I just need to think a little outside the box and ignore a couple restriction on something that already exists. What other creature has a big helping of another creature inside them that they can hide in a humanish form, or unleash to assume a form that is an amalgam of the creature inside and their original typing? Lycanthrope. Make a weredretch, a werequasit, a werebearded devil. You just don't call them werecreatures, they are demonsouled, or whatever else. To make this even scarier, it gets outsider hit dice instead of animal.

I have been toying with this idea for a while now, and I can't really judge it objectively anymore. What does everyone else think?

[Kol Korran]

i'm no master of homebrewing or balance issues, but the idea is interesting. a new template to add to the field? with nice flavor? i'd be interested in seeing how you make it happen.

[Kuulvheysoon]

This sounds like it could be worked into a PRestige Class, actually, somewhat of a mix between that one demonbinder PrC in DotU and the Acolyte of the Skin from CAr.

[Darth Stabber]

This sounds like it could be worked into a PRestige Class, actually, somewhat of a mix between that one demonbinder PrC in DotU and the Acolyte of the Skin from CAr.

I considered it, but I am already at work on a number of homebrew concepts for my Soul Eater d20 game (based on the anime). Given that my time is split between that, planning and running my weekly D&D game, and at some point finishing my gestalt handbook, I couldn't give it the time I thought it needed, until I realized that what I was after was only a minor modification to lycanthrope (namely ignoring a couple of restrictions). Now the power level might get out of hand, so you really can't use the CR guidelines very easily.

[KillianHawkeye]

I think this is a brilliant idea.

[prufock]

Most of this is fluff, but you do post some specific mechanical abilities.
retractable natural weapons
energy resist
DR
wings
further promotion can lead to even scarier transformations

Half-Fiend template reflavored can do this. Scaling (slowly) DR, elemental resistances, wings, and natural weapons all included, plus SLAs that improve by level. A hefty +4 LA, though.

A somewhat lower-end version of this could be a Fiendish-templated creature.

Binder could also fit with this pretty well. Just bind the same vestiges every day and ignore the binding flavor.

For hiding the signs of this, how about making the base race Changeling?

[Darth Stabber]

Most of this is fluff, but you do post some specific mechanical abilities.
retractable natural weapons
energy resist
DR
wings
further promotion can lead to even scarier transformations

Half-Fiend template reflavored can do this. Scaling (slowly) DR, elemental resistances, wings, and natural weapons all included, plus SLAs that improve by level. A hefty +4 LA, though.

A somewhat lower-end version of this could be a Fiendish-templated creature.

Binder could also fit with this pretty well. Just bind the same vestiges every day and ignore the binding flavor.

For hiding the signs of this, how about making the base race Changeling?

I already have the mechanics, lycanthropic creature template. All I do is replace the animal with a demon. And further "promotions" are easy, take off the first template and add the second. A dretchsouled creature gets promoted to a babausouled one, all I do is take off the weredretch and add werebabau.

[prufock]

I already have the mechanics, lycanthropic creature template. All I do is replace the animal with a demon. And further "promotions" are easy, take off the first template and add the second. A dretchsouled creature gets promoted to a babausouled one, all I do is take off the weredretch and add werebabau.

Sure, I'm just offering some already-existing options that would meet your needs. I don't know how balanced a were-demon would be, since the lycanthrope template is geared towards animals, so I would use what's already available instead. You may be looking for a more specific suite of abilities though.

[Andorax]

This already exists. Please see Class Acts: The Tainted (Dragon 302). A Tainted Warrior and a Tainted Spellcaster prestige class, both of which come in 21 different "flavors" to cover all the major sources of demons, devils, and yugoloths that can be the source of infernal power.

They also created a good-aligned version of same (The Infused, Dragon 321)

[Darth Stabber]

I was, for various reasons, avoiding a PRC. Though if one already exists that covers this thought space, I can't really argue, though I don't have access to all of the old dragon magazine content (i have a smattering of issues from around 2005 and dragon compendium). How close to my fluff is it?

[dspeyer]

Demons get nicer things than animals, so you'll want to bump up the LA (maybe the demon's LA plus 2 for lycanthrope).

There are also at least a few abilities that may or may not function in humanoid form, that you'll have to rule on. My thoughts would be SLAs, summons and telepathy: yes; darkvision, fast healing and resistances: no.

[Andorax]

It's a fair ways off. Without quoting the whole thing (obvious violation) it goes something like this:

Easy qualifications (3rd-ish). Warriors get D10/good Fort/Good BAB. Spellcasters get D6/good Will/Med BAB and half caster progression.

It's not intended to be willing, but instead a corruption...it actually has nonevil amongst the qualifications. Taint points are accrued by giving into the evil and can lead to loss of PC control.


As you advance, you gain Fiendish Power I through IV (each higher level grants bigger benefits, related to the type of fiend that's possessing/corrupting/tainting you). You also undergo a minor/moderate/major physical change, and other assorted abilities and struggles. All of which is based on which type of fiend you're bonded to.

A few examples (I don't think this would go too far for quoting, and it doesn't add up to a usable class).

Fiendish Power I (Vrock) Darkness and Mirror Image 1/day.
Minor Physical Change (Kyton): Eyes glow yellow, all body hair falls off
Fiendish Power II (Hellcat): Pounce when charging
Moderate Physical Change (Hezrou): Thick, warty skin granting +3 natural armor
Fiendish Power III (Eyrines): Animate Rope at will
Major physical change (Marilith): Legs disappear, replaced by a snake's tail. Slam for 1d6, constrict for 4d6.
Fiendish Power IV (Mezzoloth): SR = 10+CL

[Darth Stabber]

It's a fair ways off. Without quoting the whole thing (obvious violation) it goes something like this:

Easy qualifications (3rd-ish). Warriors get D10/good Fort/Good BAB. Spellcasters get D6/good Will/Med BAB and half caster progression.

It's not intended to be willing, but instead a corruption...it actually has nonevil amongst the qualifications. Taint points are accrued by giving into the evil and can lead to loss of PC control.


As you advance, you gain Fiendish Power I through IV (each higher level grants bigger benefits, related to the type of fiend that's possessing/corrupting/tainting you). You also undergo a minor/moderate/major physical change, and other assorted abilities and struggles. All of which is based on which type of fiend you're bonded to.

A few examples (I don't think this would go too far for quoting, and it doesn't add up to a usable class).

Fiendish Power I (Vrock) Darkness and Mirror Image 1/day.
Minor Physical Change (Kyton): Eyes glow yellow, all body hair falls off
Fiendish Power II (Hellcat): Pounce when charging
Moderate Physical Change (Hezrou): Thick, warty skin granting +3 natural armor
Fiendish Power III (Eyrines): Animate Rope at will
Major physical change (Marilith): Legs disappear, replaced by a snake's tail. Slam for 1d6, constrict for 4d6.
Fiendish Power IV (Mezzoloth): SR = 10+CL

Interesting, doesn't accomplish exactly what I was after, but close. The caster version sounds aweful (1/2 casting is just terrible almost no matter what you get out of it)