Help Please (Half-Elf Bard)

[PowerGamer]

So a friend of mine came to me asking for help on her first character. She was invited to a group who playes 4e, problem is I only play v3.5 soooo. She was told to build a Half-Elf Bard level 5. I'm trying to do my best to learn the system fast so I can help but it would really help me to have some pointers and help to eventually help me complete this character.

[NecroRebel]

You may want to just look through the most recent Bard Handbook (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/21106285/Cruel_Lullabies:_The_Bard_Handbook) on the Wizards boards. That gives much more detailed and better-organized information than most of us probably could.

The main things, though, are these. Maximizing your primary stat is very important, as it affects your chance to hit, your damage, and, for the bard, the strength of their major healing power. As the vast majority of powers in 4e don't do anything if you miss, it's considered a truism that maximizing your chance to hit is the primary goal for every character. Charisma should be 16 after racials at the barest minimum, with 18 being standard and 20 often worthwhile. For a bard, intelligence is probably a better secondary stat than constitution; the Virtue of Cunning is stronger than the Virtue of Valor, as repositioning allies can prevent more damage than the temporary hit points would, and Int boosts AC, which helps your own survivability more than more HP and more and better surges that Con would grant. Regardless, your secondary stat should be 14+ after racial bonuses.

A question you should ask her is whether she wants to be a melee or ranged bard. Melee is more dangerous, but allows the bard to flank with any melee-based allies, providing combat advantage and the boost to hit chances that that brings, and makes being in range to use many powers easier. Being a ranged attacker, on the other hand, is safer and lets you position yourself to aid the whole party as needed while still attacking, making it harder for enemies to both remove your support and deprive you of targets.

[Bittercreek]

Half-elf usually goes for Virtue of Valor with their +2 Con (and +2 CHA). Eladrin are good for Cunning with +2 Int and CHA.

[PowerGamer]

My problem is I just don't understand the 4e mechanics, it's all alien to me having never read the material yet i have no idea where to start and what to do... I have aleadry found the bard handbook but I can't comprehend the 4e terminology

[tcrudisi]

What are the other members of the party? The leader is a role that wants to design their powers around the members of their party.

An example is at level 1. Have a Barbarian? I'd go with Focused Sound. Otherwise? There are better powers to choose.

[NecroRebel]

I'm not sure how much the relevant 4e mechanics differ from the 3.5 equivalents. It's basically just d20+mods to attack, deal damage whose quantity depends on the particular attack used, and on many attacks you also do some other things.

Forced movement is what it sounds like: movement that is forced on enemies. Slides are omnidirectional, while pushes and pulls are directional, needing to always move the target away from or towards the source of the effect. Shifts are essentially like the 5-foot step from 3.x; it's voluntary motion that doesn't allow the enemy to get a free hit in.

Around 3/4 of any build is its power choices. Powers are most of what a character does with their actions, and most of them are attacks; they're the equivalent of 3.x spells, ToB maneuvers, and so on. There are 4 general types of powers: at-will powers can be used whenever you want, encounter powers recharge after spending 5 minutes doing nothing (a "short rest") and are thus usable once per battle, and daily powers recharge after spending 6 hours doing nothing (an "extended rest") and are thus usable once per day. There are also utility powers, which usually don't involve attacking; they allow movement in special ways, boost defense, heal, aid social encounters, and so on. Utility powers are also divided into at-will, encounter, and daily, recharging at the same times as attack powers and so usable as often. Each power also has a level, which basically just means that you get one of the powers when your character level gets to the same level as the power.

At level 5, a character gets, from their class list, 2 level 1 at-will attack powers, 1 level 1 encounter attack power, 1 level 1 daily attack power, 1 level 2 utility power. 1 level 3 encounter attack power, and 1 level 5 daily attack power. The handbook's divided the powers by their level, so basically you just choose 1 from each category going down to level 5 and you've got the character mostly done. The character would also get 3 feats, but those are relatively minor; unlike in 3.x, feats are only very, very rarely game-changing, and even that doesn't happen until level 11 or later.

Perhaps you should give a list of specific terms that you don't understand? It's... somewhat difficult, and probably not helpful, to list every possible technical term in used in 4e, after all.

[theNater]

Much of 4e mechanics are similar to what you're used to from 3.5(you know what hit points and attack rolls are, for example). Almost all of the actual numbers are going to be different, so you'll need to check how to calculate them from the Player's Handbook. There's also a number of abilities and features every bard gets. If you ask, I'll go into detail on those.

For getting started on building a character, though, you'll mostly want to pick out the powers. Powers are the bulk of what a character does. At level 5, the bard will have two at-will spells, one level 1 encounter spell, one level 1 daily spell, one level two utility spell, one level 3 encounter spell, and one level 5 daily spell.

At-will spells can be used as often as the player likes. They tend to be weaker than other spells, and are usually filler(when there's no good targets for a better spell, or the bard is under penalties, or the bard has used up all the better powers).

Encounter spells can be used once a fight. There's no benefit to saving them, so you want to use them at the first good opportunity in every fight.

Daily powers can be used once a day. They're very potent, but need a full night's rest between uses. They also often have some effect even when they miss.

The bard's powers are also (mostly) either implement powers or weapon powers. Implement powers are more spell-like, and usually delivered through a magic wand, while weapon powers are more like special attacks. You can mix and match as you like, though most players prefer to primarily stick with one type or the other. You should know that the [W] notation on weapon damage means the dice from the weapon. So a 2d6 weapon being used with a 3[W] + charisma modifier would be a roll of 6d6, then have the cha mod added(ability scores and mods work the way you're used to; 18 is +4 and such). A power will indicate whether it's a weapon power or implement power in it's keywords, shown in bold near the top of the power's description.

Some terminology you should know, based on a skim of the bard's powers in PHB2:

Defenses: Reflex, Will, and Fortitude are now standard numbers that attackers roll to try to hit. Along with AC, they are your defenses.

Save: Saving throws are now a way to end certain effects. Everybody gets to make a saving throw against each effect at the end of their turn, and 10 or better is a success. So effects with a (save ends) always last one turn, sometimes last two turns, and rarely last more than two turns.

Effect: Some powers have an effect, which happens whether the attack hits or misses.

Squares: One square on the map. Represents 5 feet of distance.

Slide: Move a target any which way you want. No opportunity attacks on a target moved this way.

Push: Move a target, as long as they get further from you with each square. Again, no opportunity attacks.

Marked: This is a relationship between the marked creature and the marking creature. If the marked creature makes an attack that doesn't target the marked creature, the marked creature has -2 on attack rolls for that attack.

Basic attack: An attack with nothing special going on. The sort of thing 3.5 characters usually do as opportunity attacks.

Combat advantage: A bonus worth +2 to hit. A flanked creature grants combat advantage to its flankers.

Shift: Movement that doesn't provoke opportunity attacks. This movement is controlled by the target, rather than the caster.

Dominated: The target only gets one action on its turn, and you get to decide what that action is!

Slowed: The target's speed is reduced to 2.

Burst: An area of effect. Bursts have a center square, and affect every square within their size of that square. Area burst 1 within 10 means a 3x3 square with the center within 10 squares of the caster. Close bursts are centered on the caster, so close burst 5 is everything within 5 squares of the caster.

Blast: An area of effect. Blasts have an origin square(usually the caster), and are their size of squares along each edge. So a blast 3 is a 3x3 square touching(but not overlapping) the caster.

Zone: A persistent area of effect. It will usually be the result of a blast or burst, so that will determine its size and location.

That should give you plenty to get started, I think. If you have any other questions, I'll be happy to answer.

[PowerGamer]

thank you now we are getting some where. I was mainly confused on this new powers stuff. I've watched the PAX games that will wheaton is a part of so I kind of understand 4e but never having seen a rule book yet (hopefully barrowing one tomorrow and finding out more about what I'm supposed to build) I wasn't quite sure how everything worked out. Also doesn't help that I don't know what the group has (I'm not a part of it obviously) so once I find out what role this character needs to fill, I can better direct my questions.

[theMycon]

Having the same character:

Virtue of Valor, 16-18 (pre-racial) CHA, and 14-16 (pre-racial) Con. The other stats are essentially there for multiclassing. I highly recommend doing multiclassing, but that will come after my one absolute, ironclad piece of advice for a Valorous bard.


Take "Shout of Triumph" as your level 1 encounter power. With a competent defender in the party, from level 2 all the way to 11 (where I am now) this single power has done more for our party than anything else. Any battle where you are not in a wide-open field, use it to throw as many enemies as you can in a corner, push the defender into the bottleneck, and those enemies are essentially out of the battle. The DM simply has given up on us fighting indoors- he (3x in a day) threw enough at us to bloody 3 characters and bring me to single-digit HP before my first turn. By the end of round two, he declared the monsters in enough of a tactical rout that it wasn't worth the time to keep fighting. And, with the defender-esque level of surges a valorous bard has, you can afford to be dropped to single-digit HP 3 or 4 times in a day.
I would also strongly recommend "moment of escape" as your level 2 utility, it'll let you throw your defender into the bottleneck even if he's somewhere he shouldn't be.

Multiclassing:
Your top 3 choices, in no order, should be
Paladin*: Requires Str, the multiclass feat gives damage & debuff from the mark if you kite properly, AND proficiency in a no-handed implement. Pay attention to their utility powers if you have extra feats, they're pretty fantastic for a high-CHA character. Also, attacks you can use on a charge are handy for the valorous (but don't go out of your way to get them. That's a "I didn't know what to do with my feat" situation.)
Wizard: Requires Int; gives Orb/staff proficiency, which both have FANTASTIC expertise feats, and their powers are easy ways to get more AoE crowd control if you so choose.
Swordmage: Requires Int; but you can use any sword whatsoever as an implement. There's also something about "an extra 2 or 3 AC whenever you feel like it" in the multiclass feat, which is great, but ultimately less important.
Warlord is also pretty good, and you basically auto-qualify. I just feel it adds more of abilities you're already great with.


If allowed everything from the Character Builder Utility, take "battle-song expertise" ASAP. If not, multiclassing wizard for Orb Expertise is a good idea. The value of "push/pull/slide one more square" is surprisingly high in 4e.

Others:
Try to make sure you can attack any defense. Yes, even AC.

Speaking of AC: If possible, you want a one-handed sword, light shield, and heavy armor. I like Eladrin Chain armor (because it doesn't slow you down), but many chain & scale armors are worth it; you'll qualify for the scale feat without any effort at all.

Vicious mockery is a VERY good at-will. Not for the base effect (which is good), but because it's so easy to pimp out. Beguiling Charm feat, mutliclassing for a mark, Master's Wand of Vicious Mockery, and (in paragon) the psychic lock feat.

If you take the level 1 daily "stirring shout" and any "healer's" equipment (armor, brooch, glove) your entire party will be prepared for any solo forever. Especially if you push Vicious Mockery to its limits.

Consider the feat "improved majestic word", but make it a lower priority than "shift and debuff more" feats. A bard is not a good healer (without "benefactor armor", which is not available yet). A bard is a good controller who happens to be able to heal. This helps even it out.

You MAY be short on heals right now. If you feel this is the case, at level 6, take "revitalizing incantation" if it is allowed. If not, beg your DM to make this one exception. If still not, find a Power Jewel (level 5 wondrous item) and reserve your daily item power to recharge Majestic Word.

[allonym]

theMycon has given very sound advice. One thing, however:


If not, beg your DM to make this one exception. If still not, find a Power Jewel (level 5 wondrous item) and reserve your daily item power to recharge Majestic Word.

This does not work. Power Jewel will recharge an encounter power of level 1 or 3. Majestic Word is a class feature and does not have a level, so it cannot be recharged by a Power Jewel. This is intentional.

[The_Pyre]

I'm also playing a Valorous Half Elf Bard, and it's a lot of fun. I agree with theMycon's advice: Shout of Triumph, Moment of Escape. If you boost your Con high enough, you can afford to be the off-tank. I picked up Resourceful Leader MC for extra temp HP goodness. Improved Majestic Word also works very well in making you a great healer.

If themes are allowed, you can pick up Noble so you have another way of moving allies around.

[PowerGamer]

Thank you all for the help so far. It would appear though that my help is not longer needed but the person i was helping will still need your help. I sent her a link to this thread and so hopefully later today she will make an account and start asking her own questions. Again thank you all for helping me to understand 4e a little better

[theMycon]

theMycon has given very sound advice. One thing, however:



This does not work. Power Jewel will recharge an encounter power of level 1 or 3. Majestic Word is a class feature and does not have a level, so it cannot be recharged by a Power Jewel. This is intentional.

This is 90% accurate- I was mistaken and the power jewel will not work on Majestic Word; as it has either no level. It was 3rd on the list of "suggested" healing improvements because I wasn't too sure about this one.

However, it is unambiguously a power- The "improved majestic word" feat refers to it as "that power", the DnDi compendium lists it under powers, and the text of Majestic Word itself refers to it as a power twice. This means that items affecting "all healing powers" and "all healing powers which cause [someone] to use a healing surge" will affect it.