so let me get this straight

[Crow_Nightfeath]

according to the Omnificer, if you use 4 things of shield other with 4 other people... you take no damage? Using that logic.. if 5 members wear four objects of shield other set to each other member of the party... no one would ever take damage... because the Omnificer also aso uses that the other shield other effects would take away the damage from the previous.... and so on and so forth... I always thought that shield other never worked like that... if that doesn't work than that blows a massive sized hole in the whole Omnificer...

[Curmudgeon]

Nope. Shield Other functions exactly as stated.
Additionally, the subject takes only half damage from all wounds and attacks (including that dealt by special abilities) that deal hit point damage. That's no "half damage after some other spell" clause there. You reduce your damage to half of what the attacks deal, and that's it. Later castings just replace who takes the other half of the damage.

[Crow_Nightfeath]

Thank you I thought that was the case...

[TuggyNE]

I'm pretty sure most renditions of the Omnificer don't rely on negating damage with shield other, but on ignoring it with beastland ferocity + delay death (and then some means of either insta-healing all that negative HP, or just recovering from the inevitable death without level loss).

[Douglas]

The Omniscificer doesn't want to negate damage, anyway. Quite the opposite, he wants to amplify damage to infinite. The point of the multiple Shield Other effects is to have the prevented damage be dealt multiple times, since each caster of SO takes it. This then cascades through SO effects on them, eventually returning in more-than-full measure to the original recipient of the damage, creating a spiraling loop of ever increasing damage. Since the redirection and multiplication of damage all happens instantly, this results in the Omniscificer (and all of his assistants) taking infinite damage. They use other spells to stay alive and active despite their infinitely negative hp total, and then leverage the whole thing into incredible power by means of a few spells that give bonuses based on how much damage you have taken.

[Crow_Nightfeath]

okay so delay death and beastland ferocity are all it really needs to be able to tak infinite damage... looking at them they delay death to an infinite amount... and also allow you to act... and masochism turns the damage into bonuses... why use shield other where whether what the Omnificer needs to happen can happen or not... cause I didn't think that a shield other would wok with damage taken from another shield other...

[Crow_Nightfeath]

but wait... Beastland ferocity allows you to act normally between -1 and -9... it says at -10 you die... though the delay death prevents that... would you still be active after -9?

[Rejusu]

but wait... Beastland ferocity allows you to act normally between -1 and -9... it says at -10 you die... though the delay death prevents that... would you still be active after -9?

Actually the exact wording of Beastland ferocity is:


The subject becomes such a tenacious combatant that it continues to fight without penalty even while disabled or dying.
If the creature is reduced to -10 hit points, it dies normally.

Emphasis mine. It doesn't say anything about your actual HP, it just says you may act while disabled or dying. Which is anything from 0 to negative infinity, providing you aren't actually dead.

Now that last part is overridden by delay death which states:
"The subject of this powerful spell is unable to die from hit point damage."
And also:
"The spell does not prevent the subject from entering the dying state by dropping to -1 hit points."

Used in combination you can still act normally and not die even while sustaining the infinite damage loop used by the omnicifier.

[Togo]

Is there anything that stops you punching the omnificer on the nose, dealing him one point of nonlethal damage, and then watching him fall unconscious?

[sonofzeal]

Is there anything that stops you punching the omnificer on the nose, dealing him one point of nonlethal damage, and then watching him fall unconscious?
...I suppose if you catch him in the middle of things?

But the Omniscificer is not walking around with infinite damage as a general rule. They're abusing an infinite loop to gain temporary total omniscience, learn whatever it is they want to learn, then dunk their head in a bucket of water to reset to 0 hp and stable.

[Hiro Protagonest]

The problem is, if we're going by RAW for drowning, he can't stop once he's started. In the first round, his HP is 0. Second round, -1. Third round, he drowns, and since "drowns" doesn't have an official D&D meaning, we default to the "drowning" section and start drowning again, resetting his HP TO 0, then -1, then he drowns... that, or he just dies.

[Silva Stormrage]

The problem is, if we're going by RAW for drowning, he can't stop once he's started. In the first round, his HP is 0. Second round, -1. Third round, he drowns, and since "drowns" doesn't have an official D&D meaning, we default to the "drowning" section and start drowning again, resetting his HP TO 0, then -1, then he drowns... that, or he just dies.

But since he knows everything he could just get a cleric to raise him afterwords with a + infinity to diplomacy.

[Draz74]

The problem is, if we're going by RAW for drowning, he can't stop once he's started. In the first round, his HP is 0. Second round, -1. Third round, he drowns, and since "drowns" doesn't have an official D&D meaning, we default to the "drowning" section and start drowning again, resetting his HP TO 0, then -1, then he drowns... that, or he just dies.

I believe Stormwrack has rules for preventing drowning-death mid-process, even though Core doesn't.

[Answerer]

So let me get this straight.

You found a thread that has been read by hundreds of people, who have, collectively, spent thousands of hours reading the rules and thinking about what can and cannot be justified under the rules, and you thought you were the first one to notice an obvious error? Furthermore, your response to this was to question it, not on the board where it was posted, but on a wholly separate forum, one not particularly noted for its optimization?

[Crow_Nightfeath]

funniest thing... the more I think about this super build.. the more I laugh because of how vulnerable it is to an antimagic field... or dispel magic.. most of everything is vulnerable to antimagic, but this one more than others. The Omnificer would just die.

[Urpriest]

funniest thing... the more I think about this super build.. the more I laugh because of how vulnerable it is to an antimagic field... or dispel magic.. most of everything is vulnerable to antimagic, but this one more than others. The Omnificer would just die.

Gods are immune to Antimagic Field, and the Omniscificer does most of its schtick by diplomancing gods. So no, it's not vulnerable to an AMF.

(And yes, of course it's vulnerable to AMF during ascension. It's also vulnerable to a grapple check during ascension. Or to you drinking his bucket of water. Why are you there while he's ascending in the first place though?)

[Rejusu]

funniest thing... the more I think about this super build.. the more I laugh because of how vulnerable it is to an antimagic field... or dispel magic.. most of everything is vulnerable to antimagic, but this one more than others. The Omnificer would just die.

And Pun-Pun is vulnerable to the common house cat before he ascends. What's your point? These characters can easily be killed in the process of their ascension, but once they've done it they're pretty much gods. And they both take like an hour (tops) to ascend anyway.