Faaar bow shot and rounds...

[Kerilstrasz]

An average longbow fires an arrow with a speed about 260ft/sec...
A level 10DwSniper(total of 16lvl) wants to utilize his longbow's range increment to full(including far shot and his special 10ft/lvl) to shoot a target at 2500ft...
{100ft(Range of bow)*1,5(far shot)+100ft(DwS special)}*10(full R.Incr.)=2500ft

the arrow will arrive to strike his target after 9,6 sec... thats about 1,5 rounds later...
we have as given that the archer will hit his target...
but.. if the target isnt stationary?
if the target knows that an archer is shooting at him?he has about 10 full secs to react...
if someone else intercept the arrow path just before hit the target?
then what? you say "im sorry but you missed him"?
and the player sais but how? i rolled a critical..its an auto confirmed shot..
what we do in this case? we just let the arrow transform into a homming missile??

[Jeraa]

It doesn't matter how far away the target is - all ranged attacks hit instantly. There is no delay.

[DefKab]

Not only that, but this guy is a trained archer. He knows his arrow, he knows the distance. He can lead a target perfectly, and he happened to know EXACTLY where the guy was going to go (That's what the rolling is for. Luck.) If he hit, it's because he was supposed to hit. Don't alter the rules to allow for reality, alter reality to allow the rules. He wasn't aiming at where the guy was, but where he would be, 9.6 seconds later. He's that good.

[The Mentalist]

They arrive instantly and yet strike with no more force. I'm pretty sure a pre-epic thought experiment had them striking around Mach 12 and once you get the "if you can see it you can shoot it" feat you break the speed of light and can theoretically destroy stars if we listen to physics. (Do not listen to them, unless it's hilarious/epic)

[tyckspoon]

Abstraction answer: The difficulty of such a shot is reflected in the penalty to hit for firing at such an extended range increment. If the attack roll is a miss, then one of the ways you can describe it is that the target simply moved out of the way. If it's a hit, the archer is *just that good* and he was able to accurately predict where his target would be to hit him anyway.

Game answer: "An average longbow fires an arrow with a speed about 260ft/sec" seems to be a reference to real-world clocked speeds of arrows. A D&D longbow is not a real-world longbow; it works under the rules for attacking things. Those rules do not tell us to apply travel time for a projectile in flight- you make an attack roll and instantly resolve it, hit or miss. The arrow takes exactly the same amount of time (roughly, none) regardless of how near or far the target is.

[DefKab]

They arrive instantly and yet strike with no more force. I'm pretty sure a pre-epic thought experiment had them striking around Mach 12 and once you get the "if you can see it you can shoot it" feat you break the speed of light and can theoretically destroy stars if we listen to physics. (Do not listen to them, unless it's hilarious/epic)

However, if the arrow broke the light barrier, it might not be a massive amount of speed at the end. It could enter its own time stream, be affected by alternate physics that slows it to normal, and get tossed out of its parallel dimension as soon as it enters another object's fourthspace. Instaneous travel, low impact.

[nedz]

However, if the arrow broke the light barrier, it might not be a massive amount of speed at the end. It could enter its own time stream, be affected by alternate physics that slows it to normal, and get tossed out of its parallel dimension as soon as it enters another object's fourthspace. Instaneous travel, low impact.

I'm afraid that you will need an arrow of catgirl slaying for this trick.:smallsmile:

[Amphetryon]

They arrive instantly and yet strike with no more force. I'm pretty sure a pre-epic thought experiment had them striking around Mach 12 and once you get the "if you can see it you can shoot it" feat you break the speed of light and can theoretically destroy stars if we listen to physics. (Do not listen to them, unless it's hilarious/epic)

You barely even need to see it; there are distance-focused PrCs that essentially let your Archer target enemies by using a map.

[OracleofSilence]

However, if the arrow broke the light barrier, it might not be a massive amount of speed at the end. It could enter its own time stream, be affected by alternate physics that slows it to normal, and get tossed out of its parallel dimension as soon as it enters another object's fourthspace. Instaneous travel, low impact.


Bolded for emphasis:

Cause your whole argument rests on this. If alternate physics don't come into play, then the arrow is still moving at beyond the speed of light (and due to its real mass...) you know what? Screw DnD physics. Entropy is a type of energy in it. So you are probably right.

More off topic, if you assume that since the arrow broke lightspeed, then the string broke lightspeed as well... well stuff just gets stranger. (cause the only formula i know of for adding relativistic velocities (one Einstein derived (duh)) implies that the launch of an object by an object moving faster then light would force the object to move slower then light. (of course this formula does not work at all, at speeds great then 1c, but it is all i could find)). God damn it DnD.

[Namfuak]

This is like the argument that Abrams tanks are better armored, faster, and have more firepower than the vehicles in 40k. Unfortunately, the same people who write tabletop game rules are not doing high-velocity physics :smallsmile:

[Roguenewb]

Isn't there an Epic level feat that lets you throw something at anything you can see? There is: Distant Shot. Technically you can qualify as early as level 17. Pick up that arrow....and Shoot the Sun. No penalty. Combine with the broken thing that lets Truenamers get blindsense over the entire planet and go to town. Or throw Unconscious Red Dragons into the sun. They won't take any damage, and can't ever escape from the core of the Sun. Seems fun.

[Namfuak]

Isn't there an Epic level feat that lets you throw something at anything you can see? There is: Distant Shot. Technically you can qualify as early as level 17. Pick up that arrow....and Shoot the Sun. No penalty. Combine with the broken thing that lets Truenamers get blindsense over the entire planet and go to town. Or throw Unconscious Red Dragons into the sun. They won't take any damage, and can't ever escape from the core of the Sun. Seems fun.

Why stop at the sun? Just toss them to a far-off star. Or if you really want, use it as a plane shift between the ethereal plane and material, since you can see the material plane from the ethereal one.

[Chronos]

Isn't there an Epic level feat that lets you throw something at anything you can see? There is: Distant Shot. Technically you can qualify as early as level 17.Only if you're using Dragonwrought Kobald cheese. All epic feats automatically have a prereq of being level 21 or higher.

[Gadora]

You barely even need to see it; there are distance-focused PrCs that essentially let your Archer target enemies by using a map.

Citation please? Because this sounds rather awesome and I'd like to know how it's done.

[kardar233]

I believe Cragtop Archer gets you extra range, and there might be a PrC that I'm not remembering the name of that doubles your range but is worded in a way that doesn't conflict with Far Shot.

[Knaight]

Unfortunately, the same people who write tabletop game rules are not doing high-velocity physics :smallsmile:
Clearly, you are not aware of how Steve Jackson Games operates.

[Aeryr]

Citation please? Because this sounds rather awesome and I'd like to know how it's done.

A ranger cragtop archer deepwood sniper can get a maximum range of [ 140 (composite bone bow made of dragon bone) * 1.5 (far shot) * 2 (distance enhancement) *1.5 (hawkeye spell) + 100 (deepwood sniper) ] * 15 (cragtop archer) = 10950 feet

I am doing that at the top of my head so maybe there is something amiss with it. You can use lay of the land and an urban companion to locate the target and then fire without penalty to it (be it by using cragtop archer or guided shot (1st level ranger spell) and ignoring most cover due to deepwood sniper.

You can also use shenanigans to increase even further your range, or add psychic warrior for more attacks and less penalties.

[Ashtagon]

A ranger cragtop archer deepwood sniper can get a maximum range of [ 140 (composite bone bow made of dragon bone) * 1.5 (far shot) * 2 (distance enhancement) *1.5 (hawkeye spell) + 100 (deepwood sniper) ] * 15 (cragtop archer) = 10950 feet

I am doing that at the top of my head so maybe there is something amiss with it. You can use lay of the land and an urban companion to locate the target and then fire without penalty to it (be it by using cragtop archer or guided shot (1st level ranger spell) and ignoring most cover due to deepwood sniper.

You can also use shenanigans to increase even further your range, or add psychic warrior for more attacks and less penalties.

Slight overestimate. hawkeye adds 50% of the base range; it doesn't multiply. Same for Far Shot. But still, a good mile and a half easily.

[Aeryr]

Isn't a 1.5 base equal to base + .5 base? :smallconfused:

Oh, I see, by doing it like this it gets some extra when far shot and hawkeye interact together.

I always calculated it like that, I'll check the exact wording once I get back to my books, thanks for the correction. :smallsmile:

[Amphetryon]

Citation please? Because this sounds rather awesome and I'd like to know how it's done.

Cragtop Archer, in Races of Stone. Preview online here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/iw/20040815b).

[Spiryt]

Well, if anyone wil feel better, 'average longbow' would propel arrow at ~200 f/s at best, and it wouldn't have real chance to fly 2500 ft.

So the problem is solved. :smallbiggrin:

[Telonius]

Bolded for emphasis:

Cause your whole argument rests on this. If alternate physics don't come into play, then the arrow is still moving at beyond the speed of light (and due to its real mass...) you know what? Screw DnD physics. Entropy is a type of energy in it. So you are probably right.

More off topic, if you assume that since the arrow broke lightspeed, then the string broke lightspeed as well... well stuff just gets stranger. (cause the only formula i know of for adding relativistic velocities (one Einstein derived (duh)) implies that the launch of an object by an object moving faster then light would force the object to move slower then light. (of course this formula does not work at all, at speeds great then 1c, but it is all i could find)). God damn it DnD.

There are teams of Quaruts dedicated to exactly this kind of occasion.

[Airanath]

There are teams of Quaruts dedicated to exactly this kind of occasion.
Sounds like the name of an inevitable...
*homebrews* Quadruts: Those constructs represent the laws of physics and protect catgirls, they destroy anyone who tries to bring real world physics into rpgs that handwave them away at the touch of a wizard cantrip.
Joke aside, even if you consider a the arrows to not hit instantly, they still wouldn't take more than your turn to reach the target that far away. That magic longbow can actually propel them faster!

[Telonius]

Fiend Folio 3.5. They guard the space-time continuum. So basically, yeah. :smallbiggrin:

[Gadora]

Cragtop Archer, in Races of Stone. Preview online here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/iw/20040815b).

Oh. I thought you were being a bit more literal with the "target with a map" thing. :smallfrown: Thanks anyways though.

[Kerilstrasz]

Hmmm lets assume a PC of 21+X level ith distant shot and the ability to cast scrying...
he scry his target succesfully and recognises the targets surrondings... can he then shoot him and perhaps hit him?
lets assume offcourse that there is no blockage on the arrow path like one or both in a room or a cave... they are both in the center of 2 different deserts each at the other side of the planet...

[ericgrau]

Regardless of the reason, if you're managing to hit anything with that -20 penalty then something extraordinary is going on anyway. The bow is faster than normal, you're tracking the movement of the target, whatever. -20 already means that the shot is impossible by any common means.

A good modern bow might reach 400 fps. Sure a mundane old bow can't get that fast, but with magic and/or a superhuman strength rating, you could probably shoot even faster. So the shot should hit within the same round at least. As long as it's within 6 seconds the time delay falls within the normal abstraction of the rules, which intentionally fails to track how long things take all the time to avoid complication.

And epic... already doesn't make sense in 73 different ways... nor even attempts to make something loosely resembling making sense if you want to get technical about "making sense". Once you start balancing on clouds as a non-magical ability just forget it. Call it supernatural without being (Su) or whatever.