[3.5] Adding versatility to a archer or monk..

[animewatcha]

Ability scores: 4d6 per stat. re-roll 1s. totally is atleast +1 modifier before racial / sterf or reroll. Keep track of the 6 stats rolls and distribute according to wishes.

Tome of battle is banned except for a couple of feats of SUS and Snap kick. Cannot be evil (starting out. Have to prove to DM one can be evil-evil and not killing spree/easy-way-out evil ). If use paladin, can only be LG ( or LE, but again a no-no. ) Incarnum is a no. Psionics is not messed with very much and I have nearly no knowledge of it so please nearly none of it. DMs I am with usually go with a mixture of monsters and mobs with equipment. It also isn't uncommon for my party to be total meleers or meleers with a little of offensive casting( like duskblade ). So assume no healer-healer or party-spellcaster-crafter. And party goes with what class levels they want for the character they wanna play and we all generally have varying levels of equipment so 100% optimization via equipment is nearly out the window. I generally don't know their classes ahead of time.

Wanting at most a total-LA of +1 or +2 only if desperate. Need multiple options in case of specific regional stuff ( like how dragonmarks/shards are only in eberron .)

Large size being pretty much a given for the fighter or monk so half-minotaur is likely option. I can see a dip into cloistered cleric for strength devotion ( and the ever-abused knowledge devotion ) combined with education regional feat. What domain or devotion would go well with this?

For the archer. Mainly what will aid in ranged disarm, and ranged sunder? I already know of spllitting enchantment and force enchancement and the blunt and slash arrows. What else is there? Levels are mostly pure 'fighter.' I acknowledge not being the party tank, not crowd control, etc. Ranged support being through damage, through limiting the enemy means of damage, etc. That and strength devotion can help sunder enemy weapons that come into melee with me. Basically, taking away from 'damage feats' to add 'more options' feats.

For the 'monk.' Using the dragon mag, fighter bonus feat variant ( no to epic feat cheese ). Going the opportunistic combatant approach so, tripping, disarming, sundering if need be. Call it troubleshooter if you want. Basically, if not doing damage, then screwing with their ability to fight if I can. Generally, adding options besides 'I punch their face in.' I don't mind that I won't be full-attacking all the time or that have lowered BAB.

Called shots are allowed at a -4 penalty. Flaws are allowed ( though generally use only 1. Might be able to convince for number 2. ) If 2 flaws, then no traits. If one flaw, then only one trait is allowed.

As far as sundering goes, party seems to be okay with it as it is needed.

[deuxhero]

Honestly, Archery and Monks are both terrible in 3.5 (oddly enough, it's the one martial build that was buffed, not nerfed, in Pathfinder). Monk has ONE way of salvaging it, and that is dependent on Psionics.

[eggs]

Cleric and Artificer are good at both, the way they're basically good at everything. Oriental Adventures Shaman's 3.5 update has Monk Unarmed strike progression and some excellent class features (9th level spells drawn from the core Clerc and Druid lists, full Animal Companion, turn undead, Divine Grace, Unarmed combat bonus feats, access to both Polymorph and Giant Size spells).

For something more specific to the field, is the Mystic Ranger variant available? It gives the Ranger far more spells at a very fast pace in exchange for the Animal companion and slightly slowed feat and Favored Enemy advancement. With the archery-related spells in Champions of Ruin and Spell Compendium, it makes a versatile ranged combatant, and maintains its skillmonkey component.

For a Monk that's good at the Monk thing, either a Fist of the Forest or 2-level Monk dip essentially contains the entirety of the class. Working one of those into a stronger build (Arcanamach, Chameleon, Assassin, etc.) is a pretty easy way to make the concept work.

[Averis Vol]

im personally a fan of paladin as a zen archer, along with ranged smite and shiba protector for the wis to hit/dmg you can turn out some nice damage, though i will stress that it comes with a heavy feat tax (alertness, iron will, and combat expertise). if you don't like that, well i can see your point, its not very powerful but the extra damage is nice for an archer, seeing as they need every point of damage they can get. other then that all i can offer is a serran wood bow with hanks bow of force and have fun.

[Finarfin]

If you go swift hunter you gain trapfinding and keep the ranger spells.

Another idea is to use the feats that allow you to exchange sneack attack damage to cripple/reduce speed and so on. CAdv maybe?

[Gwendol]

I second the proposition to use the OA spirit shaman (and take the zen archery feat, of course). You get the monk's martial maneuvers together with much needed spellcasting and an animal companion. Your HD will suffer, but the trade-off at least is justifiable.

[GnomeGninjas]

Could you use battle dancer instead of monk? Its not great but at least it has full base attack.