(PF) Eldritch Heritage Fun

[Duncan_Ruadrik]

So here is Eldritch Heritage (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/eldritch-heritage).

And here is Improved EH. (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/improved-eldritch-heritage)

1.) Do you see any fun combinations that this can create? I feel this could be a powerful feat chain for mundane martial types that otherwise wouldn't be able to replicate such powers without quite a bit of gold.

2.) I was interested in the Abyssal bloodline for claws, I feel this could be used in a shiny fashion with an archer or reach/trip build. Also, possibly a Rogue that power attacks with a single weapon, then adds claws during full attacks.
However, I can't help but feel 3+CHA rounds per day is too little. IS there any way to extend that round/day limit?
Also, do they count as natural weapons, and therefore wouldn't require TWF to use?

Thanks in advance!

[Drelua]

1) The first thing I thought of was actually the Abyssal Bloodline, although I had to look it up to realize it. That bonus to strength could be a lot of fun. It certainly has better synergy with a melee class than a sorcerer.

2) In general, I'd try to stay away from anything charisma dependent unless you're a Paladin.
It says right in the second line of the description that they're treated as natural weapons, meaning you can make a full attack with both of them, attacking twice.

[Duncan_Ruadrik]

and so if I held, say, a longsword in my main hand, and used the claw(s) as my off-hand, I would make the normal attacks with the longsword, plus one claw attack at -5 (a "second" attack) correct?

just wish I could make them last longer...

[grarrrg]

Linky (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=229425)
Other Linky (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=241131)

[Corlindale]

Arcane is pretty neat for caster classes besides sorceror and wizard - giving you an arcane bond, spells from the wizard list and potentially double spell focus in one school late-game.

[Cieyrin]

Eldritch Heritage (Sylvan) is effectively the method for picking up Wild Cohort in an exclusively PF game, though you'll probably want Boon Companion to get a companion treated as a Druid's at your character level -1.

[Rapidghoul]

I'm rolling up a healbot cleric at the moment to keep our party alive. He's going to be knowledge-y anyway, so Skill Focus (Knowledge [Arcana / Religion]) and EH (Arcane) for a familiar to deliver touch spells, aid another, etc. is kinda helpful. Picking up IEH and letting you gain ANY wiz/sor spell of the right level is also pretty appealing. You could also grab the arcane bonded item instead of the familiar if you like.

If you go the full tree so you can gain a 15th level bloodline power, Stormborn is a lot of fun. Put Shock/ing Burst on your weapons, a Call Lightning-like effect, and getting to turn into lightning and run 10x your speed is just silly. Plant it on a ranged combatant to deal a bunch of extra damage and, if they get close to you, LIGHTNING THROUGH THEM.

If you can cast polymorph spells, Warped (an Aberrant option) is pretty fun, giving random bonuses to your targets for the duration of the spell. The dazing touch thing is just a little bonus. The reach, fortification, and spell resistance can all be nice if you apply them correctly.

[deuxhero]

Eldritch Heritage (Sylvan) is effectively the method for picking up Wild Cohort in an exclusively PF game, though you'll probably want Boon Companion to get a companion treated as a Druid's at your character level -1.

At level 3 you will have a negative level AC.

Note that while RAW you can't take Wildblooded because they are archetypes and not bloodlines, SKR's comments on Sage (http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fz#v5748eaic9o7y) imply you can RAI.

The most obvious have alreddy been mentioned. Arcane is great for any spontaneous caster, Abysmal is good for (Master) Summoners

[JadePhoenix]

Arcane is pretty neat for caster classes besides sorceror and wizard - giving you an arcane bond, spells from the wizard list and potentially double spell focus in one school late-game.

Hm. I might take that as the level 9 feat for my Synthesist.
EDIT: Can't, lack of Skill Focus. Damn, yet another reason why half-elves are the best Summoners.

[Cieyrin]

At level 3 you will have a negative level AC.

Sylvan has a built-in minimum effective level.

[Bhaakon]

Show bloodline is pretty sweet for a rogue or ninja. Getting the shadowdancer's HiPS without losing SA progression is nice.

[JadePhoenix]

Show bloodline is pretty sweet for a rogue or ninja.

Show bloodline? As in, the bloodline of stage magicians? You are the grandson of a time travelling, dimension hopping David Copperfield? :smallwink:

[Bhaakon]

The "a" "d" are hidden in plain sight.

[grarrrg]

The "a" "d" are hidden in plain sight.

You mean like this?

[deuxhero]

Oh, one fun use I remembered was Shadow (or Umbral) bloodline is better than a Shadowdancer dip if you have the charisma.

[MukkTB]

Hmm, arcane looks like an interesting way to splice arcane magic into a divine spell caster. On the other hand 3 feats is a huge investment for what you get out.

[deuxhero]

EH is best used by Half Elfs, who have a Skill Focus lying around anyways. Plus the feats are spread out pretty far (3 11 17)

Arcane is great in that it doesn't really have any "stinker" abilities, the first 3 (and the 4th to a lesser degree) being all good abilities.

[grarrrg]

Oh, one fun use I remembered was Shadow (or Umbral) bloodline is better than a Shadowdancer dip if you have the charisma.

Bloodline is better if you have the Charisma, already have/don't need Uncanny Dodge/Evasion, or can't spare the levels (i.e. an Arcane Trickster-type build).

Shadowdancer is better if your Charisma is low, and/or you want the Skill points/Uncanny Dodge/Evasion.

Either route takes about 3 Feats, although with Shadowdancer, you may have 1 or 2 of them already.

[Snowbluff]

IIRC the Fey bloodline can be used to grant an Animal Companion. My frog from when I was playing PF was rather beastly.

[deuxhero]

So what are good Arcane Bonds and Spells to take from Arcane?

Bond is down to either Bonded Object Ring (Leaves hands free and enchanting it isn't likely to end up redundant like something that occupies a Wondrous item slot or CMA&A) or a Familiar. Any ideas what is better for a Bard/Oracle/Summoner or good tricks they can do with this?

Spells are interesting with out of class spell access always being interesting Monstrous Physique II for Four Armed Gargoyle is a decent buff for a Summoner, but anything else escapes me.

[chaos_redefined]

An improved familiar with a wand of ill omen sounds awesome.

Your turn:
Familiar uses Wand of Ill Omen.
You cast Charm Monster.
Opponent cries.

Requires copious amounts of UMD, of course.

[Righteous Doggy]

Funfact about Familiars, they can aid other and they use your skill ranks ;3. Improved familiar in 3.5 can get you a Quasit or Coure for tongues and opposable thumbs. Skill monkey shenanigans Ensue. Well, if your DM allows and if you pick the right familiar anyway. I'm sure pathfinder isn't too different.

[Chained Birds]

Human or Half-Elf (Anti)Paladin would make good use of the Familiar, seeing as the familiar runs off of the Paladin's HP. Though a Summoner would probably have the best time due to having more Touch spells to pass around.

So a Master Summoner could actually have his Eidolon, Animal Companion (From EH), Familiar (From EH), and a summoned creature at the same time? Sounds like quite the army, even without slapping on Leadership for lols.

- Half Elf: Skill Focus (X)
- level 1: Skill Focus (Y)
- level 3: Eldritch Heritage
- level 5: Eldritch Heritage
- level 7: Boon Companion

[Benly]

So a Master Summoner could actually have his Eidolon, Animal Companion (From EH), Familiar (From EH), and a summoned creature at the same time? Sounds like quite the army, even without slapping on Leadership for lols.

Unfortunately, Eldritch Heritage does not have the "you may take this feat more than once" clause, so it's one to a customer. You have to choose between the companion and the familiar.

[Duncan_Ruadrik]

couple things:

1.) by RAW I don't believe you can take the Sylvan bloodline, and get anything out of it. It appears the animal companion replaces both the arcane powers AND the bloodline powers, and since you dont get the arcane powers, I don't believe you can replace them. Thus, useless for Eldritch Heritage.

2.) Fey Bloodline looks really good for rogues: Greater Invisibility for rounds = level -2 by level 11. IF you combined with the ninja trick Hidden Blade, you could get quite a few full attack sneak attacks off in a given day.

[Chained Birds]

Unfortunately, Eldritch Heritage does not have the "you may take this feat more than once" clause, so it's one to a customer. You have to choose between the companion and the familiar.

I'd go with the familiar then. At least it would scale better and probably be far more useful for utility reasons.

[Cieyrin]

1.) by RAW I don't believe you can take the Sylvan bloodline, and get anything out of it. It appears the animal companion replaces both the arcane powers AND the bloodline powers, and since you dont get the arcane powers, I don't believe you can replace them. Thus, useless for Eldritch Heritage.

I don't see how the fact that Sylvan replaces a Sorcerer's Arcana and 1st Bloodline Power necessitates that you can't pick it up via Eldritch Heritage. Eldritch Heritage just says you get the Bloodline Power, it doesn't care what it would normally replace. Also consider the fact that Eldritch Heritage gives it to you at character level -5, so you practically have to pick up Boon Companion to make it actually useful, so you're investing 3 feats to make it meaningfully useful. Considering the investment involved, I don't see how denying it does anyone good.

Alternatively, Cavalier + Horse Master will get you a fully powered companion, provided you can mount it, but that's a 4 level investment, so perhaps not as nice as Eldritch Heritage(Sylvan) can be.

[QuidEst]

Fun times! Mine aren't that great, but could add some nice flavor.

If you've got a spy character, Rakshasa bloodline is nice. It requires skill focus in disguise, which is probably handy anyhow, and you've got Cha to burn anyhow.
First off, you get a minor glibness (+5 untyped to one Bluff, 10+Sorc level check to detect falsehood with magic). Useable 3+Cha
Second, you have your choice between permanent Nondetection or Detect Thoughts as a spell-like ability (one round, full effect if they fail their Will save), useable once at 3rd and an extra time every four levels.
Finally, if you stick it out that long, permanent Alter Self at will.

Protean seems interesting. Free 1d3-round tanglefoot bags, followed by a you-centered Solid Fog that you ignore, and sticking it out gets you a combo Dimension Door/Black Tentacles. It's Battlefield Control in a Bottle. (Well, four feats.) Don't know who I'd put it with for optimization… Although it'd make for an amusing Paladin.