View Full Version : (3.5) Daemon's Seal Base Class: The Scion (WIP) PEACHing appreciated.

2012-05-08, 11:01 PM
The Scion


"By the power of your God? Let me show you MY divine power." Meran, Human Scion of Lillith.

Design Notes
1. I wanted to create a flavorful primary caster for my campaign world
2. Trying for Tier 3.... Gonna be a little bit difficult but it's my goal
3. Separated out of combat casting and in combat casting. I personally feel that a player should always have something to do in combat.
4. Not anywhere near complete but I've lost the progress so many times that I decided to post it now so that it was here.
5. This is a little bit Warlock, a little bit Divine soul, plus a couple stolen and retooled subsystems here and there.

Some study years to master magic, others give their hearts and minds to some Deity, others sacrifice their souls to nefarious powers. The Scion draws her power from her own core. She is marked by a divine being, granted a portion of that beings essence. Many have confused the Scion's for children of the God's for such is their power. In battle a Scion is frightening to behold, flinging magic around as if it were nothing. Outside of combat their glowing eyes and charming smiles often make them hard to resist.

Adventures: A Scion mostly adventures because he becomes bored with the day to day life he leads at home. His soul demands that he make a name for himself.

Characteristics: Scion's are capable warriors so long as they are behind their melee comrades. Outside of combat they are able to fill a variety of roles thanks to their revelations.

Alignment: Any.

Religion: Some Scions choose to worship their Patrons while other's choose not to worship divine powers at all. They see themselves as more god then mortal and some even attempt to amass followers.

Background: Scions are created by Divine powers. At a young age they are imbued with power by a mysterious patron. Many have made guesses as to why they are chosen but only a Scion's patron know's the truth and they sure aren't talking.

Races: Scions come from all races as each divine power chooses a scion based more on the promise of that individual then on any bearings of race.

Other Classes: Scions get along well with Melee types, better them be taking the beating then anyone touching their own divine persona. Cleric's have a tenuous relationship with Scions as many are jealous that what they commit so long to gain the Scion is given for no better reason then that they were born.

Role: A Scions role in a party varies on his Sign and Revelations choices.

Adaptation: Adaptation should be easy so long as there are Divine beings. Scions could also be reflavored as arcane casters akin to the warlock. Scions in other campaigns may clash with both Divine and Arcane casters since they have similiar abilities to arcane casters as a divine caster.

CLASS NAME's have the following game statistics.
Abilities: Charisma and wisdom are the two most important abilities for a Scion. Wisdom fuels their Signs and Charisma fuels their revelations. A scion also benefits from a high constitution score, making them a little more hardy.
Alignment: Any
Hit Die: d6
Starting Age:As Barbarian
Starting Gold: As sorcerer
Class Skills:
Appraise, Bluff, Concentration, Craft, Decipher Script, Diplomacy, Gather Information, Intimidate, Knowledge(religion), Listen, Perform, Profession, Sense Motive, Sleight of Hand, Spellcraft, Spot, Use Magic Device
Skill Points at 1st Level: (4 + Int modifier) ◊ 4
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 4 + Int modifier

{table=head]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special |
Revelations Known|
Highest Level Revelation Known|
Divine Power

1st|+0|+0|+0|+2|Mark, Least Signs, Revelations|

2nd|+1|+0|+0|+3|Bonus Feat|


4th|+2|+1|+1|+4|Divine Will|


6th|+3|+2|+2|+5|Lesser Signs|

7th|+3|+2|+2|+5|Bonus Feat|




11th|+5|+3|+3|+7|Greater Signs|

12th|+6/+1|+4|+4|+8|Bonus Feat|


14th|+7/+2|+4|+4|+9|Force of Personality|


16th|+8/+3|+5|+5|+10|Divine Signs|

17th|+8/+3|+5|+5|+10|Bonus Feat|


19th|+9/+4|+6|+6|+11|Divine Merit|

20th|+10/+5|+6|+6|+12|Mark, God Among Men|


Signs: A scion does not prepare or cast spells as other wielders of divine magic do. Instead, he possesses a repertoire of attacks and defenses known as signs that require him to focus the divine energy that suffuses his soul. A scion can use any sign he knows at will, with the following qualifications: A scion's signs are spell-like abilities; using a sign is therefore a standard action that provokes attacks of opportunity. A sign can be disrupted, just as a spell can be ruined during casting. A scion is entitled to a Concentration check to successfully use a sign if he is hit by an attack while using a sign, just as a spellcaster would be. A scion can choose to use a sign defensively, by making a successful Concentration check, to avoid provoking attacks of opportunity. A scion's signs are subject to spell resistance unless a signís description specifically states otherwise. A scionís caster level with his signs is equal to his scion level. The save DC for a sign (if it allows a save) is 10 +equivalent spell level + the scionís Charisma modifier. Since spell-like abilities are not actually spells, a scion cannot benefi t from the Spell Focus feat. He can, however, benefi t from the Ability Focus feat (see page 303 of the Monster Manual), as well as from feats that emulate metamagic effects for spell-like abilities, such as Quicken Spell-Like Ability and Empower Spell-Like Ability (see pages 303 and 304 of the Monster Manual). The four grades of signs, in order of their relative power, are least, lesser, greater, and divine. A scion begins with knowledge of one sign, which must be of the lowest grade (least). As a scion gains levels, he learns new invocations, as summarized on the table and described below. At any level when a scion learns a new invocation, he can also replace an sign he already knows with another sign of the same or a lower grade. Scions can qualify for some prestige classes usually intended for spellcasters as a warlock.


Mark:When a scion is created his patron reveals a glimpse of his destiny as a mark on his soul. This mark shows most clearly through the scions eyes. When a scion is displaying his mark his eyes are vibrant and seem to glow with an inner light. What his eyes look like depends on his mark. As a free action a scion may repress his mark but doing so limits his ability to draw on his signs, revelations, and any bonuses given by his mark. Revealing a mark is also a free action that must be taken at the beginning of his turn. Revealing a mark leaves the scion unable to do anything for the rest of his turn as he is overwhelmed by the rush of dormant power.


Mark of the Creator
Th scion given this mark is destined to create something entirely new in this world. He is attuned to the creative power of his patron.

Mark of the Destroyer
The scion given this mark is destined to be a destructive force in the world. He is attuned to the destructive nature of his patron.

Mark of the Changling
A scion given this mark finds his mortal body is not what they were destined to inhabit. He is attuned to the shifting nature of their patron.

Mark of the Dark Lord
A scion given this mark is destined to being darkness to the world. He is at one with the darkness of their patron

Mark of the Light Bringer
A scion given this mark is destined to bring Light to the world. He is attuned to the divine luminescence of his patron

Mark of the Healer
A scion given this mark is destined to be a great healer. He is attuned to the healing essence of his patron.

Bonus Feats: At every level indicated in the chart the scion gains a bonus feat. This may be a general feat or one taken from the Scion bonus feats listed below. A scion must meet all prerequisites of the feat selected as normal.

Divine Will: A scion does not flinch at the mental assaults of lesser men. At 4th level the scion may add his charisma modifier to any will save.

Force of Personality: A scion believes that they are unable to be hurt by mere mortals and at. At 14th level the scion adds his charisma modifier as a deflection bonus to his AC. He must know that the attack is coming and be able to ready his defenses. Any time he would lose his dex bonus to AC he also loses this bonus as well.

Divine Merit: At 19th level a scion is near perfect in his attunement to the divine spark within his soul. He is now treated as a Qausi-God. He gains three domains and may act as the patron deity for Clerics. His clerics are always happy to have their deity stay with them and will help their deity in any way they can. This includes travelling with him. A scion is treated as having the leadership feat if he did not already have it. He need not meet the prerequisites of this feat.

God Among Men: At 20th level the scion is in perfect attunement with his patron and the divine spark within his soul. A scion of this level is treated as either an outsider (Native) or his original race depending on which would be more beneficial at the time. A scion of this level stops aging and will never die of old age, he is also immune to death effects, death through massive damage, and any effects that would force him to age.

2012-05-08, 11:04 PM
Saved for Extra's

2012-05-08, 11:05 PM
Possible PrC/Feats

2012-05-17, 04:46 PM
Updated some things. Still trying to work with everything else. I really need idea's for those dead levels and if anything looks out of place or too breakable let me know. Have a few more idea's just trying to iron them out.

2012-05-21, 11:57 PM
You said you wanted PEACHes for this one, in the trading thread. WHich is actually pretty difficult, as there is not much there yet.

So, I'll just make a few general comments on what there is.

The general stuff is fine. I would appreciate a bit more fluff, but what is there gives a good general idea.

Signs are basically warlock casting. Which is a good basis. However, on top of that, Relevations (which currently have no text) seem to be closer to spells which, I guess, a psionic-like power point system. I am not sure how you intend to balance giving two systems of powers, especially since this has a lot of "PP" for something that has its basic combat casting already covered by at wills.

Marks: Why do you make them a free action, if they then eat up the entire turn? I must admit I don't entirely see the logic behind that, as it seems a full-round action would cover most of the same ground (make it a purely mental action that can be done in spite of things that normally inhibt taking several actions, perhaps? It seems slightly more regular to me.)

Apart from that, you don't yet really say what Marks do. Not displaying it "limits" what he can do with Signs and Revelations. Does that mean he can not use them at all (in which case I would use stronger language, like "supresses his ability to use Signs and Revelations, making them impossible to use"), or is there just some reduction of power that you have not written up yet?

The basic class features you are written up are fine for the levels you give them, but of course, the real features are the powers, as with any power using class. And since these are not there, I can not really judge the over-all balance of the class.

One exception, I think, is Divine Merit. Not so much a flaw in the class, really. This class deserves leadership, if any class does. The problem is, more, that Leadership in general is incredibly borked. Especially if you get a full (T1) caster companion, which this one seem sto imply.

Perhaps you could just give a general statement of what this class would look like when written up? What kind of powers do you intend to give to Marks, Revelations and Signs?

Note also that this class doesn't *really* have any dead levels. In my opinion, any level that gives a new level of powers already offers a huge benefit to the player, even when it is not written in the class feature table. Maybe you could slowly give it more divine-like boni? Look up what gods get in the SRD, give similar abilities to the Scion. Damage reduction might be appropriate, the warlock has that too and it's rarely ever all that powerful. A resistance (not immunity) to shape altering powers in the form of a bonus to saves might be nice: the scion's form his connected to his nature and his power, and it can not be easily changed.

2012-05-22, 03:45 PM
Alright I know this is sooo incomplete but thank you for PEACHing despite that. Basically the idea behind the abilities is this. This is my first homebrew class and well it is kind of a hard one so yeah.

Signs-As you said, primary battle casting. I wanted to make this class always relevent in a fight instead of letting him burn out his spells per day and then have not a damn thing to do at all.

Revelations- These will be somewhat ritual esque in that I plan none of them to take any less then 2 rounds. I originally had in mind to just have signs but since this is going to be the primary caster for my campaign it was needed to give the versatility that is needed from a caster in a party. I thought that the Divine points were too high but without a way to judge them other then stealing from another system I didn't know what to do there.

Marks- I basically want these to move the character towards a certain role in the party. Hence why they are broken down into multiple types. And yes it is the intention that when his mark is suppressed he loses acces to all his mark powers, his signs, and his revelations. I will make the language more strict. I'll also change it to a full round action. The reason I went with it the way I did is I wanted to represent the mark appearing immediatly but him being overwhelmed temporarily by the in rush of power. In my campaign setting scions are ill trusted due to their being marked by an unkown power. I wanted to give them a way to hide what they were but to make it so that they didn't just run around with it suppressed whenever they weren't in a fight.

As for each given mark here are my thoughts on them

Mark of the Creator
This is planned to be a summoner centric mark. With options to go down a natural route (Summon nature's ally) or a more beastial route (summon monster) The first level boon would be something small like hieghtened summoning magic or possibly bonus's to knowledge checks concerning living animals.

Mark of the Destroyer
This is planned to be a blaster type that enhances it's in combat signs. As the first level bonus it may get something akin to the warlocks eldritch blast and then gain access to modifications for that as it powers up.

Mark of the Changling
This will be the only way to gain access to shapechange tree for this class. It's not going to be on the regular tree. This includes things like alter self and such. First level boon would probably be some bonus to disguise checks as well as making it a class feature

Mark of the Dark Lord
My thought process with this one is somewhat confusing. I have thought of making this center around such things as darkness spells, taking sight from others and things like that. Basically plunging the opponent into darkness, perhaps a debuffer type niche

Mark of the Light Bringer
Buffing. No clue what first level boon would be...

Mark of the Healer
In my campaign setting clerics (Homebrewed) are not quite so great at healing so this is needed to throw in some extra healing for the party.

Divine Merit: I see your qualms about this I just felt that it fit so perfectly with what this class is. I do agree that giving him a cleric is too much (Though my campaign world's cleric is T3. Maybe I could give him some sort of messenger, which may actually fit better and be less over the top and more fluff which is most of what Divine Merit is supposed to be.)

I like your suggestion about some other class features. I thought about DR actually but didn't know wether it would be too much since I also gave him free AC. In my original write up he also had a small amount of fast healing but I lost my orginal write up. I really like the resistance to shape altering powers as it really strikes me as something this class should get.

I'll work on adding more fluff too. Thank you

2012-05-22, 06:41 PM
Alright then.

Revelations: two rounds might just barely make them still battle relevant. If you want to make them truly out of combat, I'd recommend turning that up to a minute, or so. For the points, I'd recommend a simple approach: think about how many times you want to use them per day. The average D&D day is supposed to contain four encounters, I think. So, if you assume they would use their powers about twice on the way from one encounter to the other, give them enough points to use powers of their two or three highest levels about 8 times per day.

Mark of the Creator: good. There are, I think, two problems with summoning. First, if you do it every round, you make combat incredibly tedious. Just imagine: after three rounds of battle, you have basically doubled the party if you summon a creature every turn. The other is that you have to be careful not to make the group fighters worthless with summons that are better at close combat than they are.

Mark of the Destroyer: Always a favourite.

Mark of the Changeling: may I recommend that, instead of looking at spells, you look at the druid alternate class feature in PHB II? It's widely assumed to be infinitely more balanced than either spells or wildshape. You could easily give more forms with versatility functions (flying form, swimming form, tiny burrowing scout form), or make additional forms available via spending a revelation on it.

Mark of the Dark Lord: shadows are also associated with illusions in D&D, which I personally love a lot. You could look into that.

Mark of the Light Bringer: Light powers are pretty obvious for this one. Make lights, banish darkness, turn shadow creatures away. Then the metaphorical implications of light: Prometheus, Lucifer, Phoenix. Civilisation, truth, warmth, life.

Mark of hte Healer: always difficult. This really has the problem that just healing means you are basically limited to only reacting to enemies and have no proactive powers on your own, and that you can barely affect enemies or the environment anyway. Maybe consider merging that one with the Light Bringer?

Divine Merit: a messenger isan interesting idea. Maybe some kind of mostly intangible angel (not in the D&D sense, in the sense of "Divine Messenger") that can carry messages, magical effects and some kind of aura effect for the Scion?

2012-05-24, 06:17 PM
Alright I think there was a little bit of confusion with the marks. They do not pigeon hole you into one area. They are instead there to augment your power more towards that area. For instance a scion with the mark of the destroyer could not heal but he would still be able to use illusions and things like that but he would be awesome at blasting things apart. It's meant to be somewhat like a wizard specializing. For the Changling I like your idea for using a variation of the Druid ACF, though I still may throw in an alter self with type restrictions for those who want to be stealthy. I also like the idea of synergizing the revelations to the marks, making it so that some revelations could be used to highten the power of certain mark abilities.

I like your suggestion for Dark Lord. I'll make him more of an illusionist. I thought about pulling revelations and giving the utility only through the marks but then there would be a huge problem for if a player chose the wrong mark for what he needed in the beggining of the game and now can't do much. It would be especially rough on small groups, taking alot away from their resources due to having an overly specialized caster.

2012-05-24, 07:09 PM
I would suggest staying away from Alter Self, really, it is that versatile. Perhaps add a way to just Disguise Self, but as a true changing effect? Bit like Eberron's Changeling.