Clockwork Armor stats?

[Venger]

So, we're all familiar with this little gem (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/cw/20070212a) and I did get down to the part with its numbers. I was just curious if it specified an ACP anyplace, or if you treated it as generic "heavy armor" with a -6 base. the question at this point is, is the armor considered +x armor since it's so magical? is it considered at least masterwork to lessen the ACP? if not, how do we know this? I figure the omission's just a typo, like the cost to craft where they swapped in an 8 for a 3, but that's easily explained, unlike being able to guess the armor check penalty

[DemonRoach]

I've always considered it to be completely mundane, it's all mechanical rather than magic.

It doesn't appear to specify a penalty anywhere, it being an oddity for armour I'd assume it would only get situational penalties (i.e. Given it makes you faster and stronger, it would in fact boost jumping by those degrees. For swimming up you'd be screwed)

[Venger]

I've always considered it to be completely mundane, it's all mechanical rather than magic.

It doesn't appear to specify a penalty anywhere, it being an oddity for armour I'd assume it would only get situational penalties (i.e. Given it makes you faster and stronger, it would in fact boost jumping by those degrees. For swimming up you'd be screwed)

well, yeah, see, that's what I was wondering about. does it not have an ACP? it mentions that the armor "supports most of its own weight" so that would make a certain amount of sense, but I"m not sure

[Slipperychicken]

It looks like the fluff describes the armor as actually increasing your dexterity and movement, so I can see why there isn't an ACP for "proper" use. And it only mentions an ACP (-8) and ASF (90%) when you aren't proficient.

That seems reasonable to me, since it's also hideously expensive and has several other drawbacks, like being a) a legal target for sundering and b) frozen by cold damage. Honestly, the amount you'd have to spend spend to get Fullplate ACP and ASF down to zero looks like roughly the cost of this armor.

[Aeryr]

Maybe you can make it with Aurorum, and get some way to be immune to cold, to compensate most of its drawbacks.

As I see it it doesn't have ACP unless you cannot use heavy amor.

[Anxe]

There appears to be no official check penalty for those who are proficient with it. I agree that deciding the check penalty based on which skill is used makes a lot of sense. The armor still effectively weighs 70 pounds so thats going to get in the way somewhat.

Check penalty goes to Balance, Climb, Escape Artist, Hide, Jump, Move Silently, Sleight of Hand, Tumble, and double to Swim.

I feel a -4 to -6 base penalty is appropriate. This should probably apply to balance, escape artist, hide, move silently, sleight of hand, tumble, and double to swim. I feel there should be no such penalty to climb or jump. The bonuses from strength and speed should still apply to those skills.

You could argue that it the penalty doesn't apply to the Dex based skills due to its "increased precision," but I wouldn't buy that if I was DMing.

[Otomodachi]

So, we're all familiar with this little gem (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/cw/20070212a) and I did get down to the part with its numbers. I was just curious if it specified an ACP anyplace, or if you treated it as generic "heavy armor" with a -6 base. the question at this point is, is the armor considered +x armor since it's so magical? is it considered at least masterwork to lessen the ACP? if not, how do we know this? I figure the omission's just a typo, like the cost to craft where they swapped in an 8 for a 3, but that's easily explained, unlike being able to guess the armor check penalty

I was actually unfamiliar with this, so thanks for the interesting link!

Personally, I find it intensely frustrating that this armour was designed to be obviously magical (DemonRoach, I'd be of the same opinion as you except it specifically has a CL requirement to craft and uses CMA&A) and yet doesn't mention anything about how it relates to the system to making magical items.

Is the listed cost the cost to apply this to a suit of heavy armour? Is it like adding 'Silent Moves' where that is a flat fee separate from +x bonuses? Does this mean it derives it's normal ACP and ACF from that base armour?

I would personally treat it as a one-time fee like silent moves and say that it has the ACP and ACF of full plate. Probably just say 'hey, dummies, it only can be applied to fullplate cuz it's a fricking suit of clockwork armour.'

EDIT: Also, in the fluff text on the link... is Ragdar the hobo version of Regdar?

[KicktheCAN]

it specifically has a CL requirement to craft

It does not have a caster level requirement to craft. That is the caster level of the item.

[Slipperychicken]

Is the listed cost the cost to apply this to a suit of heavy armour?

Clockwork Armor is a specific item, like a Mithral Full Plate of Speed. I don't think there are rules for upgrading or creating specific items with additional boni or enchantments, since I've searched long and hard and found none.

For the Clockwork Armor, it seems to me like "applying" the characteristics is a reasonable houserule, since it comes with a set of drawbacks and is almost 30k anyway. Alternatively, save yourself a bunch of money by taking a normal set of fullplate and saying "My fullplate now has clockwork fluff. It's composed of a mess of bronze/gold gears, pulleys, and levers".

[Venger]

I was actually unfamiliar with this, so thanks for the interesting link!

Personally, I find it intensely frustrating that this armour was designed to be obviously magical (DemonRoach, I'd be of the same opinion as you except it specifically has a CL requirement to craft and uses CMA&A) and yet doesn't mention anything about how it relates to the system to making magical items.

Is the listed cost the cost to apply this to a suit of heavy armour? Is it like adding 'Silent Moves' where that is a flat fee separate from +x bonuses? Does this mean it derives it's normal ACP and ACF from that base armour?

I would personally treat it as a one-time fee like silent moves and say that it has the ACP and ACF of full plate. Probably just say 'hey, dummies, it only can be applied to fullplate cuz it's a fricking suit of clockwork armour.'

EDIT: Also, in the fluff text on the link... is Ragdar the hobo version of Regdar?
you're quite welcome!

yeah, that was kind of what my question was about.

lol. welp, since "ragdar" is apparently a fighter and is talking to mialee, I think that it's just more glorious typos from the fine author of this piece (2 in one rather short page is kind of embarassing, along with the problems that brought me here, even if it is a fun idea)

I would agree that it's like "silent moves" and can be applied to a pre-exsiting armor, except this has its own unique AC bonus, a +8 armor bonus to AC, so I don't think that works being layered over a preexisting, say, +1 full plate (would AC go to +17? would it be coopted and turned to +8? would stacking/overlapping rules apply and only the +9 apply? if so, what would be a fair price for this armor sans armor bonus, since the AC part in this instance is worthless and this item is already grotesquely overpriced