Tiers by level help

[killianh]

I understand that the tier system is based on power and versatility and that it's generally accepted as pretty valid system for ranking base classes. That said though I find that at some of the lower levels the power and versatility of the tiers seems to shift a fair bit.

A third level rogue and third level wizard for example. Wizard is a tier one yet won't be able to keep up with the rogue for versatility in the party due to a general lack of spells and spell uses. Damage wise too the rogue can feign and the like and use sneak attack every other round if he's successful where as the wizard simple runs out of viable options if so many rounds pass.

Before I see posts saying I don't understand the point or ideas of the tier system I do understand them, but I find that at lower levels of play the same rules do not apply to the same degree as the system proposes.

So fellow playgrounders: what would be your suggestions for moving the tiers around for low level play, and at what level does the tier list end up generally being true?

[Cicciograna]

This (good) question has already been addressed in the past, and one of the best answers was this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12538264&postcount=57), complete with a class-by-class analysis; it's a pity that the author limited himself to Core classes only, because this list is a great piece of insight, and it would have been even greater if non-Core classes were included.

[Pilo]

Well the tier system judge the versatility of a class and the easiness of how it can break the game.

First level:
The rogue it an enemy, say goodbye to the ennemy, a wizard/sorcerer cast Color spray, silent image or Sleep, say goodbye to the encounter, if undead encounter, the cleric use turn undead, say goodbye to the encounter. in case of animals, use druid, say hello to the newly improved party.

Need to steal something small? The rogue try hide+silent move+ sleight of hand skill check. The fighter can't do anything. The wizard/sorcerer/bard use mage hand. The druid ask a rat to do it for him.

[Killer Angel]

A third level rogue and third level wizard for example. Wizard is a tier one yet won't be able to keep up with the rogue for versatility in the party due to a general lack of spells and spell uses. Damage wise too the rogue can feign and the like and use sneak attack every other round if he's successful where as the wizard simple runs out of viable options if so many rounds pass.


Well, a 3rd lev. wizard will probably have 7 spells. Of course he must be careful in the selection and he shouldn't waste them, but they're not so few and I don't think he will lack versatility.
The rogue got useful skills, but at third level he must pay attention to traps, and entering in combat is dangerous... especially if some enemy targets the rogue.
Of course, the wizard cannot replace its spells, while a hurt rogue can be cured, but this draw resources from the healer (assuming there is one).

Basically, casters have few spells, but the non-casters lack in HP, so their effectiveness can be very limited.

[LordBlades]

Most high tiers remain high tier even at level 1.

Druid? he's got a class feature that's roughly on par with 80% of non casters at level 1 (riding dog). The dog can frontline as easy as an average fighter, and the druid stands back using Entangle when needed.

Wizard? even at level 1 a Focused Specialist has 4-5 level 1 spells, which means he can contribute with at least 1 spell per encounter, excluding cantrips. It's somewhat harder for more average wizards to dominate every encounter, due to only having 2-3 1st level spells though.

Cleric? level 1 Cleric spells aren't anything to write home about (not Color Spray and Entangle level of awesomeness in any case), but in the end you're only 2 HP and 1 BAB behind a fighter at this level, and for that you've got to show a much better Will save, some decent spells and 2 domain powers. Not awesome, but not bad by any means.

[Gwendol]

The tiers are there from the start, with the possible exception of "partial" casters such as bards.

Remember, the tiers can essentially be described by two relations:

Magic > no magic
SAD > MAD

If you manage to hit both, you're golden :-)