lets build cthulhu!

[killianh]

I was looking through some of the call of cthulhu books and have been searching for stats for cthulhu and found some ok stuff in that regard, but what I was wondering if if simply using standard D&D rules and not just advancing monster hit die to the point of ridiculous what would be a way to build such a monstrosity?

I'm thinking an advance ulithid, elder brain psionics, and some elder evil powers attached with a butt ton of templates, level dips, etc.

What would you specifically use to build the mighty cthulhu, and what CR would you place him at?

P.S. I understand they are suppose to be beyond the scope of human power and understanding, but so is a wizard able to level a city with a quick hand motion or make their own plane of existence so there ought to be a way to make this happen.

[Alleran]

Personally, I feel that assigning a statblock to Cthulhu (along with most of Lovecraft's work, but particularly the Outer Gods) defeats the very purpose of him. It's not a question of power or the ability to destroy a city with a gesture, it's a question of understanding, an alien nature that a mortal mind can't comprehend.

[Telonius]

"Power beyond the scope of human understanding" isn't the hard part. That, we can model. The hard part is, "If it has stats, we can kill it." We being an embarrassingly-low-level opponent with magic. Much like Ao or the Lady of Pain, Cthulhu is best left unstatted.

However, if I were forced to stat him out...

Wizard30/Cleric30/Psion30/Tainted Scholar10, Divine Rank 50-ish. CR: LOL.

[Cespenar]

Though the "human" in "beyond human understanding" really speaks of a level 1 to 6 character with a NPC class and around a 18 Int at best. A high level wizard regularly sees and does things that are impossible for an "ordinary" to understand. Not to mention having an Intelligence score around 30s.

Now, if you were to mention some of the Outer Gods instead, then that would be "beyond understanding". And I'm still not sure on that.

[Ashtagon]

Cthulhu's stat block has only one line...

"Kills 1d6 PCs per round."

[CodeRed]

Well apparently he can be defeated by crashing a boat into his face. So I'd at least include some large amount of DR/boat.

But yeah, his stats, as all gods' should be, are arbitrary. Trying to put him on paper limits it way too much. I'd much rather stick with handwaving his powers as the Elder God he is in a game I'd run.

[zimmerwald1915]

Well apparently he can be defeated by crashing a boat into his face. So I'd at least include some large amount of DR/boat.
Clearly the boat in question was made of cold iron and the puny earthlings simply had no idea.

[Cwymbran-San]

Cthulhu's stat block has only one line...

"Kills 1d6 PCs per round."

Should'nt that rather be "Eats 1D6 PCs per round."?

[Man on Fire]

It's been done. (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/article.asp?x=dnd/dx20020329x)

[NichG]

In some sense I don't think I'd mind Cthulhu having stats/being killable nearly as much as e.g. Ao or the Lady of Pain. Cthulhu isn't one of the biggest things of the Lovecraft setting anyhow, he's just iconic of it. Still, keeping with the scale of the setting (one of the creatures is made of universes, etc), he should be pretty impressive.

Lets start with some core effects to capture the characteristic attributes. The madness thing we can do by giving him Divine Splendor, but with an irresistable/un-immunizable Insanity effect instead of just death. This sets his Divine Rank to be at least 16.

I think adding a variant of Irresistable Performance would be amusing too, with the various effects re-themed in terms of the insanities they create. Divine Inspiration is also thematic, if a bit weak for an SDA. Divine Battle Mastery combined with ridiculous size and reach extenders captures the 'Kill 1d6 PCs per round' aspect. Control Creatures (Humans) works well for the tendency of cults to form. Don't bother giving Cthulhu PC classes, thats too mundane. Just give him Alter Reality. And honestly, that should about do it for the SDAs.

Now, the weird stuff. I'd suggest grabbing a few thematic (as opposed to high-numbers-ridiculous) stuff from the Immortals Handbook. Specifically, those things related to interactions with time travel and kill-difficulty.

- The 'Elder Ones' in Immortals handbook have something called 'Cosmic String' which basically means they can only be permanently killed by gods of equal or higher rank, or by one special weakness. That solves the death by embarassingly low level PCs problem, and also gives way for plot hooks to bypass the limit; its also roughly how gods in 4ed are fought, so there's precedent.

- There's an ability called 'Slipstream' which basically makes you immune to being edited out of time. It's basically a prereq for any surviving Lovecraftian being with enemies since otherwise they'd've already lost. It also makes you immune to things like Slow, Temporal Stasis, and even lets you act in a Time Stop.

And thats probably all we need from Immortals Handbook.

You can then put pretty much anything you want on top of that chassis, but I'd say those are the core relevant abilities.

[pilvento]

Its totally posible, the ghostbusters killed him by leading him into some electric wires in a rolercoaster.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uaVvKP-bPIo

nuff said

[Slipperychicken]

Here's a quote from a recent Far Realms thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=242336), which I think is relevant for explaining why a being like Cthulhu would defy statting. Basically, that they simply bend the laws of reality into a pretzel, munch on it for a few billion years, then spit it back out into your face with lethal force.



Far Realms entities have Banana hit points and purple AC, attack at +hysterical for fish/zero damage, and add maybe to all their saving throws. A Far Realms being intruding into the Prime Material might be forced to take on some manner of coherent shape, enough to at least to have stats and be killed - in its home plane, though, it should be close to impossible to even realize one is under attack, let alone how or by what, without a way to 'synch' the target's mind with the alien reality.

A Wizard might be able to bend or break some laws here and there, but he does so ultimately within the framework of the rules given to him. A being of insanity, on the other hand (which exists entirely outside of time, space, and reality) absolutely does not conform to anything, and especially not the rules to which the rest of the universe is subject.

[Roguenewb]

IIRC (no books at the moment), the stat block in the back of CoC for cthulhu is almost unbeatable anyway.... Though a full Op level 20 wizard might be able to handle it.

Ooookay: I'm going to try to find that book, who wants to try to solo Cthulhu with a level 20 wizard? sounds like the best fight ever.

[panaikhan]

He isn't statted in D20 CoC? I'm away from my books atm.

[Ravens_cry]

CR: You get . . .Nothing!
You. Lose!
Good Day, Sir! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKG07305CBs)
***
Well, we're done here.
Seriously, if it is given stats, that just encourages players to find ways to kill it.

[Alleran]

He isn't statted in D20 CoC? I'm away from my books atm.
He is.

(Ten character requirement.)

[Eldan]

We don't know much about Cthulhu. What we do know, in D&D stats:

-He does ,likely, not die from old age, as being underwater for millions of years did not kill him.
-Ramming a boat into him does not kill him, but does deal some damage, as he apparently fast heals or regenerates from it.
-His awakening causes strange dreams in some people. Could be an ability he has himself, or just an effect connected to him, i.e. by some machine or curse on R'lyeh.
-Seems to have collossal+ size.
-Probably more powerful than a human.
-Not a very fast swimmer, as a boat almost got away from him.

Apart from that? I'd say anything between a 12HD Aberration, a 40 HD outsider or something far beyond the gods. We can't say.

Do we know Cthulhu's Strenght score? His Intelligence? Does he actually have any supernatural powers? Does just seeing him drive you insane?

Fact is, while the internet and he various RPGs like making him super-powerful, we simply have no idea.

[Ravens_cry]

Well, we must consider his place in the stories. Unless you're trying to make a game where cosmic forces are brought to heel by ultra-powerful heroes, he is meant to be something beyond human understanding. Even his famous "Green Squid-face with wings" appearance is but one depiction, he has been described in other ways as well.

[Marlowe]

Hardly a major issue, but some difficulty with catching a 1920s steamer with a speed of maybe 10-15 knots just means his swimming speed is "around" 10-15 knots. That's still pretty fast in D&D terms.

Yes, I know 25-35 knots would be more right for a warship of the period, but we're aren't talking of a warship.

[killianh]

I've only seen a few posts that were actually build related :smallfrown: but thank you for the ideas from the other posters thus far (especially the immortals handbook info)

but for people saying that it can't be done: Work off of the idea that a) if it has a physical form in the material world it can be wounded. b) if it can be wounded in D&D then it can be killed or at least sealed. c) Cthulhu is not a divine being because there are no true divine beings in the lovecraft universe, so he is an elder evil.

What I have so far is a Colossal + aberration that is an elder evil.
all powers are supernatural or extraordinary as they are a part of cthulhu's nature (oxymoron?).
some powers would be plane shift, non-euclidean form (granting deflection), If seen provokes will save or cultist insanity (like confusion, but either suicide or aid cthulhu)

Another note for some of the nay sayers is that, like most elder evils, they can only really be defeated when they are in a form of awakening and haven't recharged to full strength or are mere aspects due to such beings not being able to exist in our world (yet). So this doesn't need to be the High priest himself, but rather an awakening one, thus something that can be fought.

Deities and demigods have stats for the god of madness, so Cthulhu ought to be possible

[Ravens_cry]

Its totally posible, the ghostbusters killed him by leading him into some electric wires in a rolercoaster.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uaVvKP-bPIo

nuff said
They didn't kill him; they just did what the steamer did: Delay his fully forming until the stars were wrong.

[Stabbald]

People seem to overestimate the power of Cthulhu. He isn't even the most powerful old one.

Hell, the dude was annihilated by a steam ship. Sure he was pulling himself together, but that just means he has regeneration.

Personally I'd stat him out as a colossal tarrasque with some caster levels.

[Harry]

I have a idea why not make Him a living spell and choose weird and insanity that should allow him to make humans die from his presence due to being freckled out and he's not immune to being hit by a Boat :smallsmile: and yea I have to agree Cthulhu is a small frie in the mythos the 2 big dogs are azathoth who has unlimited power but is a Iditot and yog-sothoth who has night-unlimited power and knows all knowledge and is the size of a frecking universe

[Prime32]

People seem to overestimate the power of Cthulhu. He isn't even the most powerful old one.

Hell, the dude was annihilated by a steam ship. Sure he was pulling himself together, but that just means he has regeneration.Plus, while that was happening it wasn't driving everyone mad. And that's saying something, since some of Lovecraft's characters have gone mad from learning college-level math or that they're descended from apes. There's also a story where scientists capture Cthulhu's "daughter" and experiment on her for a long time without going mad.

As said, the steamboat did enormous damage (IIRC his entire head was destroyed). He regenerated from it, but D&D characters have means to overcome regeneration.



Its totally posible, the ghostbusters killed him by leading him into some electric wires in a rolercoaster.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uaVvKP-bPIo

nuff saidHe also gets killed pretty quickly in Fate/Zero. Bonus points for this happening despite the author (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gen_Urobuchi)'s style being heavily influenced by Lovecraft.

And then there's Justice League, where Hawkgirl kills him by smashing an antimagic mace into his brain.

[hamishspence]

Cthulhu is a small frie in the mythos the 2 big dogs are azathoth who has unlimited power but is a Iditot and yog-sothoth who has night-unlimited power and knows all knowledge and is the size of a frecking universe

There's others- the "soul and messenger" of the Outer Gods- Nyarlathothep the Crawling Chaos, for example.

[CTrees]

Isn't Call of Cthulhu (the story, not the game) modeled basically perfectly by the way Elder Evils progress? Signs, their time to arrive and end the world coming "eventually," etc.

Anyway, I don't mind Cthulhu being statted and killable. Azathoth and one or two others? THOSE shouldn't be statted.

EDIT:
There's others- the "soul and messenger" of the Outer Gods- Nyarlathothep the Crawling Chaos, for example.

and possibly Hastur, though sometimes he's written as a mix of Candlejack and Beetleju

[hamishspence]

That's actually a very good way of looking at it.

Maybe use that as a prototype for a CoC adventure- create a sign (dreams, in particular) and have a climatic showdown on the risen island.

Hmm- what Elder Evil powers would be appropriate?

[Aharon]

In Cthulhu d20, he has 42 hd and is a demigod with spell-likes and CL 40.
He also has access to the spells published in this book, which includes niceties like Time Gate, a spell that allows time travel, up to 10 quadrillion years in each direction. He can also Gate in stuff 1/day, and call other elder gods to his help via a gate variant that targets elder gods and has a specific % chance that they answer(theoretically... this is something that wouldn't happen from a mythos perspective).

The other spell-likes are lackluster compared to standard D&D, but this alone is quite powerful.

[Eldan]

The problem I have with Cthulhu d20 and a few other games: there is no basis whatsoever in Lovecrafts actual writing for making Cthulhu that powerful. He never cast any spell. I'd say the best he did was a vague equivalent of SpCs Dreamcasting.

[animewatcha]

I don't know elder gods/evils stat much, but what is to keep from being ray of stupidity spammed if a boat can get away from it?

[Tvtyrant]

I honestly think he is dead. The whole line about "even death can die" and all that. So I would make him a Neh-Thalggu Ghost, which always comes back. So when the ship smashes him, it kills him, but he simply reconstitutes.

[Shadowknight12]

My first thought when reading the title of this thread:

"NO! LET US NOT BUILD CTHULHU!"

[Prime32]

The problem I have with Cthulhu d20 and a few other games: there is no basis whatsoever in Lovecrafts actual writing for making Cthulhu that powerful. He never cast any spell. I'd say the best he did was a vague equivalent of SpCs Dreamcasting.Lovecraft: Entities like Cthulhu don't even notice you. Some people go mad when they see such vast alien beings and realise how unimportant humans are in the grand scheme of things, while others are unfazed or even react positively.
RPGs: Cthulhu's goal is to scare humans into submission, which he does by attacking them with a psychic power called "The Call" that cannot be stopped or resisted by any means.

What. :smallconfused:

[killianh]

For what we know of Cthulhu we that he has wings (not sure if he can fly) face tentacles, massive amounts of STR, CON, and CHA (due to the power of the call I'm assuming it would be high) vastly alien INT so not sure if that could be a viable stat for him, low DEX (due to being able to be touched by a boat) and uncertain WIS

Powers we've seen are the Call, regeneration, and Non euclidean form. Rest is really unknown as per lovecraft's statements on the matter

[Man on Fire]

You know why building Cthulhu is a bad idea? Because you will have to give him physical body and a definitive one. And some of us aren't fans of His usual potrayal (http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_nE0S8RkkHEU/TA9sm0Pg9bI/AAAAAAAAAMA/36sILlNYAxI/s1600/cthulhu2.jpg) and preffer (http://lovecraft1890.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/cthulhu_800.jpg) more (http://i.pinger.pl/pgr22/138813bc0022c2154bb5d143/CTHULHU-cielo.jpg) creative (http://fc04.deviantart.net/fs48/f/2009/191/7/d/Cthulhu_commission_part2__by_korintic.jpg) visions (http://cacodaemonia.deviantart.com/art/Cthulhu-is-Coming-to-Town-154151126) than (http://cacodaemonia.deviantart.com/art/Cthulhu-is-Coming-to-Town-154151126) that (http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-KE0bIejyAz8/TZtE1qIQRKI/AAAAAAAAAIw/HlRYLDeVffo/s1600/Godzilla-Vs-Cthulhu5.jpg) one (http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/569/cthulhulg.jpg), seriously (http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_y5Nq3fFmj7A/S8GITErIDgI/AAAAAAAAALw/TkdO4MTNUkk/s1600/The+Rise+of+Cthulhu+complete2010.3small.jpg) people (http://a403.idata.over-blog.com/473x389/0/40/77/08/cthulhu/sota-cthulhu-2.jpg).

[Slipperychicken]

My first thought when reading the title of this thread:

"NO! LET US NOT BUILD CTHULHU!"

+1 to this. You aren't supposed to beat it, especially in a straight-up fight. You can't even perceive it without being permanently traumatized. That guy who rammed it with a steamboat? He was a gibbering mess for the rest of his life (pretty sure he killed himself). Hell, just living on the same planet gives you nightmares.

[Baphomet]

Something possibly worth some thought: we are all basically level 1 commoners, as were most of the people in Lovecraft's books. To a level 1 commoner, especially with nothing to compare him/herself to besides other level 1 commoners, any sufficiently dangerous monster is the equivalent of an unbeatable dark god. Cthulhu might be as low as CR 10 or so, but as far as we're concerned anything over CR 2 might as well be a god.

[Roguenewb]

Something possibly worth some thought: we are all basically level 1 commoners, as were most of the people in Lovecraft's books. To a level 1 commoner, especially with nothing to compare him/herself to besides other level 1 commoners, any sufficiently dangerous monster is the equivalent of an unbeatable dark god. Cthulhu might be as low as CR 10 or so, but as far as we're concerned anything over CR 2 might as well be a god.

Hell, CR 1/4ths destroy us. But honestly, the things that level 20 full TO wizards are capable of.... frankly, unless it has SDAs, why should I care? Build a variant of the Mailman, who knows Planeshift and bought a scroll of genesis once. Win Inititative, or celerity if you don't, cast Time Stop, place Twinnimaxed Piranha jaws thing, Planeshift to 10000000000x plane. Refill spells, planeshift BACK INTO YOUR TIME STOP, quicken jaws of death, planeshift, and you should be able to stack up infinite jaws on him, then let your turn start, and he dies. Less than one objective round. Done. What else you got?

Edit: For the lolz, set up millions of searing spell delayed blast fireballs. Then, when you planeshift back in the last time and drop the time stop, put on sunglasses, and ready an action to walk away slowly while millions of explosions shred Cthulhu. Cool guys don't look at explosions....

[Starbuck_II]

In Cthulhu d20, he has 42 hd and is a demigod with spell-likes and CL 40.
He also has access to the spells published in this book, which includes niceties like Time Gate, a spell that allows time travel, up to 10 quadrillion years in each direction. He can also Gate in stuff 1/day, and call other elder gods to his help via a gate variant that targets elder gods and has a specific % chance that they answer(theoretically... this is something that wouldn't happen from a mythos perspective).

The other spell-likes are lackluster compared to standard D&D, but this alone is quite powerful.

Time Gate is only useful because he gets to ignore the requirements (cheating). It causes Permanent damage to str based on how far you go back, if he were paying the cost it would make more sense why he never uses it.
Really, his most dangerous aspect is grapple effects causes a save each round. Freedom of movement means he is beatable (if he doesn't dispel).

[Aharon]

Well, he does have some other tricks up his sleeve.... The CoC d20 version of Dominate Person doesn't have the [mind-affecting] tag, for example.

Characters build by the rules in this book have next to no chance against him.

[wayfare]

I think all of these are great thoughts, and really highlight one of the more interesting aspects of D&D play.

In something like Call of Cthulhu and d20 Modern, Cthulhu can probably be given a body and just some really high stats (as it is assumed most players wont cap 10). Take the tarrasque, give it the psionic progression of a 18th level Telepath psion, watch its CR rocket up to 30, and you get your cthulhu.

If you are setting this in D&D, then you've got some problems. You can either stat cthulhu up as an elder evil with omen weather and celestial portents, or you can make him a bonafied god. My inclination is to go with the latter, and make the outer gods the equivalent of Powers in the D&D verse (gods are beings, Azathoth is an event/continuum/powersource).

[Man on Fire]

Hell, CR 1/4ths destroy us. But honestly, the things that level 20 full TO wizards are capable of.... frankly, unless it has SDAs, why should I care? Build a variant of the Mailman, who knows Planeshift and bought a scroll of genesis once. Win Inititative, or celerity if you don't, cast Time Stop, place Twinnimaxed Piranha jaws thing, Planeshift to 10000000000x plane. Refill spells, planeshift BACK INTO YOUR TIME STOP, quicken jaws of death, planeshift, and you should be able to stack up infinite jaws on him, then let your turn start, and he dies. Less than one objective round. Done. What else you got?

Edit: For the lolz, set up millions of searing spell delayed blast fireballs. Then, when you planeshift back in the last time and drop the time stop, put on sunglasses, and ready an action to walk away slowly while millions of explosions shred Cthulhu. Cool guys don't look at explosions....

I must now envoke my own personal rule:
Any stance deended with an argument "In 3.5 everybody must get down on their knees and suck wizard's weiner" is not worth arguing about. Therefore I don't see a reason to continue this discussion.

[wayfare]

TO is not the route 99% of gamers go. Sure, you can be a a god by level 20, but most folks don't want to put that much thought into their character.

[Slipperychicken]

TO is not the route 99% of gamers go. Sure, you can be a a god by level 20, but most folks don't want to put that much thought into their character.

You can be a god by level 1, too. It's more that playing that unstoppable monster usually isn't fun, unless you both a) enjoy being a part-time Character Accountant and b) have a GM who can still challenge your character (whether mechanically socially, crazier wizards, etc).

[Eldan]

+1 to this. You aren't supposed to beat it, especially in a straight-up fight. You can't even perceive it without being permanently traumatized. That guy who rammed it with a steamboat? He was a gibbering mess for the rest of his life (pretty sure he killed himself). Hell, just living on the same planet gives you nightmares.

No, he isn't. He gives a fairly accurate account of what happened, even though he is disturbed by it. And that is after being in a small boat out in the ocean for weeks, with only his friend's corpse and no food or water.

After looking at Cthulhu, he was still pretty reasonable for a while, and came up with a good plan for running away.

There are a few people that instantly snap after seeing something in Lovecraft, but that guy wasn't one of them.

[Crasical]

Stats for Cthulu.


Size/Type: Tiny Outsider (Chaotic, Extraplanar, Evil)
Hit Dice: 3d8 (13 hp)
Initiative: +7
Speed: 20 ft. (4 squares), fly 50 ft. (perfect)
Armor Class:18 (+2 size, +3 Dex, +3 natural), touch 15, flat-footed 15
Base Attack/Grapple: +3/-6
Attack: Claw +8 melee (1d3-1 plus poison)
Full Attack: 2 claws +8 melee (1d3-1 plus poison) and bite +3 melee (1d4-1)
Space/Reach: 2½ ft./0 ft.
Special Attacks: Poison, spell-like abilities, true strike
Special Qualities: Alternate form, damage reduction 5/cold iron or good, darkvision 60 ft., fast healing 2, immunity to poison, resistance to fire 10, resistance to acid/electricity 5, spell resistance 13
Saves: Fort +3, Ref +6, Will +4
Abilities: Str 8, Dex 17, Con 10, Int 10, Wis 12, Cha 10
Skills: Bluff +6, Diplomacy +2, Disguise +0 (+2 acting), Hide +17, Intimidate +2, Knowledge (any one) +6, Listen +7, Move Silently +9, Search +6, Spellcraft +6, Spot +6
Feats: Improved Initiative, Weapon Finesse
Environment: A chaotic evil-aligned plane
Organization: Solitary
Challenge Rating: 2
Treasure: None
Alignment: Always chaotic evil
Advancement: 4-6 HD (Tiny)
Level Adjustment: — (Improved Familiar)

It's a psuedonatural imp. About the right size and shape for one of those plushie dolls of Cthulu you see for sale at FLGS.

[Eldan]

And if it was to fight against the average human, pretty damn scary :smalltongue:

[Stabbald]

+1 to this. You aren't supposed to beat it, especially in a straight-up fight. You can't even perceive it without being permanently traumatized. That guy who rammed it with a steamboat? He was a gibbering mess for the rest of his life (pretty sure he killed himself). Hell, just living on the same planet gives you nightmares.

You realise that the only reason people snap in lovecraft's stories is because it's an alien thing beyond their comprehension right? That and the stories are mostly about average Joes, not heroes.

In a D&D world where magic and monsters are the norm, he isn't nearly alien enough to drive people nuts just by showing up.

[Calanon]

You realise that the only reason people snap in lovecraft's stories is because it's an alien thing beyond their comprehension right? That and the stories are mostly about average Joes, not heroes.

In a D&D world where magic and monsters are the norm, he isn't nearly alien enough to drive people nuts just by showing up.

The Wizard calmly sat at his table sipping tea while reading through his spellbook, in the background you could hear explosions but this did not bother him in the slightest, the screaming eventually become to much for the man and he closed his book stating "Enough is enough! I have had it with these mother ****ing Elder Gods, On this mother ****ing plane" He quickly rose to take a stance against the fierce Cthulhu and he stretched out his hand whispering to himself "Locate City Bomb"... and in an instant the entire city erupted into a dreaded storm of negative energy killing all the inhabitants... spare the Great Cthulhu... he laughed at the Wizard declaring him a fool and ordering him to kneel before his great might... The Wizard smiled and stared at the beast as an army of white pasty skinned creatures emerged from the ruins and swarmed around the great Cthulhu... "Attack" ordered the Wizard and the creatures followed... and the great Cthulhu, was no more...

Lets take a look at the Wizard in this story, He has fought dragons, slayed beholders, crushed the tarrasque, and even bedded with Gods and Goddesses on a daily basis. Cthulhu doesn't scare him on his worst day.

However the Cthulhu in this story did not possess a Divine Rank... that would have greatly changed it :smallwink:

EDIT: If i saw a Phaerimm (http://images.wikia.com/forgottenrealms/images/6/64/Phaerimm.jpg) in real life, I'd probably **** myself from fear... Lets face it, we are all level 1 commoners. 95% of the things in the monster manuals would warp our minds to near insanity due to years of telling ourselves that "These creatures don't exist"

[Scots Dragon]

Lets take a look at the Wizard in this story, He has fought dragons, slayed beholders, crushed the tarrasque, and even bedded with Gods and Goddesses on a daily basis. Cthulhu doesn't scare him on his worst day.

Elminster's played by Samuel L. Jackson in your interpretation, then?

[Amiel]

I was looking through some of the call of cthulhu books and have been searching for stats for cthulhu and found some ok stuff in that regard, but what I was wondering if if simply using standard D&D rules and not just advancing monster hit die to the point of ridiculous what would be a way to build such a monstrosity?

I'm thinking an advance ulithid, elder brain psionics, and some elder evil powers attached with a butt ton of templates, level dips, etc.

What would you specifically use to build the mighty cthulhu, and what CR would you place him at?

P.S. I understand they are suppose to be beyond the scope of human power and understanding, but so is a wizard able to level a city with a quick hand motion or make their own plane of existence so there ought to be a way to make this happen.

I've made an attempt at it (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=243307) ::)

[Crasical]

If i saw a Phaerimm (http://images.wikia.com/forgottenrealms/images/6/64/Phaerimm.jpg) in real life, I'd probably **** myself from fear... Lets face it, we are all level 1 commoners. 95% of the things in the monster manuals would warp our minds to near insanity due to years of telling ourselves that "These creatures don't exist"

I think most of us posting on the forum are more like Experts, really. More skill points, better proficiencies.

[Calanon]

I think most of us posting on the forum are more like Experts, really. More skill points, better proficiencies.

Lol, I enjoy the idea that we are all level 1 Generic Classes (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/genericClasses.htm) :smalltongue:


Elminster's played by Samuel L. Jackson in your interpretation, then?

Nah, Elminster would have charged out at Cthulhu like an idiot and started popping off silver fire at him OR just blew up at him with all the Arcane power that only a Chosen of Mystra can conjure up... this one seems more likely :smallamused:

[Midnight_v]

EDIT: If i saw a Phaerimm in real life, I'd probably **** myself from fear... Lets face it, we are all level 1 commoners. 95% of the things in the monster manuals would warp our minds to near insanity due to years of telling ourselves that "These creatures don't exist"

I've been fighting all my life... I'm "some" kind of warrior, and I like to think a pc. . .
I totally believe that the possiblilty of horrifying things out there, and really
if one showed up...
I'd be relieved in a way cause then I can blame some of the horrible things that I've seen other humans do especially to other humans, on the influence of evil outsiders.
Thats not going to stop me from unloading the clip on it before it killed me, but I'd totally try to kill it with "Moar Dakka!!!" or whatever... but it would totally have to spend that swift action to do so.
I hope more people are out there like that.

Still. . . thats neither here nor there.
How about an avatar of CTHULHU?

A Half-ilithid-(half-fiend) CloudGiant?

"Beware... if ya dont' move fast enough, that cult might succeed where the others have failed, and bring thier blashpemous, god to the world"
I mean it can show up and blasphemy repeatedly, thats gotta count for something.

[Shadowknight12]

I've been fighting all my life... I'm "some" kind of warrior, and I like to think a pc. . .
I totally believe that the possiblilty of horrifying things out there, and really
if one showed up...
I'd be relieved in a way cause then I can blame some of the horrible things that I've seen other humans do especially to other humans, on the influence of evil outsiders.
Thats not going to stop me from unloading the clip on it before it killed me, but I'd totally try to kill it with "Moar Dakka!!!" or whatever... but it would totally have to spend that swift action to do so.
I hope more people are out there like that.

I'm not a warrior, but a man with a syringe. I still think the exact same thing.

[NichG]

The whole insanity thing in Lovecraft's stories is less about supernatural effects than it is about philosophy anyhow. Its the realization at what the existence of these beings means for how the universe works. And its going to be a hard thing to get given modern culture. In Lovecraft's day, it was much more widely believed that humans were the center of the universe, for cultural reasons that I'll leave there to avoid skirting board policies. The idea that humans weren't important at all, that nothing humans can or would do would ever matter in the grand scheme of things, was part of what Lovecraft thought would drive people insane.

Its sort of lampooned in Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, where there's a room that drives people insane because it shows them just how much their life matters to the universe.

So its not like 'ooga booga I look weird go crazy now', its 'Everything you've lived and worked for is meaningless. No matter what you do from here, it will be meaningless. And you are filled with the certain knowledge that that statement is true'

If Cthulhu and other Lovecraftian entities are used in a setting where that isn't at least somewhat supported or supernaturally enforced, they're just famous names stuck on a big monster. It's hard to argue 'you're meaningless' in D&D, so you have to replace philosophy with supernatural powers that force you to believe a demonstrably wrong philosophy. I guess one way you could do it in D&D is just crushing, undefeatable power.

So the conclusion of my argument is, Cthulhu in D&D is just the TO-built 20th level wizard. His existence tells the other PCs 'You aren't needed, go die somewhere. Your adventures are pointless because I can solve it with one spell.'.

[Slipperychicken]

So its not like 'ooga booga I look weird go crazy now', its 'Everything you've lived and worked for is meaningless. No matter what you do from here, it will be meaningless. And you are filled with the certain knowledge that that statement is true'


Sometimes, I think that's part of what the Far Realm(s) does. It shows you that there are epic, timeless beings, literally beyond your comprehension. You aren't even an ant to them, you are an infinitely-small stick figure walking around on the piece of paper that is the universe, stuck in your 2D world, unable to perceive the countless dimensions and truth values in which they exist and don't exist simultaneously and intermittently.


EDIT: That's also partly why I would rather the Great Old One (and even greater deities) remain unstatted; if you can walk up and stab it, if you can analyze and measure it, it loses its meaning. It stops being the maddening realization that your actions are pointless and your existence means nothing in the face of such an entity, and just becomes another Demon-King to gank for glory and xp.

[Calanon]

Sometimes, I think that's part of what the Far Realm(s) does. It shows you that there are epic, timeless beings, literally beyond your comprehension. You aren't even an ant to them, you are an infinitely-small stick figure walking around on the piece of paper that is the universe, stuck in your 2D world, unable to perceive the countless dimensions and truth values in which they exist and don't exist simultaneously and intermittently.

Apply the Pseudonatural template [EPIC] to ALL the creatures in the Far Realm...Pseudonatural female human commoner... scariest commoners you'll ever meet... :smallamused:


EDIT: That's also partly why I would rather the Great Old One (and even greater deities) remain unstatted; if you can walk up and stab it, if you can analyze and measure it, it loses its meaning. It stops being the maddening realization that your actions are pointless and your existence means nothing in the face of such an entity, and just becomes another Demon-King to gank for glory and xp.

Which is why I am against the deities listed in Deities and Demigods... They are NOWHERE near strong enough to fight player characters... :smallannoyed:

[Slipperychicken]

They are NOWHERE near strong enough to fight player characters... :smallannoyed:

Don't SDAs and divine ranks give crazy abilities like willing someone to die, from anywhere? And don't they get to perceive, like, a week into the future and the past? That plus a good Int score and 9th level spells means they should be pretty much untouchable.

[NichG]

That those abilities exist doesn't mean that every deity in the book has them. Most of them don't have the auto-win stuff, actually. Most of the deities in the book can be taken by reasonably prepared PCs. Its optimized deities and gods of death that you have to watch out for.

[Calanon]

Don't SDAs and divine ranks give crazy abilities like willing someone to die, from anywhere? And don't they get to perceive, like, a week into the future and the past? That plus a good Int score and 9th level spells means they should be pretty much untouchable.

Oh look, someone was polite enough to answer your question for me.


That those abilities exist doesn't mean that every deity in the book has them. Most of them don't have the auto-win stuff, actually. Most of the deities in the book can be taken by reasonably prepared PCs. Its optimized deities and gods of death that you have to watch out for.

And there aren't nearly enough of those. I prefer to use the Dicefreak deities since they are more accurate, they use the Epic level handbook, and a deified encounter can only be beaten by a Warblade who does a Time Stand Still super damage combo or a Wizard that creates an Epic Spell that completely cosmic snipes the God in question with Sonic damage (You'd be surprised how many monsters and especially gods aren't immune to that) and even then you've only taken the god out of that specific realm for on average 100 years, after which if your character is still around you are royally boned to say the least. However the Gods of Death are actually SO broken in there signature SDA "Life and Death" that it can literally be defined as Character Suicide to even consider fighting a God of Death with any intentions to win. The best way to beat Death is by becoming Immortal through Undeath or by being an Elan and even then you can still die. They made Gods of Death WAY to powerful and didn't even consider applying a saving throw to it... They stated that the resurrection function of "Life and Death" allows it to function as True Resurrection without Material components and the time of death is irrelevant, it doesn't specify what happens after the creature is resurrected if they are WELL beyond there lifespan... Do they come back and then suddenly die of old age? or does the God give them a portion of there Divine abilities and make them a Chosen?

"I shall resurrect my greatest champion! and he shall save my worshipers! *Resurrects the great paladin of * I live yet again! *and watches him crumble into dust* ...Well ****..."

There is a limit to how weak a Dragon Goddess is suppose to be... Tiamat has 5 heads that can be cut off with 185 damage delivered to any one head... When I told my friend that he giggled a little stating that is simply to easy... and ever since then I've been working on creating an effective Tiamat using Dicefreak rules for deities... and removing the ability to cut off her heads... that is her signature... Its like giving rules for wanting to cut off St.Culberts Beard heads or rules for wanting to Sunder off Hextor's arms... [I]Ridiculous :smallannoyed:

Sometimes late at night I look through my books and I peer through the Immortals Handbook and think to myself "Is this book capable of capturing the Raw power of Deities and the such?" but then I finish looking through it and think to myself yet again "...WHAT IS THIS CANCER!?" There are creatures that are infinitely beyond the power of creatures that can even be perceived leading me to believe this is simply a guide book on creating Far Realm monstrosities... The sheer idea of creating anything less of an Overdeity with this book is mindflaying and an act of insanity... I will however take the Epic Spell Rules that allow for creating a Divine Rank :smallamused: ...One day my friends... one day...

[Roguenewb]

I think if you wanna make cthulhu for low-op play, its fairly easy, pseudonatural intelligent Tarrasque has been mentioned, and thats not a bad idea.

For high op play....well....You have to drift into the OP pool yourself. I think the trick reading Dieties and Demigods, is to make Cthulhu an 40-HD Aberration (the equiv of a 20 HD outsider), and then give him 18 levels in a spont casting class, so he has the ability to break the game as well. But he gets only one trick. The hope is, that with 40HD and a broken Tier 2 character stapled to each other he can beat a tier 1 char. If Cthulhu sets you up a ton of save penalty stack effects in a time stop and then hits you with a save or die, so that suddenly your saves suck and then you die, is pretty otherworldly scary for high op players.