Corpse crafter, and asoicated feats

[dantiesilva]

I was thinking about becoming a dry lich and was wondering if the these feats would work if I myself made me into a dry lich.

Corpse crafter: Undead gain +4 Str, and +2hp per HD
Bolster resistance: Undead gain +4 turn resistance
Deadly chill: Undead deal extra 1d6 cold damage on melee attacks
Destruction Retribution: Undead deal negative energy damage when killed
Harden flesh: Undead gain +2 natural armor
Nimble bones: Undead gain +4 to init., and +10ft./ round
Necromatic Presence: Undead in your presence gain +4 turn resistance
Necromatic might: Undead in your presence gain +2 on attack rolls and damage rolls
Improved turn resistance
Lifebond


If so then I have to ask if the idea of ritual magic or circle magic with each person also having these feats if the modifiers would thus stack. Say 5 people one for each of your jars. Please playground clear this up for me.

[Duke of URL]

Stacking is easy -- no. Effects from similar sources do not stack unless they explicitly state that they do.

Corpse Crafter, et. al., is a bit more nebulous. They apply to undead that you create, but you're not really creating yourself as a lich, you are transforming into one. Your DM would be more than justified in saying "no".

[dantiesilva]

But ritual magic and circle magic allows you to cast a spell at a higher level thus everyone participating is theoretically casting the same spell. Which is transforming you into a lich. In that scernio would it work? If not that really stinks because I thought about how powerful that would be + 24 to str never mind everything else

[Fyermind]

Corpsecrafter itself gives an enhancement bonus to strength which is nice, but not very strong and won't stack.

I am not familiar with ritual or circle magic, but I think all of those feats will work if you "create" yourself. There is a level substitution for Wizard (Necromancer) and a level 8 ability for dread necromancer as well as doing it in a desecrated area with an altar that will give you an enhancement bonus to dex and many more HP/HD

There is no point taking a lot of those feats though unless you can retrain them after the transformation.

[dantiesilva]

So even if it does not say that it does not stack it does not stack because word for word corpse crafter says

" Each undead you raise or create with any necromancy spell gains a +4 enchantment bonus to strength and +2 hit points per hit dice. "

Nothing saying that it does not stack, then again I don't think they would have thought of someone using ritual magic or circle magic to incorporate the feats.

[Duke of URL]

So even if it does not say that it does not stack it does not stack because word for word corpse crafter says

" Each undead you raise or create with any necromancy spell gains a +4 enchantment bonus to strength and +2 hit points per hit dice. "

Nothing saying that it does not stack, then again I don't think they would have thought of someone using ritual magic or circle magic to incorporate the feats.

Named bonuses do not stack unless they explicitly state. You can't benefit from consecutive castings of bull's strength to have a +8 bonus to Strength.

Even if they were unnamed bonuses, they wouldn't stack because they came from the same source (feat).

It's in the "Basics" section of the SRD:


Stacking

In most cases, modifiers to a given check or roll stack (combine for a cumulative effect) if they come from different sources and have different types (or no type at all), but do not stack if they have the same type or come from the same source (such as the same spell cast twice in succession). If the modifiers to a particular roll do not stack, only the best bonus and worst penalty applies. Dodge bonuses and circumstance bonuses however, do stack with one another unless otherwise specified.

[dantiesilva]

Thank you for clearing that up but one question what is a circumstance bonus then?

[Duke of URL]

Thank you for clearing that up but one question what is a circumstance bonus then?

Something that is actually called a "circumstance bonus", such as the Bard's Inspire Confidence bard song. (Edit: scratch that, that's a competence bonus. Damn aging eyes.) A DM can also grant an ad-hoc circumstance bonus/penalty for checks made in easier or harder than normal conditions.

Edit 2: Better example -- masterwork tools grant a +2 circumstance bonus on related checks.

[dantiesilva]

well thank u all for the help saddly my idea does not work otherwise I would have just come up with a lich more powerful than the red wizard leader. I'm so disappointed about that. O well, so is there any other way for me to boost everything he has up and give bonuses, besides an evil alter and the desecrate spell. I believe spell stitched works for liches and evolved undead, but I was thinking more along the lines of feats or spells that can be made permanent all of which stack.

[Taelas]

A feat is not considered the same source as a different feat; the very idea is absurd.

Named bonuses don't stack unless they are Dodge bonuses or circumstance bonuses.

If a feat gives an unnamed bonus to something, and a different feat gives an unnamed bonus to the same thing, they stack.

[Duke of URL]

A feat is not considered the same source as a different feat; the very idea is absurd.

I never said that -- I said you couldn't benefit from the same feat twice, in the example of using circle/ritual magic to have multiple casters with the same feats working at once.

[Taelas]

I never said that -- I said you couldn't benefit from the same feat twice, in the example of using circle/ritual magic to have multiple casters with the same feats working at once.

Ah. My mistake, then. Mea culpa. Still, doesn't hurt to be clear on that point.

[danzibr]

well thank u all for the help saddly my idea does not work otherwise I would have just come up with a lich more powerful than the red wizard leader. I'm so disappointed about that. O well, so is there any other way for me to boost everything he has up and give bonuses, besides an evil alter and the desecrate spell. I believe spell stitched works for liches and evolved undead, but I was thinking more along the lines of feats or spells that can be made permanent all of which stack.
Ah don't feel too bad. I've had totally cool ideas which, well, don't work. Like a VoP Warforged with the feat that makes his regular army really tough. VoP explicitly said the armor bonus doesn't stack with regular armor, despite them not being the same type. Boo.

[dantiesilva]

So then could i permanent all these spells onto me and they all stack

Appraising Touch
Critical Strike
Focusing Chant
Herald’s Call
Master’s Touch
Serene Visage
Shock and Awe
Sticky Fingers
Bladeweave
Fly
Iron Silence
Know Vulnerabilities
Lively Step
Sonic Weapon
Surefooted Stride
Tactical Precision
War Cry
Wave of Grief
Allegro
Curse of Impending Blades
Dirge of Discord
Dolorous Blow
Know Opponent
Treasure Scent
Unluck


this is just a few but gets the idea by

[GnomeGninjas]

So then could i permanent all these spells onto me and they all stack

Appraising Touch
Critical Strike
Focusing Chant
Herald’s Call
Master’s Touch
Serene Visage
Shock and Awe
Sticky Fingers
Bladeweave
Fly
Iron Silence
Know Vulnerabilities
Lively Step
Sonic Weapon
Surefooted Stride
Tactical Precision
War Cry
Wave of Grief
Allegro
Curse of Impending Blades
Dirge of Discord
Dolorous Blow
Know Opponent
Treasure Scent
Unluck


this is just a few but gets the idea by

How do you permanent them?

[dantiesilva]

by the spell of course

[tyckspoon]

If your DM permits it and whatever the spells do is distinct so you don't have bonus-type conflicts, then yes. The main part is 'if your DM permits it'- you can't just apply Permanency to whatever you want. As the spell is written, it can be applied to exactly and only the list provided in Permanency itself, and no more. There's only perhaps a half-dozen more spells in all of D&D where they bothered to expand that list.

[dantiesilva]

so as long as a spell has a different name but has the same ability it stacks, for example shield and mage armor.

[Gavinfoxx]

http://web.archive.org/web/20080416113118/http://forums.gleemax.com/wotc_archive/index.php/t-332210

If you are wondering about Permanency, you should read that...

[dantiesilva]

That is a very small list that should be updated but yes thats the idea, thanks. YAY to bull' strength and them and the wish spell +9 to all stats.

So this is what i have so far using feats, spells, and templates

Turn resistance 24
STR 33
HP 2/HD 2/HD 1/ caster level chaxHD
Damage 1d6 cold 1d6+1d6/2HD 1/3 levels 6
AC 58 6(incoperal) 1/ 4 levels 1/ every 3 levels after 3rd
Saving throws 34 1(reflex)
Initative 8
Base land speed 80ft.
Postive energy resistance 20
Special attacks cone of cold
Cha 17
Miss chance 50%
Dex 19
Int 9
Attack rolls 36 1/3 levels add class level to attack bonus
skill checks 5 40(bluff) 8 to hide,18 intimidate, listen, move silently, search, spot 10 (sleight of hand) 10 Diplomacy
Wis 13
elements 40
Damage reduction 15/evil 10/ per attack
SR 25/lawful 25/chaos 25/ good
Bull rush 4

all this is modifiers by the way not end results

[Duke of URL]

so as long as a spell has a different name but has the same ability it stacks, for example shield and mage armor.

shield provides a shield bonus to AC; mage armor provides and armor bonus to AC. Different types, so they both apply.

You couldn't stack mage armor with magic vestment because they both provide an armor bonus to AC, you would only use the better value, even though the spells have different names.

[dantiesilva]

So two spells that improve natural armor dont stack, wow i am so not like this no more....From an uber boost to an ok boost

[Duke of URL]

So two spells that improve natural armor dont stack, wow i am so not like this no more....From an uber boost to an ok boost

Unless they specifically state that they stack, no, they don't.

[dantiesilva]

well does anyone know where there is a list of all buffing spells that u can attach to a creature. The last sight didnt have anything that improved stats.

[Vladislav]

shield provides a shield bonus to AC; mage armor provides and armor bonus to AC. Different type, so they don't stack.

You couldn't stack mage armor with magic vestment because they both provide an armor bonus to AC, you would only use the better value, even though the spells have different names.You probably meant "Different type, so they do stack."