[PF] Nevermind

[Shadowknight12]

Problem solved.

[Benly]

Is there anything in my build that could be improved? More importantly, is there anything that sucks terribly or is subpar, suboptimal or downright awful?

You probably won't like this, but the thing that jumps out the most as being something you could improve would be not to go Sorc 4/Oracle X. Losing two full spell levels on a pure caster (your first third-level spell comes at level 10) is seriously painful.

If you're not attached to this specific level layout, I would suggest going straight oracle and taking the Eldritch Heritage (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/eldritch-heritage) line of feats to gain the Boreal bloodline powers. That way you get the flavor and some of the mechanics of Boreal sorcerer heritage without compromising your effectiveness as an oracle.

[Shadowknight12]

You probably won't like this, but the thing that jumps out the most as being something you could improve would be not to go Sorc 4/Oracle X. Losing two full spell levels on a pure caster (your first third-level spell comes at level 10) is seriously painful.

Well, the idea was not to get Oracle for the spells, but for the revelations, many of which are dependent on character level, not oracle level (like Ice Armour), so I figured that a single level of Oracle and the Extra Revelations feat would do wonders for the build without having to sacrifice much (which is what the DM is doing with the drow DMPC). Do you still think it's too painful?


If you're not attached to this specific level layout, I would suggest going straight oracle and taking the Eldritch Heritage (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/eldritch-heritage) line of feats to gain the Boreal bloodline powers. That way you get the flavor and some of the mechanics of Boreal sorcerer heritage without compromising your effectiveness as an oracle.

Oh I see. That's an interesting idea and I will definitely give it some thought. I noticed that oracles are basically sorcerers but using the cleric spell list, rather than the wizard list. Is this really an upgrade? I figured the wizard spell list was better, so having sorcerer spellcasting and oracle revelations seemed like the best of both worlds to me. Or am I missing something?

[Benly]

Well, the idea was not to get Oracle for the spells, but for the revelations, many of which are dependent on character level, not oracle level (like Ice Armour), so I figured that a single level of Oracle and the Extra Revelations feat would do wonders for the build without having to sacrifice much (which is what the DM is doing with the drow DMPC). Do you still think it's too painful?


Ah, I see, I misread your build. Unfortunately, when a class ability says "level", unless it specifically says "character level" it means class level, so with one level of oracle Ice Armor will only ever be a +4 armor bonus. Given that, while the one-level casting loss is not crippling, it's not going to give you as much as you're hoping for in exchange. It could still be worth it for something like Freezing Spells (which would apply its bonus to your sorcerer spells and doesn't have much scaling involved), but I wouldn't recommend it.

[Shadowknight12]

Ah, I see, I misread your build. Unfortunately, when a class ability says "level", unless it specifically says "character level" it means class level, so with one level of oracle Ice Armor will only ever be a +4 armor bonus. Given that, while the one-level casting loss is not crippling, it's not going to give you as much as you're hoping for in exchange. It could still be worth it for something like Freezing Spells (which would apply its bonus to your sorcerer spells and doesn't have much scaling involved), but I wouldn't recommend it.

Oh? But some of the revelations say "oracle level", hence why we interpreted as such. I spoke with the DM and he seems pretty adamant in interpreting it thus, so does that make the one-level Oracle dip worth it, under that interpretation?

[Benly]

Oh? But some of the revelations say "oracle level", hence why we interpreted as such. I spoke with the DM and he seems pretty adamant in interpreting it thus, so does that make the one-level Oracle dip worth it, under that interpretation?

If your DM decides to have oracle mysteries scale to character level instead of class level, then an oracle dip is a reasonable idea. However, under standard RAW, when a class ability refers to "level" without specifying whether it means character level or class level, it means your level in that class.

In the case of oracle mysteries, they mix it up a bit with the term "oracle level" to prevent the text from becoming repetitive. However, since class level is the default referent for unspecified use of the term "level" in a class ability, it's the same in either case.

[Shadowknight12]

If your DM decides to have oracle mysteries scale to character level instead of class level, then an oracle dip is a reasonable idea. However, under standard RAW, when a class ability refers to "level" without specifying whether it means character level or class level, it means your level in that class.

In the case of oracle mysteries, they mix it up a bit with the term "oracle level" to prevent the text from becoming repetitive. However, since class level is the default referent for unspecified use of the term "level" in a class ability, it's the same in either case.

Well, the DM asked for a quote, so if you could point out where it's said that, it'd help clearing the confusion for him. But in any event, he has said that he stands by his previous interpretation, and anything that says "level" instead of "oracle level" scales up with character level. So the Oracle dip is good, then? I'm thinking of taking other ice-themed Revelations with the Extra Revelation feat, so I should have a good repertoire of magical abilities in case spells ever run out.

As for the rest, any opinions? Should I go for metamagic (with reducers) from 3.5e's myriad of such things, or is that too feat intensive? Is there any way I can bypass Immunity to Mind-Affecting effects in PF (especially since so many of my spells are mind-affecting)?

I am frankly rather lost as to how to keep evolving my character. I usually try to PrC as soon as possible, but in PF this is not a case, and I have to admit I've never played a full class before. Also I've yet to test my current build in combat, so it's possible I might get utterly trashed. Someone telling me "your spell selection is fine/awful" would be awesome, at least to ease my mind a bit.

[Benly]

I'm not much good at assembling spell lists, honestly, but yours looks okay for the most part. There are a bunch of spells that I wouldn't have picked but which I see why they're on there flavorwise, and it's not like they're crippling you.

The main change you might make that jumps out at me is that you don't have Sleet Storm - it's a great spell in general and has an obvious thematic resonance with the Boreal bloodline. You could also take good advantage of the various fog spells with the Water Sight revelation; Water Sight + Solid Fog will let you ruin anyone's day without fear of retalation, but even the lesser Fog Cloud or Obscuring Mist get a lot of advantage from it.

[Shadowknight12]

Sleet Storm is a great spell, I can't believe I missed it. I've replaced Reckless Infatuation for it in my future spells to get.

That idea with Water Sight is actually incredible. I can't believe I never thought of it. I'm definitely picking it when I take Extra Revelation, and I've added Solid Fog to my list of spells to get.

Thanks for the suggestions!