The Legend (sort of a fighter fix, sort of a warlock? 3,5, PEACH, WIP)

[Grod_The_Giant]

The Legend

http://www.miguelcoimbra.com/images/galerie/books/2romans/Mars.jpg

Some men find power by bending their knees to higher beings. Others pour over dusty tomes, seeking the words and gestures to tear reality asunder. More turn to the untapped power of their own mind or blood. Still more face the world with nothing more than a sword in their hand and a smile on their lips. But then there are the men who look at the status quo and say “no.” Men who gain great power not through an accident of ancestry, or a lifetime of study, but through nothing more than sheer force of will.
These men are the Legends, and these are their stories.

The legend’s class skills are Bluff, Climb, Concentration, Diplomacy, Heal, Intimidate, Jump, Listen, Profession, Ride, Sense Motive, Spot, Swim, and Tumble.
Skill Points at 1st level: (4 + Int modifier) x4
Skill Points at each additional level: 4 + Int modifier

Hit Die: d10


{table=head]Level|Base Attack|Fort|Ref|Will|Special|Unstoppable Strike|Tactics Known|Deeds Known
1st|+1|+2|+2|+2|Unstoppable Strike, Mortal Deeds, Fighting Style|+1d6||1
2nd|+2|+3|+3|+3|Minor Tactics|+1d6|1|1*
3rd|+3|+3|+3|+3|Bonus Feat|+2d6||2
4th|+4|+4|+4|+4|Legendary Grace|+2d6||3
5th|+5|+4|+4|+4|Mettle|+3d6|2|3*
6th|+6/+1|+5|+5|+5|Heroic Deeds, Bonus Feat|+3d6||4
7th|+7/+2|+5|+5|+5|Changed in the Telling|+4d6||5
8th|+8/+3|+6|+6|+6|Major Tactics|+4d6|3|6
9th|+9/+4|+6|+6|+6|Bonus Feat|+5d6||6*
10th|+10/+5|+7|+7|+7|Legendary Stamina|+5d6||7
11th|+11/+6/+1|+7|+7|+7|Legendary Deeds|+6d6|4|8
12th|+12/+7/+2|+8|+8|+8|Bonus Feat|+6d6||9
13th|+13/+8/+3|+8|+8|+8|Cloak of Legend|+7d6||9*
14th|+14/+9/+4|+9|+9|+9|Master Tactics|+7d6|5|10
15th|+15/+10/+5|+9|+9|+9|Bonus Feat|+8d6||11
16th|+16/+11/+6/+1|+10|+10|+10|Divine Deeds|+8d6||12
17th|+17/+12/+7/+2|+10|+10|+10|Legendary Immunity|+9d6|6|12*
18th|+18/+13/+8/+3|+11|+11|+11|Bonus Feat|+9d6||13
19th|+19/+14/+9/+4|+11|+11|+11|Legendary Vitality|+10d6||14
20th|+20/+15/+10/+5|+12|+12|+12|Endless Deed, Perfect Tactic|+10d6|7|15[/table]

Weapons and Armor Proficiency: Legends are proficient with all simple and martial weapons, and with all forms of armor and shields (except for tower shields).

Unstoppable Strike (Ex): A legend doesn’t bother unleashing flurries of ineffectual blows— if he strikes a foe, they know they’ve been hit. As a standard action, he can make a single melee or ranged attack at his full base attack bonus. If it hits, it deals 1d6 extra points of damage. This extra damage increases by 1d6 every two level levels thereafter.

Deeds (Ex): A legend’s actions echo through the course of history, becoming almost more than reality. Over the course of his career, he learns a number of special abilities, known as Deeds. All Deeds are (Ex), unless otherwise mentioned. The save DC against a Deed is equal to 10 + ½ Legend level + Charisma modifier. All deeds may be used at will.

There are four ranks of Deeds— Mortal, Heroic, Legendary, and Divine. A legend begins play knowing a single Mortal Deed. At every level other than 2, 5, 9, 13, and 17, he learns one additional Deed. At the aforementioned levels, however, he may replace any Deed he knows with another of equal or lesser rank. Alternately, he may chose to learn a Tactic (see below) of any level he has access to in place of a new Deed.

Fighting Style (Ex): A legend is an absolutely unique force in combat. At first level, selects one of the following styles, gaining the listed ability, and the granted bonus Deeds. The benefit applies only as long as he has more legend levels than levels in all other classes combined (not included racial hit die), although he may continue to use the bonus Deeds.


List of Fighting Styles

Dancing Monkey Style--Use your Dexterity modifier for melee attack and damage rolls, and when calculating the save DC for tactics.
1st: Lightning Soul
6th: Legendary Leap
11th:
16th:

Battle Scholar Style-- Use your Intelligence modifier for melee or ranged attack and damage rolls (choose one at the time you choose this ability; the choice cannot be subsequently changed), and when calculating the save DC for tactics.
1st: Oracle of Knowledge
6th: Perfect Lecture Technique
11th:
16th: Knowledge of a Thousand Wars

Magnificent Performer Style--Use your Charisma modifier for melee or ranged attack and damage roll (choose one at the time you choose this ability; the choice cannot be subsequently changed)s, and when calculating the save DC for tactics.
1st: Song of Great Victory
6th: Endless Warsong
11th:
16th: Essence of Divinity

Raging Ox Style--Use your Strength modifier for ranged attack and damage rolls, and for tactics used with a ranged attack.
1st:
6th: Unstoppable Stride
11th:
16th:

Sagacious Swordsman Style—Use your Wisdom modifier for melee or ranged attack and damage roll (choose one at the time you choose this ability; the choice cannot be subsequently changed)s, and when calculating the save DC for tactics.
1st:
6th:
11th:
16th: Knowledge of a Thousand Deeds

Warbringer Style--Improve hit die to a d12, and gain proficiency with tower shields and all exotic weapons.
1st: Iron Guardian Stance
6th: Boundless Endurance
11th:
16th:


Tactics (Ex): A legend’s Unstoppable Strike is a powerful weapon, but no true warrior is content with a single trick. At second level, and every third level thereafter, he learns a single Tactic. A tactic is an extraordinary ability, modifying his Unstoppable Strike in some way. A legend may only use a single Tactic at a time. The save DC against a Tactic is equal to 10 + ½ Legend level + Strength modifier (if used with a melee attack) or Dexterity modifier (if used with a ranged attack). All Tactics may be used at will. There are four ranks of Tactics— Minor, Major, Master, and Perfect.

Bonus Feat (Ex): At 3rd level, and every third level thereafter, a legend learns a single bonus feat, drawn from the list of Fighter bonus feats.

Legendary Grace (Ex): Starting at 4th level, a legend may add his Charisma modifier as a resistance bonus to all saving throws.

Mettle (Ex): A legend cannot be easily felled by hostile magic. At 5th level, he gains the mettle ability. If he makes a successful Will or Fortitude save against an attack that normally would have a lesser effect on a successful save (such as any spell with a saving throw entry of Will half or Fortitude partial), he instead completely negates the effect. An unconscious or sleeping legend does not gain the benefit of mettle.

Changed in the Telling: At 7th level, a legend no longer looses the bonus from his fighting style if he has more levels in other classes than he does in legend.

Legendary Stamina (Ex): As his fame increases, a legend becomes even more determined to survive. At 9th level, he gains the ability to reroll an unsuccessful saving throw against an effect that would kill him, such as a finger of death spell or massive damage. He may use this ability a number of times per day equal to his Charisma modifier. An unconscious or sleeping legend does not gain the benefit of this ability.

Cloak of Legend (Ex): At 13th level, a legend gains spell resistance equal to 15+ his legend level. Unlike other types of spell resistance, he can always allow any spell he chooses to bypass his resistance. An unconscious or sleeping legend does not gain the benefit of this ability.

Eternal Call of Battle(Ex): At 19th level, a legend’s power is such that he can shrug off even the icy hand of death. He becomes immune to death effects and massive damage, and gains Regeneration equal to his Charisma modifier for as long as he has a weapon in his hand. This regeneration is not bypassed by any damage type. A legend rendered unconscious by nonlethal damage retains hold of his weapons. To wrest a weapon from the hand on an unconscious legend, the opponent must take a standard action and succeed on a Strength check with a DC equal to the legend's level plus his own Strength modifier.

Endless Deed (Ex): At 20th level, a legend may tear the fabric of reality asunder, performing feats that would leave a god speechless. He learns a single Endless Deed, a signature move of unsurpassed power. The saving throw against his Endless Deed, if applicable, is the same as for other Deeds, but has a +2 bonus.

[Grod_The_Giant]

<Reserved for Deeds and Tactics. They'll ultimately work a lot like a Warlock's Invocations and Eldrich Essence/Blast Shape invocations, respectively, although they'll hopefully scale a bit better. I'm open to suggestions, for which I will provide credit>


Deeds

Mortal Deeds


Shatterstrike— As a standard action, strike an object weighing up to 100 pounds per legend level, either with a melee weapon or your bare hands or feet. The object must make a Fortitude save or be utterly destroyed, as though by a shatter spell. If the target is larger, you instead deal 1d6 damage per legend level on a failed Fortitude save. Alternately, you may attempt to make a melee touch attack against a crystalline creature of any weight, dealing 1d6 damage per legend level (Fortitude half).
Song of Great Victory— As a move action, you may grant all allies within 30 feet a morale bonus to attack rolls and skill checks equal to your Charisma modifier. This bonus lasts for a number of rounds equal to your Charisma modifier.
Perfect Sight— You gain the ability to see perfectly in any sort of darkness, magical or otherwise. In addition, you gain a bonus to Spot checks equal to your legend level. At 10th level, you gain blindsight out to a distance of 10 feet per point of your Charisma modifier.
Lightning Soul— You gain a bonus to your base land speed equal to one-half your legend level times five, and a bonus to initiative equal to your Charisma modifier.
Walker of the World— You are never hindered or harmed by natural terrain. This ability allows you to, among other things, move through dense undergrowth without being slowed, breathe underwater, and ignore extreme heat and cold as though affected by an endure elements spell. Extreme natural features, such as lava and lightning, can still damage you, however. At 10th level, you gain immunity to all sources of natural damage, including non-magical lava and lightning.
Orator's Soul-- You may read and speak all languages, and converse with all creatures, as though affected by a tongues or speak with animals spell. In addition, you gain a bonus to Charisma-based social checks equal to one-half your legend level.
Iron Guardian Stance-- As an immediate action, you may interpose yourself between an adjacent ally and an incoming attack. The attack targets you instead. At tenth level, you may move up to one-half as part of the immediate action.
Perfect Whirlwind Defense-- As an immediate action, you may attempt to parry an oncoming attack, be it melee, ranged, or a ranged touch attack. Make an opposed attack roll; if you succeed, you deflect the attack. If you fail, you are considered flat-footed against the attack. At tenth level, you may attempt to parry attacks aimed at adjacent allies, and are no longer considered flat-footed against an attack you failed to parry.
Oracle of Knowledge-- Add all Knowledge skills to your list of class skills, as well as Decipher Script, with 2 ranks in each. In addition, you gain Knowledge Devotion as a bonus feat.
Shadowsworn-- Add Hide, Move Silently, Open Lock, and Disable Device to your list of class skills, with 2 ranks in each, and gain the Trapfinding and Trapsense ability, as the Rogue.



Heroic Deeds


Legendary Leap— As a move action, you may jump any distance up to your base land speed. You do not suffer a penalty for not taking a running start, and you may even jump straight up. In addition, when calculating falling damage, divide the distance fallen by one hundred.
Words of Friendship— As a full-round action, you may attempt to convince an opponent that you mean him no harm. They must make a Will save, with a +4 bonus if they is currently being attacked by you or your allies, and a +6 bonus if you have personally damaged damaged them within the last hour. If they fail their save, for one hour per legend level you may add your legend level to all Bluff, Sense Motive and Diplomacy checks you make against them.
Unstoppable Stride-- You are immune to any effect which would hinder your ability to move, such as dense undergrowth or a solid fog spell, as though you were under the effects of a freedom of movement spell, although you can still be grappled. In addition, you may walk on water and other liquids as though affected by a water walk spell, and on walls and ceilings as though affected by a spider climb spell. All of these effects are extraordinary.
Endless Warsong-- As long as you are conscious, allies within 50ft gain a morale bonus to Will saves, attack and damage rolls equal to your Charisma modifier.
Boundless Endurance-- You gain damage reduction equal to your Constitution modifier.
Shoulders of Atlas-- Multiply your carrying capacity by 10.
Perfect Lecture Technique— As a standard action, you may instruct an ally in how to perform a task he normally could not. Make an appropriate Knowledge check at a -5 penalty. Your ally may then make a single skill check as though he possessed ranks in the skill equal to the result of this check divided by two. This bonus lasts for one minute per point of your Intelligence modifier, or until it is discharged. You may use this ability on yourself, but you take a -8 penalty to the check. A character may only be affected by this ability once per hour.



Legendary Deeds


Leap of Seven Kingdoms-- You may jump a number of miles equal to your Legend level. You move at a rate of one mile per round. In addition, you never take falling damage.
Planar Sundering-- As a full-round action, you may tear open a portal between two planes of existence. This portal cannot be targeted precisely, and remains open for a number of rounds equal to one-half your legend level.
Aura of Perfect Terror-- As a free action, you may activate a Frightful Presence effect, with a range of 50 feet. Targets who fail a Will save are Shaken, and those who fail by 5 or more are Frightened. Targets with half as many hit die as you or less are instead Frightened on a failed save and Panicked if they fail by 5 or more.



Divine Deeds


Knowledge of a Thousand Wars-- You permanently gain the bonuses of the foresight spell. In addition, you may gain the benefits of a divination spell as a swift action. If you do so, you may not use the ability again for 2d4 hours. This is an extraordinary ability.
Voice of Utter Conviction-- If you speak to a target whose attitude towards you is already neutral or better for a minute or more, you may choose to force them to roll a Will save. If they fail, they are affect as though by a charm person spell with a caster level equal to your legend level, although you do not form a mental link with them. Each hour that the target remains under the effects of this ability that is not spent in your company, they may roll a new Will save, with a +2 bonus for each hour since they were last in your company. This is an extraordinary ability.
Essence of Divinity-- As a full-round action, you may project an aura of sheer, perfect personal magnetism. Targets within one hundred feet of you with a number of hit die equal to or less than your Charisma modifier must make a Will save or become instantly Friendly towards you. Those who fail by 5 or more instead become Fanatical, while those who fail by 10 or more become Dominated. Any action that would harm one or more of these people allows the anyone who can see it to make a new Will save to shake off the effects. Once affected, the attitude change fades at a rate of one step per day until it reaches the level it would be without this ability. A target who successfully saves against this ability cannot be affected by it again for 24 hours, and one who fails his save against it cannot be affected again by it for 1 week.



Endless Deeds


Moment of Perfection— You take a deep breath, gathering the strands of your power, and, with a single effort of will, shatter the bounds of time. As a standard action, you may stop time for a number of rounds equal to one-fourth your Charisma modifier (minimum 1). During these rounds, you may not use any Deeds or Tactics, but may otherwise act normally. All results of your actions take effect instantly when the time stop ends.



Tactics

Minor Tactics


Hamstring— Target must make a Fortitude save or have all movement speeds halved for one round per legend level. If affected by this ability again before the penalty wears off, he is immobilized for 1 round per point of your Strength modifier on failing his Fortitude save. This penalty can be removed by magical healing that restores more than (legend level) hit points, or by a lesser restoration spell or its like.
Gut Blow— Target must make a Fortitude save or be sickened for one round per legend level.
Giantkiller Strike-- Your Unstoppable Strike bypasses hardness and damage reduction.
Dancing Wind Shot-- Your Unstoppable Strike ignores all wind effects, including those of a wind wall spell, and the range increment is doubled.




Major Tactics


Strike of Blinding Perfection— Target must make a Fortitude save or be blinded for 1d4 rounds.
Mystic Culling— Target must make a Will save or take a penalty to caster level equal to your Strength modifier.
Crimson Waterfall-- Target continues to bleed after being struck, taking 1d6 points of damage per 2 points of Strength modifier per round, to a maximum of 5d6. A successful Fortitude save stops the bleeding for a round; a second successful save-- or magical healing that restores more than (legend level) hit points-- is necessary to stop the bleeding permanently.
Trollkiller Strike-- The damage dealt by your Unstoppable Strike cannot be healed naturally, by fast healing or by regeneration, and is always treated as lethal. It can be healed magically, but doing so requires a Heal check with a DC equal to 15 + your legend level + your Strength modifier.
Soaring Raptor Shot-- This Tactic can only be used when making a ranged attack. The projectile you fire may maneuver while in-flight to its target as though it had Clumsy maneuverability. The range increment is determined by the total distance is flies, not by the distance between you and the target.
Army-Slaying Dance-- You may attack any number of foes, dividing up your Unstoppable Strike damage equally between them. You may move up to your full speed between each attack, but you must deal at least +1d6 damage to each foe.
Seventh Star Shot-- The range increment of your weapon is multiplied by a hundred. In addition, this attack is resisted by a Reflex save instead of the the target's armor class-- if he succeeds on the save, he takes no damage, and if he fails, he takes full damage. Improved Evasion does not apply.



Master Tactics


Sun-Blocking Barrage-- This Tactic may only be used with a ranged attack. All foes within a 20ft radius placed anywhere within two range increments must make a Reflex save or be struck for your full Unstoppable Strike damage.
Butchery of Mind and Soul-- Instead of dealing bonus damage, your Unstoppable Strike instead inflicts a number of negative levels equal to the number of damage die you would normally add. A successful Fortitude save halves the number of levels inflicted.
Stunning Strike-- The target of your Unstoppable Strike must make a Fortitude save or be stunned for 1 round and shaken for 2d6 rounds thereafter.



Perfect Tactics


Killing Blow— Target must make a Fortitude save or be slain. A target who successfully saves against this ability cannot be affected by it again for 24 hours.
Strike of Perfect Annihilation-- A target slain by your Unstoppable Strike is utterly annihilated. His body and soul are both destroyed, preventing any attempt at resurrection or contact.




New Feats

Master Combatant
Prerequisite: Legend 3, Battle Scholar, Magnificent Performer, or Sagacious Swordsman style
Benefit: You may apply your Fighting Style's signature ability score to all attack and damage rolls, rather than only ranged or melee.

Storied in Word and Deeds
Prerequisite: Legend 6
Benefit: You may learn a new Deed at one level lower than your normal maximum.
Special: You may take this feat multiple times, each time learning a new Deed.

Champion of Battle
Prerequisite: Legend 8
Benefit: You may learn a new Tactic at one level lower than your normal maximum.
Special: You may take this feat multiple times, each time learning a new Tactic.

Personal note

Exalted Charms what may be worth turning into Deeds: a list found while cleaning up my desk.

Melee
--------------
Throw-bounce-catch melee wep
Ignore AC penalties
Auto-Parry
Counterattack

Thrown
-----------
Physical debuff
Conceal throwing atack
Cripple
Sneak Attack
Extra Range
Returning Weapon

War
-----------
Immunity to Fear aura
Intimidate a large group

Integrity
-------------
Resist Shaping (Transmutation? Magic?) attacks
Resistance/Immunity to mental attacks
See through illusions
Boost others' will saves

Performance
-------------
Convince someone of a single fact
Force someone to fall in love with you

Presence
--------------
Follow one order
Will save to attack you
Super-Intimidate

Resistance
---------------
Armor instant don/summon/distinctive magic
Imm. act to gain DR
Flat armor bonus
Rage/Frenzy
Shake off conditions
Self-Heal

Craft
---------------
<All Craft feats; CL equal to 2/3 level)
Increase break DC (weapons, objects, buildings)

Investigation
-----------------
Insta-search
Detect lies
Force Truth-speaking
Learn target's motivations, position, etc

Lore
---------
Super-training
Bestow power on target?

Medicine
---------
Restore health over time
Provide temporary HP
Instantly detect everything that's "wrong" with target

Occult
----------
See invisibility
attack incorporeals
eat ghosts

Athletics
------------
Perfect balance; walk on things as fine as a hair
Cheetah charge
Boost physical stat?

Awareness
------------
see through all disguises, concealment, invisibility, etc

Dodge
---------
Imm. act. dodge
jump away from foe after hit

Stealth
----------
<mind blank type effect>

Linguistics
------------
super-fast writing, research, etc? (Int-based check)
Understand all codes, damaged text, etc
Charm through writing

Ride
------
Perfect control of mount
Make any mount equivilent to an animal companion?
Allow mount to use Deeds/Tactics too?
Super-mount speed

Sail
------
Hold together damaged ship?
Perfect navigation?
Sail to cross-planar seas?
No damage from storms, reefs, etC?

Socialize
----------
Make people believe you belong to a group
Speech to provoke strong feeling in crowd/Suggestion/Geas crowd
Perfect understanding of social subtlties and power structures?
Fascinate through speech

Martial Arts
-------------
Attacks bypass DR
Counterattack
Flurry of Blows
Lethal unarmed damage
Attacks deal knockback
Throw
Stunning Fist
Earthquake

[Noctis Vigil]

This looks awesome, and I greatly look forward to your Deeds and Tactics. The only suggestion I can think of off the top of my head is possibly the option to take a second Fighting Style at a later level.

Keep up the good work! :smallbiggrin:

[Lemmy]

Can't wait to see the final version!

I'm worried that the sheer awesomeness might be too much to bear!

Why hasn't WotC hired you yet?

[Grod_The_Giant]

Can't wait to see the final version!

I'm worried that the sheer awesomeness might be too much to bear!

Why hasn't WotC hired you yet?

Aww... that's one of the nicest things anyone's ever said to me. :smallredface:

I put up a few Deeds and Tactics, mostly low-level stuff. I'm not entirely satisfied with all of it, though. We'll see.

[Noctis Vigil]

The duration on Hamstring is incredibly long for so low level an ability. If the duration is that long, it should probably have a clause along the lines of:

"If the recipient of this Tactic is healed for more than half the damage caused by the Unstoppable Strike that caused this effect, his movement speed is recovered."

Other than that, it looks pretty good. Well done sir, I look forward to the rest.

[Cheesy74]

Words of Friendship is pretty exploitable as it stands - it can be spammed until it works, and its duration is absurd. Bring the duration down to an hour or ten minutes per level and have a successful save make them immune for a day or so.

I agree with Noctis Vigil on the Hamstring duration and a fix.

Otherwise, I love this class, though its power level is a bit high for my tastes.

[silphael]

I think you may want to put in an ability to add unstoppable strike on a full round attack action.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Good points, ya'all. Fixed the abilities you pointed out, and added a full attack tactic.

[Noctis Vigil]

Question: if I take the Fighting Style to let my attacks be derived from Charisma, can I use Charisma to determine the save on a Tactic?

[Wyntonian]

What someone else said, about you being hired by WOTC? Yeah. It should happen.

[Lemmy]

What someone else said, about you being hired by WOTC? Yeah. It should happen.

I heard they just opened a position:

Monte Cook Leaves Wizards of the Coast (http://geek-related.com/2012/04/26/monte-cook-leaves-wizardsdd-5e-design-team/)

[Noctis Vigil]

I heard they just opened a position:

Monte Cook Leaves Wizards of the Coast (http://geek-related.com/2012/04/26/monte-cook-leaves-wizardsdd-5e-design-team/)

What, he's leaving?! Noooo! I love the stuff he does! :smallsigh:

[Grod_The_Giant]

Added some new Deeds and Tactics. As before, suggestions for abilities, or just new, more awesome names, are always appreciated.

[DrewVolker]

Really loving this class.
Really hoping the GM of a game I will be playing in soon will allow me to use this.

Just a quick error I spotted where it says "A legend begins play knowing a single Mortal Deed. At every level other than 5, 9, 13, and 17, he learns one additional Deed. At the aforementioned levels, however, he may replace any Deed he knows with another of equal or lesser rank." However on the class table level 2 also dose not show a deed learned and has a * mark by it, just like level 5, 9, 13, and 17. So I am guessing you meant for level 2 to also be a level you don't gain a deed, but can switch one out for a new one?

[Just to Browse]

Orator's Soul and Aquatic Stalker seem very weak... And this class on the whole seems very strong.

Also, does the extra Fighting Style you get from Master Combatant also require you to have more levels in legend than anything else, or does that one come free?

[Grod_The_Giant]

Really loving this class.
Really hoping the GM of a game I will be playing in soon will allow me to use this.
Glad you like it. Let me know how it goes... and if you need more abilities. I will keep making more, I swear, as soon as finals stop kicking my ***.


Just a quick error I spotted where it says "A legend begins play knowing a single Mortal Deed. At every level other than 5, 9, 13, and 17, he learns one additional Deed. At the aforementioned levels, however, he may replace any Deed he knows with another of equal or lesser rank." However on the class table level 2 also dose not show a deed learned and has a * mark by it, just like level 5, 9, 13, and 17. So I am guessing you meant for level 2 to also be a level you don't gain a deed, but can switch one out for a new one?
Oh, yeah, I did, didn't I? ...huh. On the one hand, it fits the progression to allow the retraining here, but on the other hand, it's a bit pointless.


Orator's Soul and Aquatic Stalker seem very weak...
Aquatic Stalker, yeah, I wasn't sure what I could really give there. I figured there should be an option, but... hmm. Maybe a more general environmental adaptation power? Orator's Soul... the +1/2 level to Charisma checks already makes me worry about Diplomancer cheese, but I see what you're saying.


Also, does the extra Fighting Style you get from Master Combatant also require you to have more levels in legend than anything else, or does that one come free?
It should have the same requirement; I'll go fix that. It's in there to prevent a one-level dipping.


And this class on the whole seems very strong.
I mean, I'm shooting for a mid-to-high Tier 3 class here; sort of a powered-up, mundane version of a Warlock. Are there any areas or abilities you feel that are too strong for their level?

[bobthe6th]

planer sundering+plane of water=introduce local area to high pressure water! spam to drown anywhere, ever.

[Noctis Vigil]

I mean, I'm shooting for a mid-to-high Tier 3 class here; sort of a powered-up, mundane version of a Warlock. Are there any areas or abilities you feel that are too strong for their level?

Pretty sure this might break into T2, especially if you keep making lots more abilities. Not that that's a problem. On the contrary, seeing melee get nice things is making me happy. Seeing melee get nice things my players know nothing of is making my inner GM squee. Keep it up, I love it!

[Doorhandle]

Same here! FINNALLY, I CAN BE GIGALAMESH!

Anyway, I think the strength-based tactics could either be weakened or limited in some way: The strength modifiers of any frontliner (I.E, this class, 50% of the time) are easily going to be in the thirties if they are any good, and 15d6 bleed/round from Bleed out is a very likely prospect, if not more.

Also, there should be some more deeds and tactics relating to ranged attacks. Along with being freakishly strong melee fighters, there were also many mythical heroes who where legendary with a bow, particularly any Indian heroes, and including Hercules and Ulysses. Things like ebing ale to shoot around corners, along the distance of several miles, or otherwise being ridiculously accurate. (Maybe a tactic that allows you to shoot/hit fast engouth that your shot is set on fire due to friction?)

Actually, there should be more tactics/deeds in general. Like one that lets you walk along in the briny deeps of the sea without any trouble, or another to make you able to carry ridicously big/heavy objects. Something relating to grappling would be nice: grapplers that aren’t monsters don’t get nice things.

On top of this, one-or-two A.O.E tactics. The one thing this can’t do is blast.

[Veklim]

How would Legendary Vitality interact with Eternal Call of Battle? They both grant Regen equal to Cha modifier...I figure they don't stack, but you can't get hold of ECoB until the level before the last level where you can swap out deeds for better/different ones, which means you'll have likely wasted a deed on it the moment you hit level 19...

Otherwise a rather superb and kinda sexy class. I tip my hat to you sir!

[Grod_The_Giant]

Aww... I love you guys too. :smallredface:


Anyway, I think the strength-based tactics could either be weakened or limited in some way: The strength modifiers of any frontliner (I.E, this class, 50% of the time) are easily going to be in the thirties if they are any good, and 15d6 bleed/round from Bleed out is a very likely prospect, if not more.
Hmm, perhaps, yeah. 1/2 Strength modifier seems more reasonable.


Also, there should be some more deeds and tactics relating to ranged attacks. Along with being freakishly strong melee fighters, there were also many mythical heroes who where legendary with a bow, particularly any Indian heroes, and including Hercules and Ulysses. Things like ebing ale to shoot around corners, along the distance of several miles, or otherwise being ridiculously accurate. (Maybe a tactic that allows you to shoot/hit fast engouth that your shot is set on fire due to friction?)

Actually, there should be more tactics/deeds in general. Like one that lets you walk along in the briny deeps of the sea without any trouble, or another to make you able to carry ridicously big/heavy objects. Something relating to grappling would be nice: grapplers that aren’t monsters don’t get nice things.

On top of this, one-or-two A.O.E tactics. The one thing this can’t do is blast.

There will be more :smallbiggrin: Those are some great ideas; mind if I steal them? (PS: Walker in the World would do the 'deeps of the sea' bit.)


How would Legendary Vitality interact with Eternal Call of Battle? They both grant Regen equal to Cha modifier...I figure they don't stack, but you can't get hold of ECoB until the level before the last level where you can swap out deeds for better/different ones, which means you'll have likely wasted a deed on it the moment you hit level 19...
Derp. I... kind of forgot about Legendary Vitality. :smallredface: I think I'll just take out Eternal Call of Battle.

[Veklim]

Derp. I... kind of forgot about Legendary Vitality. I think I'll just take out Eternal Call of Battle.

Happens to the best of us dude! I could settle for ECoB granting DR equal to Con modifier maybe (or half Con mod...unsure as to how OP that could become without doing 'maths' :smallconfused:) with the same fluff of 'With a weapon in my hand!' (which is pretty damned central to legendary warrior tales everywhere!) Unless I'm being blind, there's no DR anywhere in this class, at least nothing I've managed to read thus far...

Will be keeping an eye on this, looking forward to the ranged stuff (and maybe some defensive specialist stuff too, I really rather wanna make a Legend bodyguard for one of my NPC royals...:smallwink:)

[Grod_The_Giant]

Added still more stuff, including some ranged tactics, some defensive deeds, DR, and other suggested abilities. Thanks for all the love and the suggestions; keep 'em coming!

EDIT: Also, Noctis, really Tier 2? I admit to an amount of worry about some of the social Deeds I just put in, but... Sorcerer-level power? He can do a lot of different things, but never that much damage (maybe Assault of Boundless Brutality + Two-Weapon Fighting, I guess), and none of the effects (except maybe some of the social deeds, which I admit to being worried about) are too broken (I hope.)

[Veklim]

All looks pretty good to me! Full PEACH tomorrow sometime, but noticed this at a glance:


Iron Guardian Stance-- As an immediate action, you may interpose yourself between an adjacent ally and an incoming attack. The attack targets you instead. At tenth level, you may move up to one-half as part of the immediate action.

One half of what? :smalltongue:

Defensive abilities are rocking though, and the ranged stuff looks (again at a glance) to be reasonably balanced against the melee stuff already existent.

[tarkisflux]

EDIT: Also, Noctis, really Tier 2? I admit to an amount of worry about some of the social Deeds I just put in, but... Sorcerer-level power? He can do a lot of different things, but never that much damage (maybe Assault of Boundless Brutality + Two-Weapon Fighting, I guess), and none of the effects (except maybe some of the social deeds, which I admit to being worried about) are too broken (I hope.)

I'd say he's got sufficient toys from class features to be in Tier 3 all by himself, but he's got UMD as a class skill and cares about Cha for other reasons so he can pull a lot of spellcaster tricks with sufficient prep. So yeah, looks like either a high Tier 3 or a low Tier 2. I certainly wouldn't feel bad about having him in a game with a Sorc as long as I had scroll access.

On the social deeds, Voice of Utter Conviction should probably have some sort of duration on it besides new saves. As it is, you can Words of Friendship someone to make them friendly (via charm effect), and then follow with a Voice of Utter Conviction to carry them around in your party for forever. Depending on how "spend time with" is defined, you could do this for a whole army if you wanted, and they never get to break free. I don't really think a dominated army was intended, it seems out of line with other things, but I could be wrong. It might also work better to split the domination and geas abilities up, so you can do a long one for sending people on quests and a short one for making them fight for you briefly against their friends.

[Noctis Vigil]

Added still more stuff, including some ranged tactics, some defensive deeds, DR, and other suggested abilities. Thanks for all the love and the suggestions; keep 'em coming!

EDIT: Also, Noctis, really Tier 2? I admit to an amount of worry about some of the social Deeds I just put in, but... Sorcerer-level power? He can do a lot of different things, but never that much damage (maybe Assault of Boundless Brutality + Two-Weapon Fighting, I guess), and none of the effects (except maybe some of the social deeds, which I admit to being worried about) are too broken (I hope.)

It's not the damage that lands him there, it's utility. This guy gets enough skills to let him be a backup skill-monkey (including the ever-abusable UMD), short range teleport (Leap of Seven Kingdoms), gating (Planar Sundering), Foresight (Knowledge of a Thousand Wars), charm person (Words of Friendship), permanent Tongues and Speak With Animals (Orator's Soul), Dominate Person and Geas/Quest (Voice of Utter Conviction), a better Time-Stop than Wizards (Moment of Perfection), some of the best single target damage dealing without optimization I've ever seen (Assault of Boundless Brutality), better Enervation than the average Wizard (Butchery of Mind and Soul), better Stunning than a Monk (Stunning Strike), an AT WILL save-or-die (Killing Blow), and even a way to make any foe he kills completely impossible to revive by any means ever (Strike of Perfect Annihilation). Yes, he only has so many abilities, but many of these are world-changing reality-warping abilities. Even if all a Sorcerer has is one or two spells, he's still T2 simply because he can have those two spells be world-shapingly powerful. This guy hits that level of power in at least a few of his abilities. I restate my stance: this is T2.

[Grod_The_Giant]

I think the real problem here is the enormous jump between Tier 3 and Tier 2. T3 is "really good at one thing, but competent at others," or "competent at most things." T2 is "as much raw power as a T1, but fewer tricks." On one hand, it's kind of cool that you think I managed to do that with a non-caster (the only other thing that does that is the Binder with access to endless Summon Monster cheese), but on the other...

In any case, I took out Use Magic Device, which didn't really fit the class, and nerfed some of the abilities down a tad, especially the social ones. Assault of Boundless Brutality was probably too good to exist, and, well, Charm Person <coughstupidbrokenspellscough>. It's not that I think it really was too good compared to, say, a Sorcerer, but... I feel like homebrew needs to be kept to a more exacting balance level if it wants to make it in a game. If a potential DM looks at the class and is like "whoa, +80d6 on a full attack," it doesn't matter if a wizard can do worse, it won't fly. And if no-one's going to play the class, why bother making it?

[Mangles]

I really like this class. Don't know about how well it all balances, but I still really like this class.

[Amechra]

Eh, still doesn't hit Tier 2, even if you were to add UMD back in; if I really felt like it, I could probably make a list of stuff that makes this guy cry no matter what options you picked, which really doesn't happen with a Tier 2.

Not that I'm saying that your class ain't nice; I actually rather like it, though there are a couple areas where the wording makes me twitch. I also think that it would be rather nice if you ended up having your choice of fighting style do more; as it is, only ability scores separate Piercing Quill Style and Artist of Arrows Style.

What if you made it so that a given style would give you a Deed of each grade other than Timeless, from a thematic list? For example, Piercing Quill Style could give you:

-Oracle of Knowledge
-Alter the Scrolls: Knowledge check in the place of a save as an Immediate action.
-Library of Alexandria Teachings: You may, once a minute, replace any other skill check with a Knowledge check of your choice.
-Knowledge of a Thousand Wars.

If you do this, you're going to have to get rid of Master Combatant, perhaps changing it into a feat?

[Doorhandle]

There will be more Those are some great ideas; mind if I steal them?
Why did you think I put them up there! Do eeet!

[Grod_The_Giant]

Eh, still doesn't hit Tier 2, even if you were to add UMD back in; if I really felt like it, I could probably make a list of stuff that makes this guy cry no matter what options you picked, which really doesn't happen with a Tier 2.
That's good... I don't really want T2.


What if you made it so that a given style would give you a Deed of each grade other than Timeless, from a thematic list? For example, Piercing Quill Style could give you:

-Oracle of Knowledge
-Alter the Scrolls: Knowledge check in the place of a save as an Immediate action.
-Library of Alexandria Teachings: You may, once a minute, replace any other skill check with a Knowledge check of your choice.
-Knowledge of a Thousand Wars.

If you do this, you're going to have to get rid of Master Combatant, perhaps changing it into a feat?
That's actually a really cool idea. Hmm...

[Noctis Vigil]

If you do this, you're going to have to get rid of Master Combatant, perhaps changing it into a feat?

Or he could change it so it only gives the basic benefit and not the extra Deeds. But yes, I like this idea as well, it gives him more options to kill my players with when you finish the class. :smalltongue:

[Grod_The_Giant]

Consolidated and updated combat styles to take Amechra's suggestion into account, added some feats, and one new Deed. They're not done, though.

I'd love some more suggestions for Deeds and Tactics, especially higher-level ones. My basic criteria is that they need to involve some sort of semi-plausible physical action. For example, Leap of Seven Kingdoms is OK, because while real people can't jump a dozen miles, they can jump a dozen feet-- the difference is one of scale, that's all. A similar Deed that let your fly would NOT be ok, because that's not something "real" person can do-- you need either wings or magic.

[Daverin]

Hey, just wanted to check in how this was doing and see if it is still going on.

Also, on your Deeds and Tactics, how "bendy" are you willing to get with what is semi-plausible. The reason I ask is, for example, I've thought about the idea of balance being so perfect as to, well, "stand" on air or walk on it. No, that is not possible... for us. Just depends on how far you are willing to push that envelope. From there, I'd love to help spitball some ideas, if you still need them. :smallsmile:

Have to say, so far, this looks pretty decent, and the warlock-ish approach is surprisingly effective.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Hey, just wanted to check in how this was doing and see if it is still going on.

Also, on your Deeds and Tactics, how "bendy" are you willing to get with what is semi-plausible. The reason I ask is, for example, I've thought about the idea of balance being so perfect as to, well, "stand" on air or walk on it. No, that is not possible... for us. Just depends on how far you are willing to push that envelope. From there, I'd love to help spitball some ideas, if you still need them. :smallsmile:

Have to say, so far, this looks pretty decent, and the warlock-ish approach is surprisingly effective.

Oh! No, it's not dead, it's just... erm... sleeping. <shifty eyes.>

"No flight" was one of my rules for the class, so I don't know about standing on air. Balancing on the narrowest ropes? Water? Sure. Clouds, maybe. But I don't think air. It would hardly be an unbalanced Heroic Deed, but... eh. I think it falls on the "impossible" side.

Now that I remember this, I'll try to keep working on new Deeds and Tactics. As always, I'm open to suggestions, so please, spitball away!

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

This gives me a bunch of ideas for something I've been working on, so I guess I'll pass along some stuff for you in return.

As a Thousand Men
Like Hercules and other heroes of lore, your capabilities far surpass that which should be humanly possible.

You can perform, in the space of a single full-round action, a task that would take a thousand men a full day to perform. In a day, you may perform a task that would take a thousand men a year to perform.

Acceptable tasks cannot involve combat, but constructing a fortification, building the Pyramids, diverting a river, and similar tasks are within your capability.

[jojolagger]

As a Thousand Men
Like Hercules and other heroes of lore, your capabilities far surpass that which should be humanly possible.

You can perform, in the space of a single full-round action, a task that would take a thousand men a full day to perform. In a day, you may perform a task that would take a thousand men a year to perform.

Acceptable tasks cannot involve combat, but constructing a fortification, building the Pyramids, diverting a river, and similar tasks are within your capability.
1. Do you realize this lets them do 100 gp worth of work as a full-round action?
2. Do you realize that 8 hours of full round actions is about 13 times more effective than using the day long one? 4,800,000 man-days vs. 365,000 man-days
3. And in that 8 hour span of full round actions, 480,000 gp of work would be done.
4. Also, I'm fairly sure this would let you personal repair the castle walls faster than a large collection of siege engines would harm them.

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

1. Do you realize this lets them do 100 gp worth of work as a full-round action?
2. Do you realize that 8 hours of full round actions is about 13 times more effective than using the day long one? 4,800,000 man-days vs. 365,000 man-days
3. And in that 8 hour span of full round actions, 480,000 gp of work would be done.
4. Also, I'm fairly sure this would let you personal repair the castle walls faster than a large collection of siege engines would harm them.

Sorry. I should have specified...I wasn't claiming it to be a finished, balanced idea. Just the shreds of one that could be utilized.

Clearly for-profit activity would need to be addressed...this is for redirecting rivers and building walls, not for making a hundred thousand swords or something to sell.

And yeah, I know the hours is more effective. Again, differentiating combat uses from non-combat uses would probably be appropriate.

As for number 4...is this a bad thing for a near-epic level Fighter type to be able to accomplish? I don't think so.

[JKTrickster]

Perhaps just add a clause that states that the Legend cannot gain any monetary profit from this ability? After all, Heroes are above that and all :smallbiggrin:

Because honestly, that ability is just too cool not to be included. :smallamused:

[silphael]

For the part about crafting swords, I would say that as long as:
-it is to "weaponized" (? can't find the proper word in english...) an army
-you aren't waiting for any economical counterpart of it, except maybe the quest recompenses;
it will be okay ^^

[Veklim]

To 'arm' or 'equip' an army would be acceptable English :smallbiggrin:

I entirely agree btw, Lokos (my fighter/crafter build) took weeks to equip a small militia, with this he could have done it and got down to training inside a day!

[Doorhandle]

1. Do you realize this lets them do 100 gp worth of work as a full-round action?
2. Do you realize that 8 hours of full round actions is about 13 times more effective than using the day long one? 4,800,000 man-days vs. 365,000 man-days
3. And in that 8 hour span of full round actions, 480,000 gp of work would be done.
4. Also, I'm fairly sure this would let you personal repair the castle walls faster than a large collection of siege engines would harm them.

1. I'm okay with this.
2. Just change the effect of the day-long one to the larger one.
3. Measuring it it G.P would be a good idea, but there is no listed cost for briges. Maybe mesure it in feet?
4. Duct tape can do anything. :smallbiggrin:

Maybe just make it a little slower?

[Baron Corm]

Magnificent Performer Style would be taken by almost every legend, I feel, because it makes him very SAD. You might want to just change all class features to be based off of Strength to begin with, to keep this from happening. Doesn't seem too beyond the power level of the class. Additionally, you could change what the their DCs are based off of with each style.

If you want to stay away from tier 2 (or even tier 1), I wouldn't give him any 8th or 9th level spells as deeds. They're at-will and (Ex), meaning if he gets enough of them, he'll probably end up being a wizard but better.

I also wouldn't give him the class skills of a rogue in that one deed - that just makes him a rogue but better in every way. He doesn't need to be a sneaky thief in addition to being a great warrior. The same goes for giving him Charisma to saves, it just isn't needed, when that's one of the biggest draws of paladin. If this class is meant to replace most other non-spellcasting classes, I guess it's fine.

Overall, feels very much like a warlock and a warblade combined. Well suited for a very high-powered campaign.

[The Tygre]

I positively love this class. I see a lot of Fighter fixes fly by, but yours' is one of the few I'd be genuinely willing to vouch for. Spectacular job!

[Grod_The_Giant]

Magnificent Performer Style would be taken by almost every legend, I feel, because it makes him very SAD. You might want to just change all class features to be based off of Strength to begin with, to keep this from happening. Doesn't seem too beyond the power level of the class. Additionally, you could change what the their DCs are based off of with each style.
I thought I was changing the DCs with the style? That might have gotten lost when I updated the ability, though.


If you want to stay away from tier 2 (or even tier 1), I wouldn't give him any 8th or 9th level spells as deeds. They're at-will and (Ex), meaning if he gets enough of them, he'll probably end up being a wizard but better.
Probably, yeah.


I also wouldn't give him the class skills of a rogue in that one deed - that just makes him a rogue but better in every way. He doesn't need to be a sneaky thief in addition to being a great warrior. The same goes for giving him Charisma to saves, it just isn't needed, when that's one of the biggest draws of paladin. If this class is meant to replace most other non-spellcasting classes, I guess it's fine.
Hmm. Good point about the rogue Deed; the Legend isn't really a stealth kind of guy... Charisma to saves is less of a distinctive paladin ability-- or at least it shouldn't be.

Thanks for the love, guys. Djinn, that's exactly the kind of awesome a high-level Deed should be. I'm working on some more deeds/tactics, based on charms from Exalted.

[Daverin]

Some ideas (quick thoughts without checking list, so if covered I apologize. Future posts will be better researched.)

- Interception move. Basically, if an ally is about to be attacked, the Legend can run to their defense, taking the hit AND then giving a counterattack to the opponent.

- A move that lets him basically attack until he misses, with a penalty to attack for each one after the first (either based on or distinct from the regular BAB.) Perhaps including the ability to move inbetween attacks as much as he wants for a penalty to attack.

- A buff that reduces the effects of various debuffs, such that if they have a "weaker" version, it turns to that; if not, it just lasts less or is weaker or something.

More to come.

[Salbazier]

My impression: Exalted in D&D. :smallbiggrin: Awesome!

Unstoppable Stride seems a bit too high for a heroic. Its three spell in one including a level 4 spell at level 6. At one the most important one at that. Should be legendary in my opinion.

On Giantkiller Strike and Trollkiller. This is undoubtedly good and necessary ability but I wonder if it is good to give them so early. Carrying bajillion kinds of weapons is a drag. But in moderation and at early level, tryong to bypass DR and stopping enemies from healing can add a bit depth to combat. Sure there is those maneuvers that I forgot it names from ToB but those are not available from level 1 AFAIK (perhaps I'm wrong, Haven't check) and not at will. I can't even remember if there's magic that give Trollkiller effect besides those that give Vile Damage.