spices, herbs, drugs and... substances

[Kol Korran]

in a new coming campaign one culture trades in highly rare and exotic kind of herbs, substances, concoctions, elixir and the like. these are not magical items (in the sense that they cannot be crafted, only grown/ gained otherwise) but might have similar effects.

what i need help with:
1- coming up with more ideas for such... delicacies.
2- trying to figure out how much they cost (the part i suck in especially)

the ideas should be, more than anything else, interesting to roleplay. my players are mostly into that. but some substances may also grant some sort of mechanical influences. they like that too! :smallwink: i'd rather not go into addiction mechanics now, but there may be drawbacks after use. again, i'd focus on "interesting" than powerful.

some ideas:
Dream spice: after eating the imbiber falls into sleep quite fast (within 10 minutes). the dream lasts about 1-4 hours, but is filled with powerful dreams, very high color, exquisite sound and senses, feeling quite real and powerful, entrancing. some people consider this a very powerful and shaking experience, some love it, some fear it, some all together. caution- the dreams may cause physical responses such as hearty palpitations, cessation of breath for short periods and the like, depending on the dream.

- cost?
- possible mechanic effects? (i was thinking of perhaps granting some XP, as the character process past experiences in a new light. a bit extreme, but might draw players to the experience?)
- Drawbacks: a slight chance of overwhelming dream, which damages you, somehow (wis damage/ drain?)

Rush: a red salty concoction that gives a great rush of adrenalin and makes the entire body ready to action. it makes the character nearly oblivious to danger, but also quite resistant to pain, fear, and debilitating effects. the imbiber feels exhilarated, powerful, invincible.

Rush lasts for 10x1d3 minutes.

- cost?
- possible mechanic effects? (i'm think of regenerating temp hp, a heavy bonus or immunity to fear, but perhaps reduction to AC and reflex save. i'd prefer to avoid the barbarian rage)
- Drawbacks: this effect tires the body (fatigue? con damage?) and after the Rush ends, most subects feel much more vulnerable and weak.

Sense: a substance that causes the imbiber to feel more attuned, more aware, more sensitive to social cues, facial expressions, subtext and the like. the imbiber becomes more loose of tongue, more talkative, but also more adept at it. the need to socialize, interact and the like grows steadily, but is also more rewarding. social awkwardness is greatly reduced, and the imbiber feels suave and competent.

lasts for 2d4 hours

- cost?
- possible mechanic effect: increased social skills and sense motive
- Drawbacks: while under the effects, suffer a negative modifier to enchantment effects. also, once the effect is off, the imbiber can't stand anyone near him for 1 hour.

Dragon: called that way due to the extreme hot and dry breath of the subjects taking it. a narcotic that shuts out the subject to the real world, making them feel great sensations of either flight, diving, running exhiliratingly long distances and so on- a great sense of exploration, speed and vitality.

the trip lasts 1d6x10 minutes

- cost?
- mechanical effects: the targets becomes immobilized for the duration, but afterwards are as rested as a full night's sleep (not including healing) and are considered much more refreshed, gaining +2 to perception for 1d6 hours.
- Drawbacks: continuous use might cause degeneration of nerve system (dex drain)

Spirit elixir: taking this substance most people say they become connected to the spirit world, can talk with long lost ones and so on. though they function in this world, most of their senses seem elsewhere.

lasts for 2d4x10 minutes

- cost?
- mechanical effects: ability to see the unseen, detect undead, elementals and spirit creatures. includes the ability to communicate with them. if appropriate, the character might meet a deceased spirit and ask it questions, similarly to the "speak with dead" spell.
- drawbacks: while under the effect the character has a serious negative modifier to perception checks in the "real world" and enemies have concealment against it. after the effects ends many subjects develop (will save?) a deep depression for some time.

other ideas? :smallwink:

(search word: Piratewitch)

[Acanous]

an important thing to remember when dealing with D&D Pricing is that the economy is based on the silver piece, not the gold. Something that costs $100 IRL is (Very loosely) 1GP. So if you're looking at say, the price of street drugs for a comparison, these things will be very few GP, closely related to the pricing of alchemical items.

Of course, depending on supply and the value to adventurers, prices can go up (Such as with Adamantine full plate, which is cost-equivolent to building a suit out of uranium)
So I'd suggest that most of these items range from 1-100 GP, with something outlandishly rare, thought to be extravagant and only for the very rich at the 100 GP mark.

You already have some drawbacks to balance the low-cost of the items, and as far as the XP-granting Dream spice, the more you take, the more you get. For that, there already IS a ratio- 25 GP is equal to 1 XP. So 25 GP per dose.

For your Rush idea, it sounds like the stuff actually makes you next to insensate, disconnecting you from your body. I'd suggest a penalty to initiative and reflex saves, with a boost to fortitude and some temporary hit points (2D10?) -4 seems about right for the penalties, with +2 bonus. That'd account for it being relatively cheap- the penalties outweigh the bonuses, but situationally it can be good.
10 GP would be my suggestion here, if you go with -4 init/ref, +2HD/Fort.
I'd also suggest it fatigue you after use.

I'm not sure if Sense is more like Speed or Alcohol, but I could definately see the rich and flighty making use of it often at parties. Can't really see commoners using it a lot, so this is probably the rare stuff. 100 GP per dose, and an alchemical +2 bonus on all charisma-based skill checks.
When it wears off, you're liable to suffer a D4 of Charisma damage.
Like a really bad hangover.

Dragon- is really hard to peg. If that "Considered rested" means they can re-prepare spells? The Wizarding world will fight to the death for this, and you could base an entire campaign around it.
Otherwise, price is the same as a casting of Lesser restoration, because that's basically what it is.

Spirit Elixer- OK, this seems to duplicate quite a few different spells. True Seeing, Speak with Dead, and Tongues. Some of those are pretty dang high level. I'd suggest this is actually a combination of a number of rare regeants, which are then specially treated, and must be imbibed in a cerimonious fashion in order to function, with a mishap table if you take it on the fly. As far as pricing goes, it's effectively a potion of True Seeing+Speak with Dead+tongues, and would run in the thousands of GP. Real-world, having that kind of ability would ALSO run more than thousands of dollars.
I'd suggest it be somewhere between 5000-8000 GP.

[The Dark Fiddler]

Rush: a red salty concoction that gives a great rush of adrenalin and makes the entire body ready to action. it makes the character nearly oblivious to danger, but also quite resistant to pain, fear, and debilitating effects. the imbiber feels exhilarated, powerful, invincible.

This sounds incredibly like either temporary Damage Reduction or a delayed damage pool, such as what the Crusader has. Maybe grant DR, but have the character take the damage prevented by it once the effects wear off. This means that a character can take this drug, take huge amounts of punishment, and drop dead or fall unconscious from the strain after the drug wears off, which seems appropriate to me, personally. Small bonus to saves, especially to saves against fear, seems good as well.

[Telonius]

Dream Spice - I'd say that you might have some percentage chance of it affecting you as though it were a Legend Lore spell (using the "know only rumors" version), a Nightmare spell targeted at you, or a small chance of affecting you as though it were an automatically-successful Vision spell.

Other mechanical effect: you fall asleep within 1d4 minutes, and fall asleep for four hours, awaking completely refreshed. You gain the mechanical benefits as though you'd had 8 full hours of sleep, including hit point recovery. However, this is taxing on your body. On the next night of sleep, make a fortitude save (DC = 10 + number of consecutive nights taking Dream Spice) or be fatigued for 24 hours upon waking. An additional dose of Dream Spice removes the need for making the fortitude save.

Dream Spice is extremely addictive. A character may consume Dream Spice for a number of consecutive days equal to his Constitution score. On the next dose (and any subsequent consecutive doses) the character must make a DC 25 Fortitude save or become addicted. Characters taking more than one dose within a 24 hour period must also make a fortitude save or become addicted. Upon waking, an addicted character must make a Will save (DC = number of consecutive doses of Dream Spice) or feel an overwhelming urge to immediately take a dose of the spice. If no dose is at hand, the character will do everything within his power to obtain one for a period of 24 hours. During this time, the character will not stop to eat or sleep. Many Dream Spice addicts - especially those with several doses available - die of thirst or starvation. A Ring of Sustenance can keep a Dream Spice addict alive, but the drug will still cause the character to sleep for four hours (regardless of the Ring's 2-hour property).

Dream Spice is ineffective on Elves and other characters that trance or otherwise do not sleep.

[Pancritic]

I'm not a big fan of the book, but Book of Vile Darkness had 3e rules for drugs (and addiction), as I recall.

If you have access to it, the old Middle-Earth Roleplaying rules from ICE had extensive rules for herbs of all kinds that shouldn't be too hard to convert to D20.

[Kol Korran]

an important thing to remember when dealing with D&D Pricing is that the economy is based on the silver piece, not the gold. Something that costs $100 IRL is (Very loosely) 1GP. So if you're looking at say, the price of street drugs for a comparison, these things will be very few GP, closely related to the pricing of alchemical items.

Of course, depending on supply and the value to adventurers, prices can go up (Such as with Adamantine full plate, which is cost-equivolent to building a suit out of uranium)
So I'd suggest that most of these items range from 1-100 GP, with something outlandishly rare, thought to be extravagant and only for the very rich at the 100 GP mark.

i'm less worried about in game balance, (of which i sort of gave up) and more worried that the influences will be balanced with the funds of the (admittedly ridiculously rich) PCs.


You already have some drawbacks to balance the low-cost of the items, and as far as the XP-granting Dream spice, the more you take, the more you get. For that, there already IS a ratio- 25 GP is equal to 1 XP. So 25 GP per dose.
hhhmm... that does feel like a "street- drug", i may need to balance it against the drawbacks i guess... 25 gp/ 1xp is not bad, but i don't want the ratio to be set.

my thoughts are that the spice has a certain percentage to cause "great insight/ revelations" (different scales of XP) but also a percentage of nightmare/ draw backs/ wis drain. the better the quality, the higher the odds of revelation, the lower the odds of nightmare.


For your Rush idea, it sounds like the stuff actually makes you next to insensate, disconnecting you from your body. I'd suggest a penalty to initiative and reflex saves, with a boost to fortitude and some temporary hit points (2D10?) -4 seems about right for the penalties, with +2 bonus. That'd account for it being relatively cheap- the penalties outweigh the bonuses, but situationally it can be good.
10 GP would be my suggestion here, if you go with -4 init/ref, +2HD/Fort.
I'd also suggest it fatigue you after use.
the idea was to make it something that warriors of various cultures (most likely of the barbarian mind set, or barbarian- wanna- be) would actually value. 10 gp seems a bit too cheap to me, and i'd like the bonuses to outweigh the penalties. the idea is a lucrative warrior drug.


I'm not sure if Sense is more like Speed or Alcohol, but I could definately see the rich and flighty making use of it often at parties. Can't really see commoners using it a lot, so this is probably the rare stuff. 100 GP per dose, and an alchemical +2 bonus on all charisma-based skill checks.
When it wears off, you're liable to suffer a D4 of Charisma damage.
Like a really bad hangover.
this sounds like a good idea.


Dragon- is really hard to peg. If that "Considered rested" means they can re-prepare spells? The Wizarding world will fight to the death for this, and you could base an entire campaign around it.
Otherwise, price is the same as a casting of Lesser restoration, because that's basically what it is.

actually, the idea IS to make it lucrative to casters. but also just a great recreational drug. the idea is that it is expensive, but it's degenerative properties (dex damage or drain) mean that people should use it cautiously. i do think it should be expensive.

perhaps i should have clarified better.


Spirit Elixer- OK, this seems to duplicate quite a few different spells. True Seeing, Speak with Dead, and Tongues. Some of those are pretty dang high level. I'd suggest this is actually a combination of a number of rare regeants, which are then specially treated, and must be imbibed in a cerimonious fashion in order to function, with a mishap table if you take it on the fly. As far as pricing goes, it's effectively a potion of True Seeing+Speak with Dead+tongues, and would run in the thousands of GP. Real-world, having that kind of ability would ALSO run more than thousands of dollars.
I'd suggest it be somewhere between 5000-8000 GP.

it doesn't give true sight, more like see invisibility. it gives tongues only concerning the dead person you speak to, but not in general. i like the idea of a special ceremony needed (which might be kept a secret by the sellers). i think it should cost quite a penny, but not as much as you suggest. more on the likes of... 2000-3000? :smallconfused:

Thank you Acanous for your detailed response. it helped me think of this better. do you have suggestions for other ingredients?
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This sounds incredibly like either temporary Damage Reduction or a delayed damage pool, such as what the Crusader has. Maybe grant DR, but have the character take the damage prevented by it once the effects wear off. This means that a character can take this drug, take huge amounts of punishment, and drop dead or fall unconscious from the strain after the drug wears off, which seems appropriate to me, personally. Small bonus to saves, especially to saves against fear, seems good as well.

hhhmmmm... i think i'd like the idea of temp DR combined with temporary hp/ hd as Acanous mentioned. i'd like to introduce mechanics the party is used to mostly (they haven't used the delayed damage pool yet)
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Dream Spice - I'd say that you might have some percentage chance of it affecting you as though it were a Legend Lore spell (using the "know only rumors" version), a Nightmare spell targeted at you, or a small chance of affecting you as though it were an automatically-successful Vision spell.
hhmmmm, interesting choices. i'd like to roleplay the dream of course, and therefor thought it might gain XP if the chance permits. but using legend lore and vision might be very interesting indeed. i've never used these spells, and their definitions are kind of vague, but perhaps they will do.

it may change it from dream spice to vision spice.


Other mechanical effect: you fall asleep within 1d4 minutes, and fall asleep for four hours, awaking completely refreshed. You gain the mechanical benefits as though you'd had 8 full hours of sleep, including hit point recovery. However, this is taxing on your body. On the next night of sleep, make a fortitude save (DC = 10 + number of consecutive nights taking Dream Spice) or be fatigued for 24 hours upon waking. An additional dose of Dream Spice removes the need for making the fortitude save.
i'd prefer not to fatigue the characters. it doesn't seem to add to the game to me. i'd prefer the drawbacks to be part of the dreaming itself. something more... immediate.


Dream Spice is extremely addictive. A character may consume Dream Spice for a number of consecutive days equal to his Constitution score. On the next dose (and any subsequent consecutive doses) the character must make a DC 25 Fortitude save or become addicted. Characters taking more than one dose within a 24 hour period must also make a fortitude save or become addicted. Upon waking, an addicted character must make a Will save (DC = number of consecutive doses of Dream Spice) or feel an overwhelming urge to immediately take a dose of the spice. If no dose is at hand, the character will do everything within his power to obtain one for a period of 24 hours. During this time, the character will not stop to eat or sleep. Many Dream Spice addicts - especially those with several doses available - die of thirst or starvation. A Ring of Sustenance can keep a Dream Spice addict alive, but the drug will still cause the character to sleep for four hours (regardless of the Ring's 2-hour property).
loved the addiction idea, though i'd change it to Con modifier instead of Con score. also, this requires more incentive than legend lore to be used repeatedly.

i think i will check shadowrun's addiction rules as well. they deal well with this stuff if i remember.

thanks Telonius! i liked your twists on this stuff. any ideas for more substances and herbs?
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I'm not a big fan of the book, but Book of Vile Darkness had 3e rules for drugs (and addiction), as I recall.

If you have access to it, the old Middle-Earth Roleplaying rules from ICE had extensive rules for herbs of all kinds that shouldn't be too hard to convert to D20.

i have neither. :smallfrown: oh well, thanks for the suggestion.

[RndmNumGen]

Have you looked at Pathfinder's drugs (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/afflictions/drugs)? They're not great, but... they could give a frame of reference of a couple ideas. The layout is good, but my main gripe with them is the bonuses are so small and temporary it's almost like imbibing addictive poison(which, granted, drugs kind of are, but not on the scale that 5-6 shots of a moderate drug will KILL YOU).