Flat Footed

[chomskola]

Simple question, are the actors who get to take actions in the suprise round flat footed, or not?

[holywhippet]

The Surprise Round

If some but not all of the combatants are aware of their opponents, a surprise round happens before regular rounds begin. Any combatants aware of the opponents can act in the surprise round, so they roll for initiative. In initiative order (highest to lowest), combatants who started the battle aware of their opponents each take a standard action during the surprise round. You can also take free actions during the surprise round. If no one or everyone is surprised, no surprise round occurs.

Unaware Combatants

Combatants who are unaware at the start of battle don’t get to act in the surprise round. Unaware combatants are flat-footed because they have not acted yet, so they lose any Dexterity bonus to AC.


So no. Only people who are completelt surprised by the start of combat (ie. the unaware ones) are flat footed. Everyone else is as normal, although they can only take a standard action (and free actions).

[chomskola]

The confusion lies in the fact that they state unaware combatants are flat footed, but dont assert the converse, that aware opponents are not flat-footed, I'd swear i've seen the other case asserted on the net somewhere :( :( :(

[DonEsteban]

I think you're mistaken. From the SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/initiative.htm):

At the start of a battle, before you have had a chance to act (specifically, before your first regular turn in the initiative order), you are flat-footed. You can’t use your Dexterity bonus to AC (if any) while flat-footed.
The above-cited text about the surprise round doesn't contradict this.

You're lat-footed until your first turn. Whether your first turn occurs in the surprise round, or not, is irrelevant.

Edit: We are talking about 3rd ed. here, aren't we? Because I realized that you're in the wrong forum for it.

[Synovia]

So no. Only people who are completelt surprised by the start of combat (ie. the unaware ones) are flat footed. Everyone else is as normal, although they can only take a standard action (and free actions).

I disagree.

The rule states
At the start of a battle, before you have had a chance to act (specifically, before your first regular turn in the initiative order), you are flat-footed.

If it hasn't hit your initiative yet, you're flat footed, whether you're aware of the opponent or not.

[D+1]

EVERYONE is flat-footed until they take their first action in a combat. Surprise only affects when anybody's first action can happen.

[chomskola]

I guess i'm kinda shocked that such a basic game element could be completely disagreed with, is suprise round and flat footedness an aspect that stretches very far in DnD past editions?

[Fitz10019]

I guess i'm kinda shocked that such a basic game element could be completely disagreed with, is suprise round and flat footedness an aspect that stretches very far in DnD past editions?

It's not disagreement, really. It's just that holywhippet was oversimplifying. The others covered the gap in his explanation.

[Curmudgeon]

EVERYONE is flat-footed until they take their first action in a combat. Surprise only affects when anybody's first action can happen.
This is mostly correct. There's an exception, though.
Uncanny Dodge (Ex): Starting at 2nd level, a scout cannot be caught flat-footed and reacts to danger before her senses would normally allow her to do so. This is a more powerful class ability than the one Rogues and Barbarians get; their Uncanny Dodge doesn't include the red part.