Maximum Equipment for 4000gp

[J.Gellert]

We're starting a new D&D 3.5 campaign, at 3rd level, with 4000 gold.

I'll be playing a Paladin, straight class, giving up at the mount at level 5 for Charging smite.

Stats are 16-12-12-10-14-16. I've decided on feats so that's done.

The question: What's the best equipment I can get for 4000 pieces of gold?

The plan so far:

I already have Craft weapon/armor skills high enough to have theoretically forged my own masterwork armor and sword (knocking them down to 1/3rd of the price).

I am also adding "usable only by Lawful Good" to any enchantments (multiplies cost *0,7).

This way I can get Full Plate +1, Large Shield +1 and Longsword +1, and still have more than 300 gold left. It's not bad, but I bet someone can do better.

Anything else I can do, or another way to do this altogether?

(All WotC books allowed, no magazines or 3rd party material. And fluff is important - no tricks like paying with souls :smalltongue:)

[Larkas]

Just keep in mind that, generally speaking, the maximum cost for any item should be roughly equal to WBL/4. A Full Plate without any enchantments already blows your single item budget by more than 50%.

[J.Gellert]

Interesting, but as no one in the group has brought this up, I'll assume we're going to be lax about it.

If you craft it alone, the 1650 MW fullplate is only 550, so even enchanted +1 (only LG, so 700gp) it's only 25% over 1000 :smalltongue:

[JadePhoenix]

Well, if you can buy custom items like it seems you can, don't use published items at all.
Just get an amulet that grants permanent Wraithstrike, a Rhino Rush wand and go to town.

[Larkas]

The real WBL at 3rd is actually 2700. Divided by four, you have 675 :smallwink:

Don't worry about it if the group will be lax about it. I'd just warn the DM, though, I've made that mistake once before and was way over my head with my players for a few encounters until I found out what was going on.

[Diarmuid]

Have you verified with your DM that the alignment restriction is "OK" for your magic items? Those guidelines are really intended for limiting items...not simply making items that are really awesome for you and not for someone else.

Doing what you're doing is essentially multiplying your starting gold by 1.3 and is potentially not what your DM had in mind. And simply because no one has brought up a "no 1 item can account for more than X% of your WBL" doesnt mean the DM isnt working under that kind of assumption. Rather than simply thinking "eh, no one said anything so this must be OK", again check with your DM.

[J.Gellert]

I've asked, everything goes, but I personally draw the line at the permanent Wraithstrike :smallbiggrin:

Rhino Rush Wand does sound good though. I only dislike using up a hand for it.

[Larkas]

Just for the record, you can find that piece of ruling in the DMG, pg. 199 under "Magic Items as Gear", along with table 5-1 in pg. 135.

As for the wand, I think there was an enchantment somewhere that let you put a wand inside your weapon... Can't remember where I've read about it, though.

[J.Gellert]

I'm reading on wands now, and it looks like casting from a wand is at least a Standard Action, so I'd get no benefit from a Rhino's Rush wand.


Wands use the spell trigger activation method, so casting a spell from a wand is usually a standard action that doesn’t provoke attacks of opportunity. (If the spell being cast, however, has a longer casting time than 1 standard action, it takes that long to cast the spell from a wand.)

[JadePhoenix]

Rhino Rush Wand does sound good though. I only dislike using up a hand for it.

Wandchambers, in Dungeonscape.


I'm reading on wands now, and it looks like casting from a wand is at least a Standard Action, so I'd get no benefit from a Rhino's Rush wand.
Rules Compendium changes that rule.

[J.Gellert]

Sounds good, and the party's Cleric owns Dungeonscape, I'll remember to ask :smallsmile:

[JeminiZero]

The question: What's the best equipment I can get for 4000 pieces of gold?

What counts as "best" is relative to what your character can already do, and what it needs to shore up its weaknesses. For example, as a full paladin, who can lay on hands for 9 whole points, another source of healing (such as a healing belt) while undoubtedly useful, is *probably* less important than something that can keep you from being turned into a puppet by dominate paladin (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0516.html).


I am also adding "usable only by Lawful Good" to any enchantments (multiplies cost *0,7).

This way I can get Full Plate +1, Large Shield +1 and Longsword +1, and still have more than 300 gold left. It's not bad, but I bet someone can do better.

While crafting can be done by any mundane character, actual magical arms and armor (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/creatingMagicItems.htm#creatingMagicArmor) requires a feat (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#craftMagicArmsAndArmor) and sucks up XP.

It also requires you to have a caster level of 3. And as a paladin:


Through 3rd level, a paladin has no caster level. At 4th level and higher, her caster level is one-half her paladin level.

[J.Gellert]

About the "best": I know, that's why I said a few words about my build.

As for the crafted items, I can buy whatever I want and the temple has crafted them for me, but of course I don't get the 50% discount I'd get if I had crafted them myself (and I've thought about that, but there's no way).

[JeminiZero]

Well, here's a few items I think you could use:

Fast Torch: Lightable torch as a swift action. Use it to finish off trolls, and burn away webs. 5 gp each, also craftable.

Auran Mask [Complete Mage 134]: You wear heavy armor, and if ever you wind up underwater, this will save your life for 60 gp. Or craft for 20 gp.

Everburning Ring (As Everburning Torch, but cast on a wearable ring instead oa large easily dropped block of wood): May or may not be important depending on your race. But generally, Dungeons are dark places. If you have temple discount, you might be able to get this for 55 gp.

Everlasting Rations/Everful Mug (MiC): May or may not be useful depending on how severely your DM enforces starvation/thirst rules. May also be redundant if you have a Cleric that regularly preps Create Water. If you don't, while trail rations may be cheap and fairly portable, carrying several days worth of water is way more cumbersome, and liable to be lost to a single lucky puncture attack.

Anklets of Translocation: Good for everybody. Escape grapples/immobilizing areas of effects, also a poor-man's pounce.

Wand of Resurgence [SpC]: Resurgence is easily one of the best level 1 status-effect removal spells around, that is on the Paladin list. This little nugget can even break baleful polymorph. But sadly, not poison or disease. Put in a wand so that you can cast it till it works.

[Taelas]

Just keep in mind that, generally speaking, the maximum cost for any item should be roughly equal to WBL/4. A Full Plate without any enchantments already blows your single item budget by more than 50%.

This is a suggestion, not a hard rule.

[J.Gellert]

Wand of Resurgence sounds awesome. I guess I need to take another look at the paladin spells from the Spell Compendium.

I was considering the everlasting rations (and am currently carrying 7 days worth of trail rations) but I might end up inclined to just give them to a starving peasant :smalltongue:

Edit: Oh Resurgence is awesome! And like Rhino's Rush, one of the spells where caster level doesn't matter. Writing this down.

[JadePhoenix]

This is a suggestion, not a hard rule.

Then again... WBL is a guideline, not a hard rule.

[Darrin]

Talk to Shax (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=148101). Type I Haversack is 5739 GP, so that's somewhat in the neighborhood of your price range.

[ericgrau]

I wouldn't get a +1 weapon quite yet unless you expect magical DR. You only get +1 damage not +1 to hit so it's not really worth it. Instead I would get a masterwork cold iron longsword and a masterwork silver longsword in case of DR. +1 armor and a +1 shield OTOH is a great deal as it effectively gives foes -2 to hit for the same price. So keep those. If you look at the tables in the back of the magic item compendium, they have armor enchantments, armor crystals and weapon crystals (even for masterwork weapons) sorted by cost. So at the top you can find the cheap ones and see if there's anything you like. If the party doesn't have a healer you can get a wand of cure light wounds or lesser vigor for 750 gp. At this low level resurgence has a 50:50 shot of removing a minor debuff so I wouldn't waste your money nor you combat rounds on it yet. Maybe I'd get 2 scrolls on the off chance it gets used once.

Next comes one shot consumables. On the rare chance of facing magical DR I'd get 1 or 2 oil of magic weapon at 50 gp each. A regular club (0 gp) and 3 or 4 shillelagh oil (50 gp each) is also handy for times when you get a buffing round (otherwise don't; the wasted time will make you lose damage). At 2d6+1 it averages 3-4 more damage than your longsword and also beats magical DR, but not magic & silver nor magic & cold iron. Another consideration if you get 2 buffing rounds might be 1 or 2 potions of protection from evil (50 gp each) for +2 AC and +2 saves. Since these are so cheap don't hesitate to buy replacements for the ones you used the moment you're in town. If you have extra money leftover you might start with more. While expensive at 300 gp, one potion of invisibility or maybe potion of cure moderate wounds is good to have in case of emergency.

Finally there are mundane items. The basic essentials are: Waterskin, backpack, trail rations, bedroll, flint and steel, belt pouch and whetstone. You should also consider a piece of chalk, light source, knotted rope and a grappling hook.

[Chronos]

Everburning Ring (As Everburning Torch, but cast on a wearable ring instead oa large easily dropped block of wood): May or may not be important depending on your race. But generally, Dungeons are dark places. If you have temple discount, you might be able to get this for 55 gp.
With the added bonus that it makes it look like your fist is on fire, which is always cool.

[Deox]

Ioun Stone for Continual Flame is dirt cheap and an always on effect for a light source.

[Telonius]

If your DM likes messing with Paladins, a Phylactery of Faithfulness might be a good buy.

[J.Gellert]

@Darrin: Lots of good stuff there. Handy things for left-over gold.

@ericgrau: That's very insightful and sounds true. I'm reconsidering the +1 sword, though I do have to have a magic blade sometime just for the style. But is Cold Iron that important? I did actually consider it, but there are so many ways to get past DR...

Perhaps I should consider, how many things have DR at CR 3 anyway?

I like the Protection from Evil idea, but I'll get scrolls instead. Half the cost, plus I can pin them to my shield and look like a Warhammer figure. Dammit, foiled by the caster level...

@Telonius: I don't really fear that :)

I'm now considering just having Continual Flame cast on my sword or something.

As for mundane items: I already carry all the standard stuff, plus a shovel, a sewing needle, soap, and a greataxe as an all-around useful tool (chopping wood, breaking doors, that kind of thing) and a backup waterskin so I think I'm all set.

[ericgrau]

You might never use the cold iron ability or the silver (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialMaterials.htm#ironCold), but you'll be in deep trouble if you need it and don't have it. A masterwork cold iron longsword costs 630 gp; 315 gp more than a masterwork one. A masterwork silver longsword costs 405 gp. If you're tight on money you should at least get non-masterwork versions since they cost almost nothing. But I think it's going to be a long time before you get a serious magic weapon, hitting things with pointy metal is the main thing you do, and DR will be more common in the future so at some point you should get masterwork versions of these. Gauntlets of ogre power and boots of speed are the next offensive things to get and so will delay your +2 equivalent (e.g. +1 shocking) longsword even longer unless your DM hands you one. So you can afford variety on your cheap weapons.

I also like silver armor spikes in case of grappling vampires. You could at least get non-masterwork spikes for almost nothing. You can also use them normally without grappling.

At this level (or really level 4-6) DR/silver or DR/cold iron is more likely than DR/magic, but I also suggested oil of magic weapon for a measly 50 gp just in case you do fight DR/magic or incorporeal foes.

[J.Gellert]

The thing is, the DM has said he's not going to give us any magic items - instead we'll simply get gold to buy them, or to upgrade our own stuff.

Now I may be wrong, but I think upgrading a cold steel sword costs an extra 2000 gold every time...

[ericgrau]

Correct. I would not upgrade the cold iron longsword into a magic weapon later. I'd get a 3rd sword. But like I said that could be a while. EDIT: Ah, well fun > doing optimal things first. Then I would simply get a regular steel or adamantine valorous sword on top of a masterwork cold iron and masterwork silver weapon. By the time you can afford valorous the MW costs will be nothing.

[J.Gellert]

I kind of want a Valorous sword though :smallredface:

[Chained Birds]

Hmm, ever ask if you could play a PF Paladin? At level 5 they get the choice of either a mount or bonding their weapon and turning it magical. Look to the SRD for more info if you are interested.

[J.Gellert]

I know Pathfinder, but I'm the only one in the group who does and I can't get away with stuff outside strictly 3.5.

For example, I normally DM a vastly improved version of the game. However this time we agreed on 3.5, so here I am, honoring it. :smalltongue:

Besides, Pathfinder's classes assume a different baseline for balance, so it wouldn't even feel right to me.

[Taelas]

Then again... WBL is a guideline, not a hard rule.

Not really, no. The WBL chart is what a character should have, based on averages. Yes, it's a guideline, but only because it can't be concrete.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Get the Continual Flame cast on an object mounted on the front of your shield, such as a skull (preferably from an evil outsider). Be sure to buy a Heightened Continual Flame, so it automatically overcomes darkness effects of a lower spell level. A 9th level Continual Flame costs 1580 gp, a bit out of your price range but definitely something to look into getting later.

A character with racial spell-like abilities can use that caster level to qualify for item creation feats, regardless of class. Craft Arms/Armor requires a caster level of 5th though, so it would still take some shenanigans to start with that at 3rd level.

I'd probably not use a shield, get the +1 armor and a +1 Greatsword (for Power Attack + Rhino's Rush + Charging Smite), and pick up a Healing Belt (MIC). You can still do the Wand Chamber with a Wand of Rhino's Rush. You could even take a different class at 1st level to get Jump as a class skill, to take Leap Attack at 6th. Good choices include Warblade, Crusader, OA Samurai*, or even Fighter.

*With OA Samurai you get a masterwork weapon for free, and you can sacrifice goods to put their value toward its magical properties. With Craft: Smelting and Craft: Armorsmithing, you can buy 156 gp worth of ore, smelt it to 468 gp worth of metal ingots, and turn that into 1404 gp worth of armor and shields, then sacrifice that 1404 gp to make it a +1 weapon that can only be used by a LG wielder. You can also buy mundane weapons and armor out of the party loot pool at 1/2 price (and get a portion back when cash gets divided) and sacrifice their full value into your weapon as well. Also remember that there's no limit to how much value your weapon can hold, it just can't have a higher enhancement bonus than what the level progression shows (which is based on character level, not class level). You can even put flat-price properties on it ahead of time, such as Sudden Stunning (DMG2), Everbright (MIC), and Blurring/Displacement (OA), and don't forget they'll be at 70% of the normal cost for the alignment restriction.

Edit: Get the Heightened Continual Flame cast on your hair.

[Chained Birds]

I know Pathfinder, but I'm the only one in the group who does and I can't get away with stuff outside strictly 3.5.

For example, I normally DM a vastly improved version of the game. However this time we agreed on 3.5, so here I am, honoring it. :smalltongue:

Besides, Pathfinder's classes assume a different baseline for balance, so it wouldn't even feel right to me.

I get it, just wanted to throw that out there considering you were having trouble deciding between a magic sword or other niceties.

Just think of me like that guy who mentions ToB stuff is PF threads. :smalltongue:

I'd just go with the oils and a plain old [Insert weapon of choice]. You will eventually get spells and can cast Magic Weapon when needed, or carry around some scrolls of MW and hope to not fight anything with DR til you reach the necessary level to be able to use scrolls.

[JadePhoenix]

Not really, no. The WBL chart is what a character should have, based on averages. Yes, it's a guideline, but only because it can't be concrete.

I'm simply not gonna argue that. You admitted yourself it's a guideline.

[Larkas]

This is a suggestion, not a hard rule.

Not really, no. The suggested maximum cost per item is what a character should have, based on averages. Yes, it's a guideline, but only because it can't be concrete. :smallwink:

I only jest, of course, and don't mean to disprove anything you said. You are indeed right, but a balanced game, whatever that means, shouldn't deviate much from those guidelines/suggestions. :smallsmile: But if the OP's group isn't following them, just let him go wild and buy whatever he can get away with!

[J.Gellert]

@Biff: All is sound advice, but I'm not really looking to change my build. I've gone the ubercharger way once with a mounted fighter, so I'll try something with more options :smallsmile: Continual flame on a trophy sounds awesome though and fits the concept very much.

Continual flame on the hair perhaps less so. Walking hair product ad? :D

Smelting and ore prices - where can I find these?

@Chained Birds: Yeah, I'm leaning towards the oils myself - I can always upgrade later on, depending on how generous the DM is with gold. I imagine I will get plenty of chances.

Also, on bypassing DR, is Silversheen worth it?

[Chained Birds]

Also, on bypassing DR, is Silversheen worth it?

Sorta... But just carrying a Silver dagger would probably be best.

[Invader]

I generally stay clear of magic items/armor for the first few levels. I think you're infinitely more useful with a HHH and 1000gp worth of mundane items that a +1 weapon or armor.

[ericgrau]

Also, on bypassing DR, is Silversheen worth it?
Yes... after you get a major magic weapon that does much more damage than a masterwork one. For now a masterwork silver weapon is cheaper, infinite-use and doesn't take a round to apply. Or a regular silver weapon costs almost nothing.

[J.Gellert]

Good, because I've already got a silver dagger written down.