[PF] Unarmed Strike Magus?

[blackmage]

I'm making a Magus that fights with Improved Unarmed Strike instead of using weapons. Just a fun thing, he looks like an unarmed squishy wizard but he can bash your face in! But maybe a problem...the description of the Arcane Pool ability says he can enhance a weapon he is holding by spending pool points. Can he enhance his unarmed strike after taking IUS? Or is it like the Magic Weapon spell, and he'd need a level of Monk so his fists count as 'weapons'?

Same question for the Arcane Strike feat.

[grarrrg]

I say bite the bullet and dip Monk for 1 level.
Sohei (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/monk/archetypes/paizo---monk-archetypes/sohei) is nice, you can always act in the Surprise Round (it also grants Light Armor prof. in case you took the Spire Defender (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/magus/archetypes/paizo---magus-archetypes/spire-defender) Magus archetype)

Or Master of Many Styles (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/monk/archetypes/paizo---monk-archetypes/master-of-many-styles) to get a Style feat as your Bonus.
I recommend Kirin Style (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/kirin-style-combat-style), as a Swift action you can make a Knowledge check to get defensive bonuses against a creature.
But more importantly, you can then take Kirin Strike (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/kirin-strike-combat):

While using Kirin Style against a creature you have identified using that feat, as a swift action after you have hit a creature with a melee or ranged attack, you can add twice your Intelligence modifier in damage (minimum 2).

It may be worth 2 levels of Master of Many Styles to get Kirin Strike as early as level 2!

The final Kirin feat, Kirin Path (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/kirin-path-combat) is less useful, but has potential.

[Waker]

grarrrg, you once more make an excellent suggestion. But why struggle between Sohei or Master of Many Styles when you could choose both? The archetypes can be combined, since they don't exchange the same abilities. The closest they come is MomS gives different options for bonus feats while Sohei adds Mounted Combat as a feat.
Getting two levels of monk is decent though. Evasion is always useful and you get Knowledge (Religion) which is especially useful if you grabbed the Kirin style. Since you do have the Fuse Styles ability, I would suggest that at 1st and 2nd level you grab Kirin Style and Kirin Strike, but later on grab Monkey or Snake style. I prefer Snake Style myself, but Monkey is quite nice.

[RndmNumGen]

I say bite the bullet and dip Monk for 1 level.
Sohei (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/monk/archetypes/paizo---monk-archetypes/sohei) is nice, you can always act in the Surprise Round (it also grants Light Armor prof. in case you took the Spire Defender (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/magus/archetypes/paizo---magus-archetypes/spire-defender) Magus archetype)

Or Master of Many Styles (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/monk/archetypes/paizo---monk-archetypes/master-of-many-styles) to get a Style feat as your Bonus.
I recommend Kirin Style (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/kirin-style-combat-style), as a Swift action you can make a Knowledge check to get defensive bonuses against a creature.
But more importantly, you can then take Kirin Strike (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/kirin-strike-combat):


It may be worth 2 levels of Master of Many Styles to get Kirin Strike as early as level 2!

The final Kirin feat, Kirin Path (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/kirin-path-combat) is less useful, but has potential.
The only problem with this is that a LOT of Magus abilities require Swift Actions to use - Arcane Pool, Spell Recall, Arcane Strike - and some others need Immediate Actions. Kirin Style and Kirin Strike both require a Swift Action to use as well, which means when using Kirin Style you're not using your Magus abilities and visa versa.

[grarrrg]

The only problem with this is that a LOT of Magus abilities require Swift Actions to use - Arcane Pool, Spell Recall, Arcane Strike - and some others need Immediate Actions. Kirin Style and Kirin Strike both require a Swift Action to use as well, which means when using Kirin Style you're not using your Magus abilities and visa versa.

Arcane Pool has a duration of 1 minute, so it only costs 1 Swift action every 10 rounds.

Spell Recall I'll give you, this is the biggest competition, but I will point out that most of the Archetypes trade it away, so it might not be a problem.

Arcane Strike is good if you want/need the to-hit boost, otherwise Kirin Strike has better damage. Also, you have to commit to Arcane Strike before you attack, whereas you only spend the Swift with Kirin if the attack actually hits. So with Kirin Strike, if you wind up missing you still have your Swift to Recall (or whatever) with.

[RndmNumGen]

Arcane Pool has a duration of 1 minute, so it only costs 1 Swift action every 10 rounds.

Spell Recall I'll give you, this is the biggest competition, but I will point out that most of the Archetypes trade it away, so it might not be a problem.

Arcane Strike is good if you want/need the to-hit boost, otherwise Kirin Strike has better damage. Also, you have to commit to Arcane Strike before you attack, whereas you only spend the Swift with Kirin if the attack actually hits. So with Kirin Strike, if you wind up missing you still have your Swift to Recall (or whatever) with.

It's not just Arcane Pool in and of itself, but also a good 80% of the Magus Arcanas which use the arcane pool. Accurate Strike to resolve against Touch AC? Arcane Edge(used as an Immediate after hitting) to deal Bleed damage equal to your INT? Critical Strike to cast a free Touch spell after scoring a critical? You can't use any of these with Kirin Strike.

I'm not saying Kirin Style is bad, but I just don't think it synergizes well with the Magus. There are too many other cool things to do with your swift actions. Why not take something else such as say, Dragon Style/Dragon Ferocity for the ability to charge over difficult terrain and bonus unarmed damage? Or Crane Style/Crane Wing to give your Magus some much needed defensive ability?

[blackmage]

Thanks for all the ideas, I'll be taking them into consideration.

But, does anyone have an actual answer to my question about using Arcane Pool/Arcane Strike with Improved Unarmed Strike?

[Drelua]

But, does anyone have an actual answer to my question about using Arcane Pool/Arcane Strike with Improved Unarmed Strike?

Technically, I don't think it would work, since you usually aren't holding your fist, but it definitely would with a monk dip since the description of Unarmed Strike makes specific allowances for things like this. Regardless, I'd allow it, so ask your DM. If he doesn't, get brass knuckles or a cestus; I think they can both use unarmed damage (before Paizo's big F U to monks saying otherwise), but I'm not sure.

What you do with that is make it +1 and then add a bunch of generally useful abilities, prepare Greater Magic Weapon once or twice a day after you hit level 8, and use arcane pool for more situational enhancements like specific energy types for creatures that are vulnerable, like trolls and some dragons. This can easily get you a weapon with an effective enhancement bonus of +19 by level 20 (+5 from GMW overlapping the base of +10 for 14, +5 from arcane pool) and getting you far above what most characters of your level are expected to have.

[RndmNumGen]

Thanks for all the ideas, I'll be taking them into consideration.

But, does anyone have an actual answer to my question about using Arcane Pool/Arcane Strike with Improved Unarmed Strike?
Oh, sorry. I seem to have overlooked that. All I can say is ask your DM. While you can't use Magic Weapon on Unarmed Strikes, that is because Magic Weapon specifically targets only manufactured weapons, while Arcane Pool will affect all weapons, including natural weapons(which an unarmed strike falls under). There is that pesky 'Holding' line, but I suspect that the devs just never considered a magi that used natural weapons - but there is no reason that they should be excluded.

Check this thread (http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/paizoPublishing/pathfinder/pathfinderRPG/rules/archives/magusNaturalAttacks) out for more information.

[Crasical]

Aaaah, the mystic art of Fistomancy.

[Ravens_cry]

Aaaah, the mystic art of Fistomancy.
"Talk to the fist," indeed! :smallamused:

[MeeposFire]

"At 1st level, a magus learns to cast spells and wield his weapons at the same time. This functions much like two-weapon fighting, but the off-hand weapon is a spell that is being cast. To use this ability, the magus must have one hand free (even if the spell being cast does not have somatic components), while wielding a light or one-handed melee weapon in the other hand. As a full-round action, he can make all of his attacks with his melee weapon at a –2 penalty and can also cast any spell from the magus spell list with a casting time of 1 standard action (any attack roll made as part of this spell also takes this penalty)."

First I think most DMs would not interpret "wielding...in the other hand" to preclude unarmed strikes (you certainly wield it and "in hand" is the sort of discussion two opposing rules lawyers will salivate over to argue about). However if that is the case you have a very simple solution that requires no houserules.

This ability requires you to wield a weapon in one hand while leaving your other hand free. Even if you interpret this to mean that the one hand must be a held weapon you should notice that the ability does NOT require you to actually attack with that held weapon (though most would assume that you would). It says you make a full attack with your melee weapon but a fist is a melee weapon so that does not violate the rule. So yea just hold a dagger, or some other weapon, in one hand and leave one fist free. Then whenever you attack just use your fist (with gauntlets worn of course for some nice cheap enchantments) and just hold the dagger.

Either way you win.

[D-rave]

Unarmed strikes are light melee weapons not natural weapons

[ArqArturo]

Aaaah, the mystic art of Fistomancy.

Also known as the School of "ATATATATATATATATATATATAAAAA!!!11 (http://youtu.be/-kPII561-GY)"

[grarrrg]

Unarmed strikes are light melee weapons not natural weapons

While correct, this is still a GROSS instance of Threadcomancy.
TURN UNTHREAD!!


As for you...

Also known as the School of "ATATATATATATATATATATATAAAAA!!!11 (http://youtu.be/-kPII561-GY)"
I'm watching you ArqArturo...always watching (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RtWBlDC2-ss)...

[StreamOfTheSky]

You could make a Hexcrafter Magus and take Hex Strike (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/hex-strike-combat) feat to deliver hexes as a swift action after hitting with unarmed. Note that by strict (and moronic) RAW, you technically don't have the right class feature to qualify for the feat....they decided to call it Hex Magus instead of just Hex because that's paizo for you. They're identical in function and pretty much any DM outside of PF Society would likely be cool with it, but just thought you should be aware.

The other issue is...you have to take Hex Strike for each and every hex you want to use it with. So it's feat-heavy and impractical to use it with a bunch of them. I'd limit it to Slumber and then later on Ice Tomb and possibly Retribution when you get Major Hexes.

In any case, that'd at least give you a compelling reason to fight unarmed. You're still throwing away spellstrike's "use the weapon's critical range! go ahead, you know you want to!" for nothing (since unarmed is just 20/x2). Since you can unarmed strike with your hands full, I'd suggest doing a hybrid build that uses a sword and unarmed interchangeably. Perhaps unarmed to trigger hex strike, and any other attacks with the blade. You could also TWF, though you're already medium BAB and taking a -2 for spell combat often.

I don't think Kirin Strike is worth the pre-requisites, skill points (to ID), and constant consuming of swift actions. I do think if you insist on unarmed-only and no weapon, you might as well use your non-casting hand to hold a flag (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/flagbearer-local).