[3.5] Core-only suggested lvl. 6 Bard builds, PEACH

[The Troubadour]

So, here are some lvl. 6 Bard builds I've come up with for an upcoming core-only game - the only sourcebook allowed will be the Eberron campaign setting book. Since it's core-only, I'm really stumped as to how optimized they are, and I'd really appreciate any comment you guys might have! :-)


Build 1: Human Bard 6, Two-handed weapon style

Attributes: STR 14, DEX 10, CON 14, INT 12, WIS 10, CHA 13
Feats: 1st - Armor Proficiency (Medium), Martial Weapon Proficiency (Greatsword); 3rd - Song of the Heart; 6th - Power Attack
Skills: Bluff, Diplomacy, Gather Information, Knowledge (Local), Perform (Oratory), Perform (Percussion), Perform (Sing), Sense Motive, all maximized.
Spells Known: 0 - Dancing Lights, Detect Magic, Ghost Sound, Light, Lullaby, Summon Instrument; 1 - Cure Light Wounds, Expeditious Retreat, Feather Fall, Remove Fear; 2 - Cure Moderate Wounds, Delay Poison, Heroism


Build 2: Human Bard 6, Sword-and-shield/two-weapon fighting style

Attributes: STR 14, DEX 15, CON 12, INT 10, WIS 08, CHA 13
Feats: 1st - Improved Shield Bash, Two-Weapon Fighting; 3rd - Song of the Heart; 6th - ?
Skills: Bluff, Diplomacy, Gather Information, Knowledge (Local), Perform (Oratory), Perform (Sing), Sense Motive, all maximized.
Spells Known: 0 - Dancing Lights, Detect Magic, Ghost Sound, Light, Lullaby, Summon Instrument; 1 - Cure Light Wounds, Expeditious Retreat, Feather Fall, Remove Fear; 2 - Cure Moderate Wounds, Delay Poison, Heroism


Build 3: Human Bard 6, Thrown weapon style

Attributes: STR 14, DEX 14, CON 12, INT 10, WIS 10, CHA 13
Feats: 1st - Point-Blank Shot, Quick Draw; 3rd - Song of the Heart; 6th - Precise Shot
Skills: Bluff, Diplomacy, Gather Information, Knowledge (Local), Perform (Oratory), Perform (Sing), Sense Motive, all maximized.
Spells Known: 0 - Dancing Lights, Detect Magic, Ghost Sound, Light, Lullaby, Summon Instrument; 1 - Cure Light Wounds, Expeditious Retreat, Feather Fall, Remove Fear; 2 - Cure Moderate Wounds, Delay Poison, Heroism


Build 4: Human Bard 6, Archery style

Attributes: STR 14, DEX 14, CON 12, INT 10, WIS 10, CHA 13
Feats: 1st - Point-Blank Shot, Precise Shot; 3rd - Song of the Heart; 6th - Rapid Shot
Skills: Bluff, Diplomacy, Gather Information, Knowledge (Local), Perform (Oratory), Perform (Sing), Sense Motive, all maximized.
Spells Known: 0 - Dancing Lights, Detect Magic, Ghost Sound, Light, Lullaby, Summon Instrument; 1 - Cure Light Wounds, Expeditious Retreat, Feather Fall, Remove Fear; 2 - Cure Moderate Wounds, Delay Poison, Heroism

[gorfnab]

First off Bards suffer arcane spell failure in armor heavier than light, so build 1 will need to be reworked.

Second page 34 of the Eberron Campaign Setting book in the "Music of Creation" paragraph states that a Bard can swap a Bardic Music for one of several feat listed in the paragraph. I recommend you swap out Suggestion for the feat Song of the Heart. This will free up an extra feat.

[The Troubadour]

First off Bards suffer arcane spell failure in armor heavier than light, so build 1 will need to be reworked.

Oh, I know that, but I thought I'd use spells only when out of combat, at least until I could get a mithral breastplate.


Second page 34 of the Eberron Campaign Setting book in the "Music of Creation" paragraph states that a Bard can swap a Bardic Music for one of several feat listed in the paragraph. I recommend you swap out Suggestion for the feat Song of the Heart. This will free up an extra feat.

But Song of the Heart has Inspire Competence as a pre-requisite.

[gorfnab]

Oh, I know that, but I thought I'd use spells only when out of combat, at least until I could get a mithral breastplate.
A mithril breastplate is considered light armor anyways so you would still be wasting a feat. IF you want proficiency with greatsword and medium armor you might as well take a level of Fighter. It looks like you're going Human so you wouldn't have to worry about XP penalty for multiclassing.



But Song of the Heart has Inspire Competence as a pre-requisite.
Bards gain the Bardic Music Inspire Competence at 3rd level. The "Music of Creation" variant will allow you to swap out the Bardic Music Suggestion (normally gained at 6th level) for the feat Song of the Heart. It lets you swap a Music for a feat (from that list) on a one for one basis.

[The Troubadour]

A mithril breastplate is considered light armor anyways so you would still be wasting a feat.

Oh, right, I forgot about that!


The "Music of Creation" variant will allow you to swap out the Bardic Music Suggestion (normally gained at 6th level) for the feat Song of the Heart. It lets you swap a Music for a feat (from that list) on a one for one basis.

But then I'd have to wait until level 6, right? Nah, I'd rather spend the feat and get it earlier. Although, you raised a good point - perhaps it would be better to multiclass after level 3? Especially if I can convince the DM to let me use Inspirational Boost...

[Vladislav]

I want to criticize the spell selection.

Delay Poison? Just get some vials of antitoxin for 50 gp each.
Heroism? Isn't it just a bad copy of your Bardic music? And since it's a Morale bonus, it doesn't even stack.

Alter Self, Sound Burst, Hold Person, Suggestion* are all better.
For level 1, take Grease and/or Hideous Laughter.

* if you want to trade away the Suggestion bardic music feature

[The Troubadour]

Heroism? Isn't it just a bad copy of your Bardic music? And since it's a Morale bonus, it doesn't even stack.

It does apply to all saves, instead of only saves against fear and charms, though. But you're right, it really isn't that useful.


Alter Self, Sound Burst, Hold Person, Suggestion* are all better.
For level 1, take Grease and/or Hideous Laughter.

I wanted to stick to direct support spells for character fluff reasons, and I didn't want to use save-dependant spells either. Any other suggestions, with those guidelines in mind?

[Vladislav]

If your party has targets that would benefit from it, Invisibility. Otherwise, I'm drawing a blank, because this guideline

I wanted to stick to direct support spells for character fluff reasons, and I didn't want to use save-dependant spells either. Is just too self-restrictive.

[The Troubadour]

Ok, how about this, then:

Build 1: Human Bard 6, Two-handed weapon style

Starting Attributes: STR 14, DEX 14, CON 14, INT 10, WIS 08, CHA 13

Feats: 1st - Improved Initiative, Martial Weapon Proficiency (Greatsword); 3rd - Song of the Heart; 6th - Power Attack

Skills: Bluff, Diplomacy, Gather Information, Knowledge (Local), Perform (Oratory), Perform (Sing), Sense Motive, all maximized.

Spells Known:
0 - Dancing Lights, Detect Magic, Ghost Sound, Light, Prestidigitation, Read Magic
1 - Cure Light Wounds, Expeditious Retreat, Feather Fall, Remove Fear
2 - Cat's Grace, Cure Moderate Wounds, Eagle's Splendor



And I had an idea for another build:

Build 5: Human Bard 6, Buffer/summoner

Starting Attributes: STR 08, DEX 10, CON 12, INT 12, WIS 10, CHA 17

Feats: 1st - Spell Focus (Conjuration), Augment Summoning; 3rd - Song of the Heart; 6th - Leadership

Skills: Bluff, Concentration, Diplomacy, Gather Information, Knowledge (Local), Perform (Oratory), Perform (Sing), Sense Motive, all maximized.

Spells Known:
0 - Dancing Lights, Detect Magic, Ghost Sound, Light, Lullaby, Read Magic
1 - Cause Fear, Charm Person, Sleep, Summon Monster I
2 - Eagle's Splendor, Hypnotic Pattern, Summon Monster II

[nedz]

Why are you duplicating spells - Spells Known are a limiting resource for all Bard builds? I'm looking at CLW+CMW and Summon Monster I+II here.

Maybe you intend to swap them out later ?
But its a long wait for Bards to be able to do that.

[The Troubadour]

Maybe you intend to swap them out later ?

Indeed, I do! :-)

[nedz]

Indeed, I do! :-)

OK, but assuming you are going to do this all the way up: thats one spell known of your top two levels which will be overlaps for 2/3rds of the time, and one spell known of your top three levels for the rest of the time. And this stops you swapping anything else out.

If you overlap only on even or only on odd levels then you only have an overlap 1/3rd of the time, and that with a spell two levels below your highest.

[The Troubadour]

If you overlap only on even or only on odd levels then you only have an overlap 1/3rd of the time, and that with a spell two levels below your highest.

Hmmm... I'll have to think about it. So perhaps I could take Cure Light Wounds for 1st level, and then choose a different spell for 2nd level?

[Gwendol]

I don't quite get why you can't get a wand of CLW and use those precious spell slots for something else?
In any case do consider getting glitterdust at level 2.

[The Troubadour]

Hmm... But is it worthwhile to learn and cast spells with save DCs when my Charisma at level 20 will be only 18?

And leaving spells aside for a moment, have I made good choices with the attributes, feats and weapons? Here they are again, revised a bit:


Build 1: Human Bard 6, Two-handed weapon style

Attributes: STR 14, DEX 14, CON 14, INT 10, WIS 08, CHA 13
Feats: 1st - Improved Initiative, Martial Weapon Proficiency (Greatsword); 3rd - Song of the Heart; 6th - Power Attack


Build 2: Human Bard 6, Sword-and-shield/two-weapon fighting style

Attributes: STR 14, DEX 15, CON 12, INT 10, WIS 08, CHA 13
Feats: 1st - Improved Shield Bash, Two-Weapon Fighting; 3rd - Song of the Heart; 6th - ?


Build 4: Human Bard 6, Archery style

Attributes: STR 12, DEX 16, CON 12, INT 10, WIS 08, CHA 13
Feats: 1st - Point-Blank Shot, Precise Shot; 3rd - Song of the Heart; 6th - Rapid Shot

[gorfnab]

Hmm... But is it worthwhile to learn and cast spells with save DCs when my Charisma at level 20 will be only 18?

Glitterdust is Save vs Blinded which is nice. However the great part is that it basically cancels out invisibility.