View Full Version : Super Magic!

2012-05-12, 09:21 PM
So, I've recently started a High Magic game, like VERY high magic. In this game most of the challenges the players face will be magic in nature, or at least have some kind of Spell Resistance. I found the Spell caster classes as written to be fairly lacking of my game, so i came up with a few homebrew rules for them.

First off, Level no longer determines the level of spell one can cast. Instead all level spells are available from any level. This is balanced out by a Built in Spell Failure. This spell failure was equal to (10 x Spell Level) - (Caster Level + Spell Caster Ability Mod). So a level 3 Wizard with Int 18 could cast a level 1 spell with a Spell Failure of (10 x 3) - (3 + 4) = 30 - 7 = 23%. To farther augment the Spell Failure, Three Feats(technically 6) have been Created.

Arcane Practice: Reduce the Spell Failure percent by 5
Improved Arcane Practice: Reduce Spell Failure percent by 10
Advanced Arcane Practice: Reduce Spell Failure percent by 15

There is of course a Divine Variant to these feats. Improved, and Advanced Arcane Practice have a Prerequisite of needing to be level 5, and level 10 respectively to take, as well as requiring the feat before it to be taken, and each feat stacks with the other.

Next a Custom Variant of the Unearthed Arcane Spell Point Rules. The number of Spell Points a Character gets equal to 3 + Class(on the Spell Point Chart) + Caster Ability Mod + Bonus Spell Points(Using the Bonus Spell Point Chart). At first level. So a 1st level wizard with Int 18, would gain 3 + 2(Wizard Starting Points) + 4(Int Mod) + 1(Bonus spell Points due to Int 18), each level, using the Highest Castable Spell the caster would normally be able to cast under the Normal Spell Progression. Every level after first, the caster gains 3+Caster Level+Caster Ability Mod+Bonus Spell Points, so the same wizard would gain 3+2+4+1 Spell Points at second level. Wizards still gain only 2 "Free" Spells per level for their spell books, but start playing knowing 3+Int at first level, as well a 1 spell for level 2 spells and higher. Sorcerers start play knowing 6 first level spells, and any increase in Zero Level Spells Known, added to first level(because they are one and the same now), and 1 Spell of level 2 or higher. After learning a 2nd or higher level spell due to the Spells Known Chart, then Zero Level Learnt spells goes to the highest Castable Spell instead.

I have not developed any thoughts on Rangers, Paladins, Clerics, or the like, due to the fact no one in my group actually selected them. But at a quick glance the rules for them shouldn't be much different then Sorcerer or Wizard.

But the loss of a Zero level spells isn't with out it's reward, Casters may select a number of spells equal to their Zero Level spells per day, to be cast as though 1 level lower then it is, in relation to Spell Point Cost. These Selected spells must be selected when gaining a new level in which Zero Level spells per day is increased, and can not be changed later, except through the use of the Wish Spell.

I know it's fairly "complex" at least when explained with out one on one dialog, and seems possibly unbalancing. But when one considers the setting this was designed for, Most Challenges having the same Magic access, Spell Resistance, or Both, it is actually pretty balanced, at least in my experience with my players. Then again I have mature players who don't Min/Max or try to abuse loopholes, obvious or other wise, without DM consent.

Anyway, that's my house rules, for Uber Magic!!!! LET THE CRITICISM COMMENCE! :smalltongue:

2012-05-12, 10:05 PM
Math as you presented it in the second paragraph is off. The way you explained in text would be (10x1)-(3+4)=3% spell failure chance.

Feats, because they stack, are insanely powerful. Getting all three of these would be the equivilant of raising your spellcaster level/casting ability mod by 30. If they don't stack, it would only amount to 15 for all 3, which still seems big, but a bit more reasonable. And all of that is assuming nothing happens for a negative spell failure chance.

Rangers, Pallys, Bards, and any other of those poor souls without full casting will need to be bumped significantly to keep up. And I take it your just leaving everything else behind. A fighter will die in the first few seconds.

It's not all that complicated, especially if you have all the numbers prepared beforehand. Also, I give you my sympathies, (assuming you're DMing) as you don't need to try to abuse 9th level spells, especially at 1st level. It just comes naturally. The fail chance buffer helps, but if the feats are stated correctly, it won't matter.

2012-05-12, 10:10 PM
I grab Wish as a "0th" level spell, so that it cost only 15 points to cast.

My first level feat is Arcane Practice. That means that my spell failure is 80%.

So? I won't even be able to cast it, right? By 3rd level, I'll be able to cast it 1/day.

Still not too bad, right? By 6th level, if I'm playing a Grey Elf Wizard with Int 21, I have 3+(24)+(5)+(10) points, for 42 points in all; I take Improved Arcane Practice as my level 5 bonus feat, and Arcane Thesis (Wish) as my 6th level feat. I could take anything as my 3rd level feat.

My Spell Failure for Wish is now (10*9)-(8+5)-15=62%.

That's a single casting; I can cast it twice per day, which if I do so...

The % chance of me not successfully casting at least one Wish in a day is 38.44%.

Do you like to duplicate any other spell of your choice, pretty much? Yeah... It gets even worse when you consider that they will probably have a +2 or higher bonus Item for their Intelligence, for a 61% fail chance.

By 10th level, your failure chance for Wish (Assuming Advanced Arcane Preparation and a +4 Intelligence item) is 90-(12+8)-30, for a 40% chance of failure. With your 134 spell points, you get to cast it 8 times a day; it is probable enough that you can get at least two Wishes off fast enough to give yourself a +2 to your Intelligence, for even less of a fail chance.

That's if I go on as a Straight Wizard... If I go Wizard 5/Red Wizard of Thay 7, and I use Circle Magic on Wish... How do you like a 90-(42+8)-30=10% failure chance?

You are essentially handing nukes to everyone, as you can see in my above (outrageous) example.

2012-05-12, 10:33 PM
Xechon, your right about my math, thanks for the correction, and i belive your right about the Arcane Practice feats lowering the spell failure to much, so sense no one took them yet, i can easly change it so that they don't stack. As for the Non-Spell Casting classes, I'm thinking of make some level of Spell Resistance a Class Feature which scales up, so that they at least stand a chance, and they still have a place in Multiclassing. I have one player who's an Artificer/Rogue(who uses poisons, go figure), and so far they've held their own in combat, while also saving the groups collective asses from various traps(I'm a Devilish DM when it comes to traps).

and as for YOU, Amechra, I wouldn't even imagine using these house rules if you were in the group. :smalltongue: After all my players aren't out to "Beat Me" nor am I out to "Beat Them", we play for the story it builds, so none of us actually try to "optimize" like that. You example is very valid for MOST groups given this amount of Power at an early level. I feel i can trust my group pretty strongly considering they haven't even tried to cast anything higher then a level 2 spell(they are all level 3), and that's even with me throwing 10 Orcs at them all at once.

EDIT: Also keep the criticism coming, I heavily enjoy seeing other's views. But please no more ways on how it can be abused, we've already established that my group isn't your typicality "I WILL BEAT THE DM!!" troupe I have seen on many many different forums.

2012-05-12, 11:33 PM
I was really just trying to give a ridiculous example; the thing is, a player might select a really strong high level spell simply because that's what they think their character would've learned. And even if they aren't trying to "beat" you, certain classes and feats they pick, even purely because of fluff, might end up giving uber things. Besides, I know there is always at least one guy who will try to pull something like the above, because Wish is cool.

And we really need to know how you structure your encounters and such; do you have a ton of enemy spellcasters, how intelligently do you play your monsters, and so on and so forth.

Because the thing about that 10 Orc fight... if it was against a bunch of melee fighters, it's a LOT different then having say 5 melee fighters, 4 bowmen, and an Orc Witch Doctor as a commander.

And just a quick statement about your request that we don't talk about abuses... we have to, because unless your players are really skilled and want to stay at a certain power level, they can accidentally stumble into certain abuses.

And seriously? If I was in your group, I'd be the bard in the background, playing my Inspire Courage and pitching in some good old skill checks as party face. Because that is how I roll.

2012-05-14, 04:27 PM
heehee http://www.nuklearpower.com/2001/03/23/episode-008-adventurers-1-giant-0/