Help optimizing a monk (lvl 12)

[PowerGamer]

Hello there, I have most of the character in my head but still need a few more things. The character was originaly based of of Alphones Elric so just listen to some things first.

-I am a living suit of armor (magic did that).
-The armor is Blueshine mithril spiked fullplate (Which I don't pay for)(If i want to add more to the armor I must pay for it)
-I'm a monk of undecided lvl and prestige tattooeed monk of undecided lvl (12th level campaign)
-It's a vampire hunting party
-No vow of poverty
-88,000 gp
-House rolls give me 6 feats. 2 will be least dragon mark of making, and silver tracery (warforged feat dm gave to me)
-Items: monk's belt and vampire hunting kit

Other than that... I have no idea what to do. I need help choosing tattoos and feats and magic items. Also taking suggestions for classes but it will start with monk.

[Kaeso]

Take unarmed swordsage :smallwink:

But on a more serious note, you want to model it after Alphonse Elric, right? I haven't watched FMA for a while (nor beyond episode 30, which I should really do once) but can't Alphonse do some alchemy as well? If I were you, I'd start out with one (or two, based on your preference) levels of monk, add in some wizard/sorcerer or cleric levels and then go either Enlightened Fist or Sacred Fist. I'd recommend going sorcerer and sacred fist, because it allows you to take the feat ascetic mage that allows you to use your cha modifier instead of your wis modifier for your AC bonus.

Anyway, this means you're still a monk, but the sorcerer can choose and pick spells that allow you to be better at melee *greater magic whallop, anyone?*. Also, enlightened fist advances both your melee skills and your magical skills, which makes you both a mage/alchemist and a melee fighter.

[PowerGamer]

Yes Al has some alchemy abilities (not as good as Ed's of course) I took the least mark of dragon making and will probably use another feat to upgrade it and then at a higher level upgrade it again. I guess I can take a few levels of a caster, I just wanted him to be a melee build. As for the swordsage... I have never read it :P I guess it's time that I should. Also what books are the Enlightened/Sacred Fist in?

--EDIT--
Just read up on dragon marks.... forget those... um as for creation I could go psion shaper?

[Kaeso]

Yes Al has some alchemy abilities (not as good as Ed's of course) I took the least mark of dragon making and will probably use another feat to upgrade it and then at a higher level upgrade it again. I guess I can take a few levels of a caster, I just wanted him to be a melee build. As for the swordsage... I have never read it :P I guess it's time that I should. Also what books are the Enlightened/Sacred Fist in?

Here's a useful link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_prestige_classes)

Enlightened fist is in Complete Arcane and Sacred Fist in Complete Divine.

[Urpriest]

Greater Mighty Wallop (the spell that should make you drool about being a caster "Monk") is from Races of the Dragon.

[PowerGamer]

Greater Mighty Wallop (the spell that should make you drool about being a caster "Monk") is from Races of the Dragon.

Just read that spell. HOLY MOTHER OF COWS!! That's soooo broken. Ok so build wise. Monk (few levels more than wiz sorc)/wiz or sorc (few levels)/and then need to choose between the options presented to me Enlighted Fist means I wont need to take as many caster levels because it give me 8 levels and it also stacks with monk (awesome). still reading up on the other class opions though. Thank you all for the help so far.

[Lord_Gareth]

Just read that spell. HOLY MOTHER OF COWS!! That's soooo broken. Ok so build wise. Monk (few levels more than wiz sorc)/wiz or sorc (few levels)/and then need to choose between the options presented to me Enlighted Fist means I wont need to take as many caster levels because it give me 8 levels and it also stacks with monk (awesome). still reading up on the other class opions though. Thank you all for the help so far.

Fun? Yes. Broken? Far from.

[PowerGamer]

Shoot... I'm trying to remeber if tome of battle is banned by house rules or not... I'll ask my DM and find out later. But wow Swordsage is good. If he does let me use it which disicpline(s) should I work off of? If he doesn't let me i think I'll do enlightened fist. Also, not having a copy of complete divine? is elightened or sacred fist better? Remeber this is is a vampire hunting group

[Lord_Gareth]

Shoot... I'm trying to remeber if tome of battle is banned by house rules or not... I'll ask my DM and find out later. But wow Swordsage is good. If he does let me use it which disicpline(s) should I work off of? If he doesn't let me i think I'll do enlightened fist. Also, not having a copy of complete divine? is elightened or sacred fist better? Remeber this is is a vampire hunting group

Diamond Mind is always solid. Setting Sun's got some nice material for unarmed swordsages, and I'm personally a big fan of Shadow Hand.

[PowerGamer]

should I scrap monk and just take swordsage if my dm lets me? or should I keep some levels of monk? does someone wantto suggest how I should take classes and of what levels?

[Lord_Gareth]

should I scrap monk and just take swordsage if my dm lets me? or should I keep some levels of monk? does someone wantto suggest how I should take classes and of what levels?

The Unarmed Swordsage variant literally makes monk obsolete. There's no need to take Monk levels at that point.

[Urpriest]

should I scrap monk and just take swordsage if my dm lets me? or should I keep some levels of monk? does someone wantto suggest how I should take classes and of what levels?

Swordsage has a suggested adaptation at the end of its entry that trades its armor proficiency for the monk's unarmed strike. If your DM is cool with that adaptation then I'd just take Swordsage levels and forget about Monk. Otherwise take one or two levels of Monk, then stick with Swordsage.

[PowerGamer]

The Unarmed Swordsage variant literally makes monk obsolete. There's no need to take Monk levels at that point.

it really does but if I do swordsage x/ wiz or sorc x/ enlightened fist x I should be fine right?

[PowerGamer]

Swordsage has a suggested adaptation at the end of its entry that trades its armor proficiency for the monk's unarmed strike. If your DM is cool with that adaptation then I'd just take Swordsage levels and forget about Monk. Otherwise take one or two levels of Monk, then stick with Swordsage.

I just noticed that. Thank you. I sure hope he lets me use Tob. I don't think he'll let me do it because my character is a suit of armor so trading armor proficiency for monk damage... It's a one-sided trade.

--EDIT--

He just approved ToB and the monk damage varient!! this is going to be fun. and should i do the trade of manuvers for spells of equall level or keep manuvers and take the levels of wiz/sorc too?

[Urpriest]

it really does but if I do swordsage x/ wiz or sorc x/ enlightened fist x I should be fine right?

Actually, if you want to go Enlightened Fist you probably shouldn't use Swordsage. Monk gets Stunning Fist as a bonus feat, Swordsage doesn't, and it's got pretty strict prerequisites.

For an Enlightened Fist, go something like Monk 1/Wizard or Sorc 4/Enlightened Fist 10, finishing off the rest with Abjurant Champion if you get that far.

Unarmed Swordsage is better used on its own. It's got enough "magical" abilities that you can still feel like an alchemist without caster levels if you so choose.

[PowerGamer]

if i take straight swordsage though, how would I be able to use the greater mighty wallop?

[Urpriest]

if i take straight swordsage though, how would I be able to use the greater mighty wallop?

Convince a caster/"alchemist" friend to cast it on you, probably. But yeah, that's basically the tradeoff.

[PowerGamer]

ok so since i can't normalyl depend on my party for that looking into the cost of an item (gloves probably) 2/day use and min caster level 5 so it lasts for 5 hrs and use it twice so 10. Scratch that... i'm kind of confused on the swordsage so maybe i'll use it another time. Decided wizard becuase Al still needs to draw out transmutation circles at the start so now he's got his book, plus I can learn more spells later on... I'll see how this goes


PROGRESS SO FAR
-Monk 1/Wiz 4/Enlightened Fist 7
-Items:monks belt, vamp hunting kit
-Feats: Silver Tracery (need 5 more[house rules])
-88,000 gp...(possible more bonuses to my armor and then magic stuffs)


Sorry for the whole drawn out conversation about swordsage but i just don't understand it enough at this time to use it when we meet in 2 weeks (i have finals between now and then so i don't have that much time to learn new stuff this time)

[Hiro Protagonest]

But wow Swordsage is good.
...Yeah. Because monks suck. Seriously, one of the "Fist" PrCs is the only way to get it good, and it naturally has some more magical ability than the fighter so fluff can stay the same if you use only buffs and perhaps some others.

I just noticed that. Thank you. I sure hope he lets me use Tob. I don't think he'll let me do it because my character is a suit of armor so trading armor proficiency for monk damage... It's a one-sided trade.
Trading monk for swordsage is a one-sided trade.

--EDIT--

and should i do the trade of manuvers for spells of equall level or keep manuvers and take the levels of wiz/sorc too?

NO. I don't care if you're not playing a swordsage anymore, I have to say this. NEVER TAKE THE HALF-FILLED CUP OF IDEAS THAT IS ARCANE SWORDSAGE.

[Callyn]

Kung Fu Genius is a feat from Dragon 319/Dragon Compendium that lets you use Int for monk abilities including the AC Bonus.

[Urpriest]

Kung Fu Genius is a feat from Dragon 319/Dragon Compendium that lets you use Int for monk abilities including the AC Bonus.

If you can't use Dragon, there's another feat (Carmendine Monk, from Champions of Valor) that also does this.

[Greyfeld85]

Course, there's always the Kalashtar monk as well.

[PowerGamer]

Course, there's always the Kalashtar monk as well.

I'm not a kalashtar. And yes dragon comp is not allowed

--EDIT--

Reading through things (and being very indecisiv)... I am better off being a Swordsgae because Enlightened Fist doesn't give me some of the monk abilities I want. So change of heart. either straight monk with a monk variant (undecided) or staight swordsage with monk damage. Reason I wanted monk is flurry of blows,slow fall, AC bonuses, and speed boosts.

As for greater might wallop, I'm gonna try to convinve a praty member to take it or I can just buy an item that can use it 1 or 2 times a day

[Keld Denar]

...Yeah. Because monks suck. Seriously, one of the "Fist" PrCs is the only way to get it good, and it naturally has some more magical ability than the fighter so fluff can stay the same if you use only buffs and perhaps some others.

The Tashalatora feat says hi.

If you don't want magic, there is always the psionic route. Monk2/PsyWar10 is a pretty straightforward build. Gets you 1 4th level power (either Greater Concealing Amorphia or Psionic Dim Door), 3 3rd levels, 3 2nd levels, and 3 1st levels (Expansion!!!). Simply trade out either your 1st or 2nd level monk bonus feat (depending on which you don't want) for Monastic Training (Eberron Campaign Setting book) and then your 3rd level feat will be Tashalatora (Secrets of Sarlona). All the good things about monks (Flurry, scaling UAS damage) on a chassis laden with awesome psionic powers and tons of bonus feats.

[Averis Vol]

if your actually thinking of taking levels in monk, go with the invisible fist ACF from EoE, it gives you invisibility for one round every 3 rounds and at 9th level (doesn't say 9th level monk so you might be able to pull one over on your dm) you get blink for your wis modifier rounds every three rounds also. also i'm going to suggest sacred fist over enlightened merely because a clerics spells are better then a sorc's for fighting vampires (invisible full PA+righteous might+divine power hit along with a channeled heal? say bye bye to the vampire lord) and they have a better hit die, BaB, and saves then a sorc. plus you wouldn't need to take ascetic mage. so your spell DC's and ac would be high, plus the number of rounds you could stay blinking from invisible fist would raise. hope something in there helps.

EDIT: a build could look something like Dwarf monk (overwhelming assault) 2/cleric 4/ sacred fist 6

stats 32 PB:
str 16
dex 14
con 16
int 8
wis 16
cha 6

feats:
1: combat casting
monk 1: power attack
monk 2: improved bullrush
3: combat reflexes
6: hammer fists
9: open
12: open

so you can swing 1-1/2 your str mod per attack and get a 2:1 return for PA + with your high wisdom you'll also have plenty of spells to throw around and a decent AC. or you could throw away three more feats to get into shiba protector and get wis to damage too.

[PowerGamer]

if your actually thinking of taking levels in monk, go with the invisible fist ACF from EoE, it gives you invisibility for one round every 3 rounds and at 9th level (doesn't say 9th level monk so you might be able to pull one over on your dm) you get blink for your wis modifier rounds every three rounds also. also i'm going to suggest sacred fist over enlightened merely because a clerics spells are better then a sorc's for fighting vampires (invisible full PA+righteous might+divine power hit along with a channeled heal? say bye bye to the vampire lord) and they have a better hit die, BaB, and saves then a sorc. plus you wouldn't need to take ascetic mage. so your spell DC's and ac would be high, plus the number of rounds you could stay blinking from invisible fist would raise. hope something in there helps.

EDIT: a build could look something like Dwarf monk (overwhelming assault) 2/cleric 4/ sacred fist 6

stats 32 PB:
str 16
dex 14
con 16
int 8
wis 16
cha 6

feats:
1: combat casting
monk 1: power attack
monk 2: improved bullrush
3: combat reflexes
6: hammer fists
9: open
12: open
so you can swing 1-1/2 your str mod per attack and get a 2:1 return for PA + with your high wisdom you'll also have plenty of spells to throw around and a decent AC. or you could throw away three more feats to get into shiba protector and get wis to damage too.

Thank you for the help I'm just goign to address this in a list
1)Please notice and take heade. I'm not changing my race. I am an animated, awakened suite of fullplate* (thus i have construct traits and hit dice)
2)I have ability scores from dice rolls (STR 16 DEX 18 INT 15 WIS 18 CHA 14)
3)Per house rules I stated I get 6 feats (odd levels) and the first will be Silver Tracery
4)Already have a party cleric but I'm considering this
5)what book is EoE?

[Averis Vol]

1) right, i totally forgot about the whole animated armor thing, sorry my bad.
2) those stats are better, so perfect
3) my feats are less then 6 in choice and none are really level dependant.
4) clerics have enough wiggle room to have 2 clerics that do totally different things
5) EoE is exemplars of Evil

so me totally forgetting about #1 is only slightly a hinderance, drop hammer fists, since its dwarf only (and your not allowed dragon mags so the raceless version of hammer fists is out) and maybe pick up something liek practiced spell caster to make up CL. if i'm missing anything sorry, ill try to find a solution for it.

[Greyfeld85]

The Tashalatora feat says hi.

Yeah, that's the word I meant earlier, not Kalashtar. I had a total brain fart lol.

[PowerGamer]

1) right, i totally forgot about the whole animated armor thing, sorry my bad.
2) those stats are better, so perfect
3) my feats are less then 6 in choice and none are really level dependant.
4) clerics have enough wiggle room to have 2 clerics that do totally different things
5) EoE is exemplars of Evil

so me totally forgetting about #1 is only slightly a hinderance, drop hammer fists, since its dwarf only (and your not allowed dragon mags so the raceless version of hammer fists is out) and maybe pick up something liek practiced spell caster to make up CL. if i'm missing anything sorry, ill try to find a solution for it.

Hey not prob, I wasn't trying to sound rude I was kinda in a rush this morning so this was the fastest way to handle it :P


The Tashalatora feat says hi.

just about to look this up

--EDIT--

Gosh darn it i hate options, I like the Monk2/PsyWar 10 build too!! And it helps that I'm fluent in PsyWar for the most part.
Comes down to two builds:

--Monk 2/Cleric 4/Sacred fist 6
--Monk 2/PsyWar 10 (with tashalator feat)

help me o.0 vampire wise the cleric story fits better (still havent read up on sacred fist yet...) familiarity wise I know monks and psionics.. what to dooo

[Keld Denar]

I'd go the Tash route if I were you. I like psionics and think psionics do a better job with ki than anything else. You don't need Inertial Armor since you ARE armor. That leaves you an extra 1st level power free compared to typical Tash builds.

If you want to be kinda silly, you can take the Mantled Warrior ACF from the online Mind's Eye article for the Natural World mantle. That lets you start with Metamorphosis as your 4th level power if you want. Then you can be a suit of armor that turns into a table or semi truck or building...

Transform and roll out!

[PowerGamer]

i'm leaning toward psi route too... I just like them too much (it helps that it's the only real book that I own :P )

[Averis Vol]

yea toshalatora is intense, and if you know it better power to ya. on a relevant note isn't the king of smack a tosh monk?

and i understand you weren't trying to be rude :smallsmile:

[LansXero]

And you can work the fluff into the vampire hunter bit: You come from a monastery that was wiped out when a Vampire came in a dominated everyone into letting themselves be eaten. Except you, because the attempted domination flared the dormant psionic abilities inside you and you fled, training hard as hell since then to kill the bloodsuckers dead.

Or something like that :P

[Keld Denar]

The origional King of Smack is pure PsyWar, but there are variant KoS builds that make use of Tashalatora in conjunction with Expansion, Metamorphosis, and other size/shape altering powers.

[Rubik]

I'm rather surprised you're not playing a warforged, really, especially since I believe you mentioned you had to deal with racial HD and some LA.

Also, look into battlefist warforged components. They're in one of the Eberron books. Pretty sure it was the original Eberron Campaign Setting book.

[PowerGamer]

I'm rather surprised you're not playing a warforged, really, especially since I believe you mentioned you had to deal with racial HD and some LA.

... I never mentioned racial HD or LA... And I didn't want to do warforged because it wanted to make a character like Alphones Elric from Fullmetal Alchemist (if u don't know he's a soul bound to a suit of armor) so I asked my DM, he said i was a human who died someway and someone payed a wiz to bring me back... The wiz kind of failed and this is how I turned out to be...

Anywho, Psywar alone is a fun class but in keeping true to Al i was going monk with some magic but I really like this Monk 2/ PsyWar 10 idea. I think I'm going to go with that

[Rubik]

... I never mentioned racial HD or LA... And I didn't want to do warforged because it wanted to make a character like Alphones Elric from Fullmetal Alchemist (if u don't know he's a soul bound to a suit of armor) so I asked my DM, he said i was a human who died someway and someone payed a wiz to bring me back... The wiz kind of failed and this is how I turned out to be...Ah. Well, I suppose going full construct is better than going living construct. I was just concerned that you were having to eat up a lot of RHD and LA for something that a refluffed warforged could do for you fairly easily.

[Rubik]

Also, if you're going monk make sure to grab some of the weapon crystals from the MIC and add them together in a single item (as per the MIC rules). Note that your unarmed strikes count as manufactured weapons, so adding all the +1d6 energy properties to your own body is perfectly legal. And since your body is ALSO armor...

Yay armor crystal of adamant armor!

[PowerGamer]

asked DM about weaon crystals got an ok, finally have time to start putting this character together. I'm going to run the Monk 2/PsyWar 10 route just because it's easier on my to not have to learn any new mechanics

i get 6 feats (the odd levels because of house rules)
first 3 inorder for this to work are
1) monistic training(psywar)
2) tashalatora
3) silver tracery
-------- then I'm thinking
4) psionic meditation
5) ?
6) ?

---EDIT---

answering the statement below up here- imp nat attack doesn't work on unarmed attacks :/ just asked my DM.
-I forgot to mention i get 4 bonus feats from the psychic warrior

[D@rK-SePHiRoTH-]

asked DM about weaon crystals got an ok, finally have time to start putting this character together. I'm going to run the Monk 2/PsyWar 10 route just because it's easier on my to not have to learn any new mechanics

i get 6 feats (the odd levels because of house rules)
first 3 inorder for this to work are
1) monistic training(psywar)
2) tashalatora
3) silver tracery
-------- then I'm thinking
4) psionic meditation
5) ?
6) ?
You may want Improved Natural Attack (MM) so that you can go beyond colossal size damage when under the effect of an Expansion power.

If you want to charge making use of psionic lion's charge, take Battle Jump from unapproachable east

If you instead favor the tactical style, combat reflexes + Aoo forcers (robilar's gambit, karmic strike, defensive throw, riposte, etc) is the way to go

[Rubik]

The Linked Power feat (from CPsi) is seriously uber on a self-buffing build. It allows you to use your swift actions to buff (add a power with a longer manifestation time as the second power), while running around killing stuff.

Psicrystals make excellent multipurpose tools, and they're harder to kill than familiars (and actually gain HD, unlike familiars, which means feats), and adding in the Psicrystal Containment feat means you can put up four buffs each fight without having to recharge. The Psionic Meditation feat means you can recharge during an encounter, though if you need more than four buffs at a time you're probably not doing it right.

Also, you might also consider the Shape Soulmeld feat. It grants you an always-on buff, and with the powers and other feats listed in Magic of Incarnum you can also have a bind or two going, as well. Could save on a lot of power points, depending on which soulmeld(s) you choose.

And don't choose any direct-damage powers (except for Dissolving Weapon -- use it on arrows on off-days for a boost to ranged damage on your adventuring days). Go for cheap buffs and long-lasting buffs instead. Expansion is a definite. And Psionic Lion's Charge (or Hustle) is nice for action economy, too.

[PowerGamer]

Thanks for the feat help. I'll finish those later. Right now I'm looking at magic properties. For armor crystals i'm lookin at adamant(greater), arrow deflection(greater) and iron ward diamond(greater). for weapon crystals, I only liked truedeath(least). Opinions? And then suggestions for armor and weapon enchantments (holy for sure)

--EDIT!!---

I think i did all of my damage correctly---------

Unarmed attack:Attack roll:
Normal: +12/+7 (with speed [12/12/7] with snap kick [10/10/10/5])
Flurry of blows: 12/12/12/7 (with speed [12/12/12/12/7] and snap kick [10/10/10/10/10/5])

Normal Sized Damage: 2d8(base) +1d6(spiked) +1d6(truedeath crystal, greater) +2d6(holy) +1d6(Flaming Burst) +5(collision) +3(STR)

Disruption: (undead make will save DC 14 or die)
------------------------------------------------------

Did I do this correctly? (after this also add on expansion and greater mighty wallop :P )