Badass Wizardry

[chomskola]

Wizards seem pretty vulnerable at 1st level, when do they start to be badass, and what are the levels of badassery and what, if anything, in particular makes them badass?:smallcool:

[Righteous Doggy]

Vulnerable? Take a look at colorspray. Cone of Rainbow colored doom! DC 15ish will save right in the phb, and mage armor is a +4 ac without penalty. 16 con and you have 7ish health at first, but you'll grow.

Lots of things magic a wizard awesome. Save or dies, polymorph/shapechange into something deadly(or use it on a teammate) skillmonkey familiars, a spell can solve almost any problem, fly all day, immune to criticals... What can't you do as a wizard!? As for when, varies heavily with the spell... but you can always find something between a few books to use.

[Ryulin18]

I'd say about 14th to 20th level is where most builds become OP. But some builds can mature and doom the universe at about 4-8.

[Big Fau]

It depends heavily on how much effort you put into your spells/day. A 1st level Wizard can end entire encounters (Charm Person, Color Spray, Sleep) while being effectively untouchable (Abrupt Jaunt ACF), a 3rd level Wizard can survive the Tarrasque, a 7th level one is capable of fighting an army with one spell, and it just gets worse as you get higher up.

[TuggyNE]

There was a thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=229753) a while back comparing the arena performance of a wizard and a barbarian, both optimized at level 1, vs. semi-optimized wizard/cleric/fighter/rogue team at level 3.

As I recall, the wizard won all three of his encounters; the barbarian lost two because of an unfortunate build choice. (Theoretically could have won all three as well.)

Mind you, this is APL 0.3 vs. EL 7 -- officially an "unwinnable" encounter.

[Chronos]

A first-level wizard's primary defense, at level 1, is to make sure that the enemies never get a chance to try to hurt him.

Now, this can sometimes fail, in which case, it sucks to be you. But that's a feature, not a bug: All classes are supposed to suck at level 1, and the handful that don't, it's a problem. Especially problematic is the druid, who doesn't suck at level 1, and continues to be overpowered for the entire game.

[Marlowe]

Back when 3.0 first came out the little group I was involved in got carried away with all the things a 1st level wizard could suddenly do compared with AD&D. Suddenly we had twice as many hit points on average and could cast more than one spell a day (it may have been the case in AD&D if played properly, but if so, nobody in my area knew how to play properly. I didn't know much about the game back then.).

We went a little nuts with creeping around with Mage Armour and light crossbows, taking every encounter like an amateur sniper team, and helping the token fighter by flanking with our finessed scimitars (I think that was legal back then, or we might have missed something). In retrospect, this was a silly way to play wizards (well, it was rather silly at the time) but it was certainly fun and we never felt we were underpowered compared to most other classes. Hell, we cleaned out multiple ghoul-infested areas at level one.

My past silliness aside, a level one wizard is a very fun and flexible character, and having only three stats you need to care about helps a lot if you're using a point-buy.

[Ernir]

The Wizard becomes a badass the first time a spell turns a battle from "oh god, we're all going to die!" to "huh, these guys aren't so tough after all".

Usually happens sometime between Glitterdust (level 3) and Black Tentacles (level 7), in my experience.

[Rallicus]

I literally ending a campaign with 1 color spray as a level 1 wizard. I didn't try to MIN/MAX, I had no particular build in mind, I just cast color spray at the first encounter and knocked out every enemy.

The DM was so pissed that he quit, and I never heard from any of them again.

So yes... wizards are pretty insanely badass, even at level 1.

[Righteous Doggy]

I literally ending a campaign with 1 color spray as a level 1 wizard. I didn't try to MIN/MAX, I had no particular build in mind, I just cast color spray at the first encounter and knocked out every enemy.

Were the enemies lined up like bolwing pins? Thats kind of ridiculous.

[Rallicus]

Were the enemies lined up like bolwing pins? Thats kind of ridiculous.

Pretty much. If I remember correctly, they were situated around a table or something. The room was also very small.

Provided I didn't win initiative they probably would have lasted a bit longer and spread out, but nope.

[Eonir]

Were the enemies lined up like bolwing pins? Thats kind of ridiculous.

If the DM rage quit because of Color Spray, I wouldn't be surprised.

[Endarire]

Level 7 (level 4 spells, more specifically) is the traditional breakpoint. Before then, Wizards range from "situationally good" to "really good."

Level 4 spells have, most notably, solid fog and Evard's black tentacles. The tentacles alone can destroy tightly-packed teams, because who bothers boosting their grapple check unless they're specced for grappling? For example, a Conjurer7 can have 3 level 4 spells, each of Evard's black tentacles. Each will end or severely hamper a fight, even without a helper spell like stinking cloud.

Level 4 spells also include polymorph. It probably isn't outright broken, but it's extremely versatile and potent. It's probably the best L4 utility or buff spell for Wizards.

Animate dead is also L4 for Wizards. Clerics get it at L3 and get desecrate, but it's an option.

Scrying is a L4 spell, but doesn't help much until you can teleport or plane shift to your target.

If your GM lets you use it, greater mirror image (Player's Handbook II) is L4. As an immediate action, cast mirror image that regenerates 1 image per round to a max of 8 images.

Starting with L5 spells, you have telekinesis, lesser planar binding, wall of force, and TELEPORT! Sure, teleport isn't useful all the time, but you can cross hundreds of miles as a standard action and take others with you!

At level 1, a Wizard starts with a spell book. The market value of each page is 50G. Nothing in the rules states that all your starting spells must be in one book; therefore, put your keeper spells in one book then bind the others in another book and sell that. What do you do with all this extra money? Buy mules (preferably with the Magebred template applied, from Eberron Campaign Setting)) and guard dogs (also possibly Magebred). This is how you solo your way to higher levels without splitting XP or loot.

[tyckspoon]

We went a little nuts with creeping around with Mage Armour and light crossbows, taking every encounter like an amateur sniper team...


This is honestly the smartest way to play most classes around level 1-3; even the more durable tank-type classes like Crusaders and Knights don't really want to get stuck into a melee brawl if they can help it at those levels. It's tempting fate to crit you down too much. On the other hand, a party full of ready-to-fire ranged weapons and paying some attention to fire control, scouting, and securing surprise rounds can clean up almost any on-CR fight and has good odds of having everybody survive to the levels where you can afford to operate in a little more traditionally fantastic/heroic style.

[Verte]

The DM was so pissed that he quit, and I never heard from any of them again.

Well, that seems like a rather immature response from those guys...I mean, unless they were just friendly farmers enjoying a few pints and the DM described them poorly so they only seemed like enemies. But I'm assuming that's not the case, and besides, quitting instantly is still a rash response.

Anyway, yeah, even low-level wizards can be pretty badass with careful planning. Color Spray is obviously awesome against low-HD creatures that aren't immune to mind-affecting spells. Silent Image is fun, too, if you have a DM who will work with it, since it's entertaining to trick NPCs. Charm Person can make any humanoid (with a low will save, keep in mind) your buddy for an hour.

However, I'd say the key to playing an effective wizard is planning out your actions and knowing what will probably lie ahead. Divination spells can help with that a lot at higher levels (like from 7 onwards), but they're not quite as useful for those purposes at low levels. I found that this meant making plans with the rest of the party - and trying to keep to them - was important. It was fairly irritating to prepare, say, 4 Invisibility spells and have them be wasted because the cleric or barbarian wanted to charge in while infiltrating an enemy base after all.

But basically, I'd say playing a 1st level wizard can be pretty awesome and their vulnerabilities can be mitigated - just make sure to learn a spell that will boost your defenses, pick up a ranged weapon, and avoid melee combat. Also, I'd advise against making a 3rd level character that take on the Tarrasque - I mean, I'd hate that as a player and as a DM. I wouldn't recommend actively trying to overshadow the other PCs at things they're supposed to be good at, either.

[Killer Angel]

At level 1, a Wizard starts with a spell book. The market value of each page is 50G. Nothing in the rules states that all your starting spells must be in one book; therefore, put your keeper spells in one book then bind the others in another book and sell that.

True, but... have you found a DM that let you go away with this? :smalltongue:



Also, I'd advise against making a 3rd level character that take on the Tarrasque

to survive the Tarrasque, is different from taking on.

[chomskola]

IF you are juggling the tarrasque and a dragon in the other hand, I think you are OP

[Slipperychicken]

what, if anything, in particular makes them badass?:smallcool:

Roleplaying a badass does. Same as any other character, at any level. Act like that cunning, devious bastard* your character sheet says you are, and always come out on top. Remember: that 18 INT is for more than just spells**. :smallcool:


*This doesn't mean backstabbing your party while fighting goblins, saying "hurr durr I join Evils side cuz I'm Evil lol". It means using your head to get things done. Make plans and improvise when complications arise. Know when to run.

**Ender didn't have (or need) superpowers to be a badass, and neither do you. Use your head, use your tools, use your environment, use your allies. Earn respect from the powerful, outsmart your enemies, be daring and creative.


EDIT: Also, the second sentence of my sig: "A character lives to level 20 by being the most ruthless, lucky, capable, and paranoid bastard around."

[Big Fau]

to survive the Tarrasque, is different from taking on.

There was this old exploit on the WotC forums where a 3rd level Wizard with every 1st and 2nd level spell is prepared as Grease and a handful of wands with two different cantrips could kill an Iron Golem. Not quite Wizard 3 VS Tarrasque, but still pretty impressive.

[Roguenewb]

I find that wizards are actually *more* powerful at level 1. They tend to hit a weak spot from 2-4, and then from 5 on start to pick it back up again. The reasoning: at level 1, nobody has any HP, and one solid hit knocks anyone but the barbarian on his ass, so it makes little difference. Also, at level 1, even BBEGs have 4 or less HD for sleep and color spray, making the spells awesome, and saves suck, so they connect a lot.

[Spuddles]

Until about level 7, a wizard will typically lack the spell slots & actions to both be an offensive power house and have the defenses to keep him safe. This can be mitigated by being a specialist or focused specialist, but this means giving up some pretty important utility spells- gust of wind, wind wall, invisibility, mirror image, charm person, ray of stupidity, color spray, sleep, minor image.

Note that the two best spells at level 1, sleep and color spray, are not in either transmutation or conjuration, the schools advocated as ones you should focus specialize in. That means you're getting, at best, one or two of those spells a day.

Played safe- using a tower shield when not casting, letting your other party members die, a low level wizard can do alright. It's not very badass, though. It's actually quite cowardly.

Once you get Black Tentacles and Solid Fog, you can lock down the enemy for enough rounds to put up the defenses you think you need (flight, haste, invisibility), then let your allies, again, die instead of you.

Come to think of it, being a wizard is mostly about letting other people do the hard work. :smallwink:

[eggynack]

It's somewhat situational, and relies on the dm, but the best and possibly only way to "kill" the tarrasque at level 3 is by using command undead to get an allip friend. Then you just wis drain the big guy until he collapses. Either that, or wealth by level at 3 is enough to buy a scroll of summon undead IV to do the exact same thing. If there aren't any governmental organizations that care about the tarrasque being dead enough to wish it so, that's pretty much the time to run. The tarrasque is depressingly easy to kill sometimes.

[Slipperychicken]

Come to think of it, being a wizard is mostly about letting other people do the hard work. :smallwink:

Any Commoner can do that. A Wizard can make their jobs far easier. As a guide once said: "You're GOD. Let the mortals have their victory" :smallcool: