Help with Wizard Nerf

[Viskocity]

Over the summer, I will be DMing my first game. In order to keep things slightly more under control, I want to nerf the tier one casters a bit. However, I still want to have the option to use them in the campaign world without making the players feel like they are getting a raw deal.

My initial idea is to increase casting time for prepared spells to one (maybe more?) minute. With a spellcraft check, however, the casting time can be decreased to one full-round action. This would make prepared casting classes (wizard, druid, archivist, cleric) less attractive to PCs and, hopefully, prevent them from seeing NPC wizards as 'cheating' by using an option not available to PCs. I don't know how high to set the DCs, so input is appreciated.

So, what does the playground think? I would be greatful to hear more suggestions.

[JoshuaZ]

Over the summer, I will be DMing my first game. In order to keep things slightly more under control, I want to nerf the tier one casters a bit. However, I still want to have the option to use them in the campaign world without making the players feel like they are getting a raw deal.

My initial idea is to increase casting time for prepared spells to one (maybe more?) minute. With a spellcraft check, however, the casting time can be decreased to one full-round action. This would make prepared casting classes (wizard, druid, archivist, cleric) less attractive to PCs and, hopefully, prevent them from seeing NPC wizards as 'cheating' by using an option not available to PCs. I don't know how high to set the DCs, so input is appreciated.

So, what does the playground think? I would be greatful to hear more suggestions.

A lot of the more broken spells will remain effectively broken in most contexts this way. Gate and Wish for example. Contingency will become more useful, and in fact will let them get away with a lot of effective casting in combat. Also, artificers are T1 and this won't do much to them.

[Salanmander]

I feel like that is either too much of a nerf, or not enough of a nerf. If the spellcraft DCs are high enough to have an effect, you're going to have wizards frequently going "Yup, another wasted round". If they're low enough that that doesn't happen much, it's not really a nerf, because full-round casting time isn't *that* bad.

One option might be to have fairly low DCs, but make the casting time 1 round, instead of a full-round action. (Side note: I really hate the way they chose to make that distinction.) A 1 round casting time means every enemy gets the chance to disrupt the spell, but it's still doing something each turn.


On a side note, I would be hesitant doing something like this for your first time DMing. If you're a veteran player and familiar with the group it's probably not that bad an idea, but making big changes on your first time out is risky.

[Viskocity]

I suppose I should mention that we are starting at level one. It is doubtful that the PCs will gain access to 9th level spells before the end of the campaign, unless things take a very strange turn. For my part, I will use common sense to make sure that the world doesn't turn into a tippyverse.

You do have a point about artificer. However, I haven't heard any interest in playing one from anybody yet, so that may be a non-issue.

[JadePhoenix]

You know, if thisis our first game, I'd start it by the book. Maybe you won't even run into problems with wizards. Maybe no one in your group will want to play a wizard, even.

[kabreras]

You know, if thisis our first game, I'd start it by the book. Maybe you won't even run into problems with wizards. Maybe no one in your group will want to play a wizard, even.

What she said, i play wizard a lot, i even play incantatrix in a campaign.
But i dont play to break the game but to have fun with friends so i wont use stupids combos that will let them doing nothing and following.
Not all players just want to pwn stuff.

Wizards have the raw power to break a game, but most players will only see that on the paper and wouldnt even try it ingame, because.. Well breaking a game is not fun once its done and a game is about having fun.

[nedz]

You know, if this is your first game, I'd start it by the book. Maybe you won't even run into problems with wizards. Maybe no one in your group will want to play a wizard, even.

I'd go with this,
chances are you won't see any shenannegans, just talk to your players should it happen. How experienced are they anyway ?

The broken wizard stuff doesn't start until highish levels anyway.

[Zarrgon]

Your nerf won't do much more then annoy spellcasters at best, and maybe get them killed at worst, if your running a killer game.

Just as it takes a bit long to cast a spell, does not make the spell any less powerful or effective. And worse, your nerf hurts all spells. So a cleric will have a hard time casting a cure type spell in battle. You will also end up with way too much 'sitting around', such as ''yea I take forever to cast my spell, I'll be over here playing with my phone, let me know when I can do something".

The best nerf for you might just be, limit the spells. Make a quick list of 'common' spells...and that is all a character can normally know.

Even better is to just fix the broken spells.

[Grod_The_Giant]

I suppose I should mention that we are starting at level one.

Psh. Your bigger problem at level one will by the half-orc barbarian with a greatsword and Extra Rage. Casters take a few levels to become really competitive, and even longer to dominate.

[DeAnno]

Psh. Your bigger problem at level one will by the half-orc barbarian with a greatsword and Extra Rage. Casters take a few levels to become really competitive, and even longer to dominate.

Extra Rage is a totally BS awesome feat at level 1 by the way :smallsmile: It's like: not getting enough of your class feature? Here have three times as much of it!

[Averis Vol]

you could just remove the problem spell. no wish, no gate, no polymorph etc.

its not a particularly good fix but whats the best way to solve a problem? ruthlessly tear it out of existence, of course, of course.

[Rallicus]

Not sure if there's a perfect way to nerf wizards in a 3.5 campaign. You may run into just as many problems nerfing them as you would playing them by the book.

I personally use IC ways to nerf wizards, by making spellcasting a criminal offense in some areas and having a world that is populated by people very wary of magic. Instead of blasting off spells without thinking, they have to plan their moves intelligently.

[2xMachina]

IMO, in battle use of spells, are not a problem. Most of them direct damage spells are just a different method to deal damage, like a alternate sword. There's some that target different things (like saves instead of AC, and damage lvl, stats instead of HP), which can be more powerful than physical damage, but it isn't that OP. Battlefield control is pretty strong, but it lets the beatstick hit stuff easier and be more useful.

The best spells are those used out of combat. Most complains are like Polymorph (buff spell), Teleport (bypass traveling), Rope Trick (instant protected resting place). These utility spells can be party balanced tho, since the whole party stands to benefit (Polymorph can be casted on the Melee killing machine instead).

[Tenebris]

Pretty much a good nerf would be not giving wizards those two bonus spells per level. Thus you will have a limited control over the spells they get.

Also maybe keeping track of the most ridiculous components (bat guano - huh! :smallbiggrin: ). Not allowing them to rest just anywhere anytime ("Sorry, you don't fell sleepy anyway." :smallwink: ). For divine casters, denying them casting spells that are against their moral code ("Flaming scimitar in the middle of the forest? No way, I'm a druid!").

[Tyndmyr]

Over the summer, I will be DMing my first game. In order to keep things slightly more under control, I want to nerf the tier one casters a bit. However, I still want to have the option to use them in the campaign world without making the players feel like they are getting a raw deal.

My initial idea is to increase casting time for prepared spells to one (maybe more?) minute. With a spellcraft check, however, the casting time can be decreased to one full-round action. This would make prepared casting classes (wizard, druid, archivist, cleric) less attractive to PCs and, hopefully, prevent them from seeing NPC wizards as 'cheating' by using an option not available to PCs. I don't know how high to set the DCs, so input is appreciated.

So, what does the playground think? I would be greatful to hear more suggestions.

I would avoid it. Why?

In short, it's a nerf that is reduced by optimization. Optimized wizards can crush a spellcraft check. Unoptimized ones...not as much. So, you'll end up nerfing the not-problematic casters, but not really nerfing the problematic ones as much.

Honestly, I would suggest not nerfing them at all for the first game. Most players, in RL, don't want to break the game, and many wouldn't know how to even if they did. Fix problems if they arise, but no need to add extra rules unless something pops up.

Edit: Oh yeah, and casters are definitely not broken at level one. No nerf necessary.

[ericgrau]

Over the summer, I will be DMing my first game.
The first time you DM you should avoid major rules changes. As pointed out here you could easily go about it the wrong way. i.e. don't do it with spellcraft. Second it's easy to accidentally overdo it. A 10 round delay in a 5 round combat amounts to spell failure which is huge. I've seen at least a few cases where a campaign was ruined for a PC because his wizard was nerfed into the ground. It would have been better for them if wizard was banned instead of falling into a trap.

The #1 thing to remember is that most players won't try to break the system and nerfs won't stop people from breaking the system anyway. Do skim character sheets for anything that's a little over the top, but don't make huge house rules. If you do make nerfs, then try something minor to merely encourage players to try other things. Avoid sweeping "fixes" like the plague, especially until you've had some practice.

Here's an example of something minor you can use if you want: All casters skip caster levels 7 and 12. It assumes that if no one tries to break the game then different classes can already play well together without the nerf. It merely gives a little nudge away from casters. Casters have trouble until 3rd level spells so I didn't delay 3rds at all.

[sonofzeal]

Check out my "minimum intervention balance fix" from my sig. I've used it, and it worked well. Wizards feel more unique, Clerics have to pay attention to their god/church more, and it gives everyone some basic minimum power to get by with while limiting access to some of the higher end stuff.

It's also pretty simple to port into a game, because (as the name suggests) the changes are relatively small.

[Fluffy_1.0]

Want balance without all the work?

Try e6 (http://www.enworld.org/forum/general-rpg-discussion/206323-e6-game-inside-d-d.html)

If you think casters are still too dominate, you can try out gnorman's classes (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=215986) and races (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=231153).

Much more balanced though a bit more powerful than stock e6 IMO. Plus less sources to worry about as a new DM.

Just my two CP.

[Balor01]

Here are my suggestions:
- Max spell lvl is 5 (higher lvl spells are available for metamagic shenannigans)
- Approve ALL spells players intend to use. Remember, wizards learn spells from scrolls. Strong wizards are unvilling to give the "edge" to just about every would-be caster that comes along so no "Spells 'r' us" should truly exist
- Feats are learned, not taken. If you meet appropriate teacher, you may take that feat. If not, well, no batman for you
- Magic items may or may not be in store to buy. Also, components to craft magic items may or amy not be in store

Just prevent people from going "I take this BS feat to rip out the campaign tracks, train and train station."

inb4 raging munchkins

[dsmiles]

How do I nerf wizards?

"Gentleman's Agreement"

My wizard players agree not to break the game, and I agree not to break their (figurative) necks. :smallcool:

[Slipperychicken]

"Gentleman's Agreement"


Most of the time, these balance issues hardly come up in real life, so you can leave the Wizard alone. Just tell your players to avoid abuse so the game can be fun, and that's pretty much always enough. If they're the types who's idea of a spellsword is Sorcerer5/Fighter5, you have nothing to worry about.


Also, try to keep an open mind about things, stay calm, and avoid "ban-mode". What I mean by that is to give things proper consideration, reading the rules-text and googling it for good measure, before outright banning. I've seen games where the GM had banned about half the listed spells (in core-only, too), and replaced every fighting class with an overpowered homebrew monstrosity. That said, banning overpowering things is okay, just give it some thought.

[Yora]

A lot of the more broken spells will remain effectively broken in most contexts this way. Gate and Wish for example. Contingency will become more useful, and in fact will let them get away with a lot of effective casting in combat. Also, artificers are T1 and this won't do much to them.
Wizards and clerics are perfectly fine classes. All the problems with these classes are some of their spells. If you want to avoid problems with these classes, remove or change the most problematic spells.
If you change the spells, you don't need to change anything else. If you don't change the spells, everything else you do will not make any difference.

Now druids are a bit different, since even without any spells, they are still quite good.

[Red_Dog]

=>sonofzeal

Cool fix. I like it... to a point.

If a wizard selects one of the two silly schools [Transmutation or Conjuration] they will always have an answer to everything as those 2 schools alone are just plain silly in there versatility.

But more on topic========================================>

I suggest one of 2 things to counterbalance Wizards, both have good and bad sides=>

Gentlemen's Agreement.
Pros> Simple enough in theory. Doesn't require DM to break his mind on how to contain a wizard. Saves time.
Cons> Requires serious player co-operation, might cause party feeling invisible, might cause a wizard to be bored out of his skull, might force a character development of the wizard player that he not necessarily wants to go with, might make others feel inadequate

OR


"More Powerful Astronaut"
~One of the Peter Griffin's jobs of choice
Also known as Power balance/Spike fix[I use it extensively]
*[I]Basic idea> Your world has other wastly more powerful beings[odds are they are wizards]. They are not antagonist[they can be] nor are they "space police"[they again, CAN be]. They are just beings that would be threaten by someones power who goes around and changes reality, crashes economies and does all the nonsence that wizards tend to. On an average day, a PC wizard won't show up on their divination-powered radar, but if he starts stirring poop up, he will quickly find himself in a presence of one of them, or at least on their watch list.*
Pros>Very self contained, stops a lot truly silly shenanigans. If concept used as antagonists than it is better to be split up so in encounters wizard is per-occupied in holding back a dangerous foe while the rest of the party mops up minions or closes in on the target.
Cons>Requires a back story, and some campaigns aren't geared for this[que THE basic dungeon crawl. Wizard can use tons of tricks that will make it a cake walk, yet won't be so powerful as to make blips of radars], so one needs to get creative.
Maybe mentioning that there is a wizard tower in a general area, but lots of people say its a myth? Maybe this region is protected to some degree by a deity X and his/her Planetars visit from time to time? Maybe the land is ruled by a powerful king who, rumor has it, made some questionable deals with some very questionable outsiders? Perhaps there is rumored to be a daemonic cult of Dagon [usually fairly non-interventional daemonic cult] who know one seen, but the town drunk swears, he/she saw just a week ago? Maybe an old pick a rainbow color Dragon who is old and enigmatic lives around and no one seen him/her attack anyone but people still sleep with one eye open?
So something along these lines ^^

So this is my take on this.


<==============================================>

By the by, I like the idea of flat out increasing casting time on most spells but basic damage once[as they are not an issue] to a minute squared per spell level. So Nine level spell can only be cast in 81 Minutes+its actual time. I think[Cthulhu RP system to my memory, but don't take my words on this] lots of system need a long time to use magic as magic is considered powerful.

And instead of using combat Spellcraft checks, make him pass Spellcraft checks with easier DCs while he is casting it to not fail and higher DCs to cast it faster.

Also you could let him use Spellcraft checks to "prepare a spell" to cast in its normal time, using Spellcraft DC and "discharge it" at the encounter. I'd still limit number of these spells maybe by his Int modifier?
*Cast Timestop for 81 minutes in base camp, than "hold it"[using Spellcraft DC] and discharge when he needs it later in the day*

And to somewhat counterbalance this, make him never prepare spells. He has a book, he casts a spell out of it on a spot, without rest or anything else. He is still limited by the amount of spells he can cast as usual, but needs not to sleep, just for a day to pass(explanation? Magic! = ] ).

Hope any of this helps someone ^^.

[Grod_The_Giant]

stuff

Honestly, I feel like the whole "wizard police" thing is far more likely to cause problems than a gentleman's agreement. It's pretty easy to play a wizard who won't break the game, especially if you're a newer player. The encounter-ending spells aren't always obvious, after all, and even if they are, it's pretty easy to avoid temptation by just never scribing them.

I really recommend not using any nerf that increases casting time to more than one round. Exalted does this, and having just played a Twilight caste sorcerer, let me tell you... it sucks. No-one wants to spend half his time in battle sitting there and chanting. It doesn't matter how powerful or weak my spells are, I want to use them.

Remember, you're playing a game, here. More than being balanced, it needs to be fun. As long as everyone's having a good time, let realism and class balance go hang themselves.

(That's not to say that poor balance can't ruin the fun of the game, because having a god-wizard can absolutely make other people feel useless. But it's better not to take pre-emptive steps unless you know-- not just "theoretically possibility as discussed on the internet-- there will be a problem.)

[Wings of Peace]

Personally I'd say base your nerfs off the group you're gaming with. If they're all new to the game like you're new to dming then I'd recommend very few nerf actually.

[Rift_Wolf]

If you're playing with friends, a gentleman's agreement should suffice. However, if you're playing in a university society or somewhere where you won't know all the players at the start, I'd lay out some simple ground rules; ban the wizard if you're worried about it breaking the game. I admit I've seen people break other classes (PF Summoner, Magus, 3.5 Bard, even Fighter...), but to me wizards are a massive headache. Sorcerers, at the very least, are much more limited, especially at 1st level; I've seen sorcerers rendered utterly useless because of poor spell selection.

If it's your first game, you want to reduce the amount of problems that can occur. To me (I'm sure people will disagree with me, but this is my opinion) wizards are tough to play, tougher to GM.

[Red_Dog]

Rift_Wolf=>

Sorcs are a trap. They are, IMO, for experienced players only who actually know how to select spells/feats/PrC. That is why an average n00b sorcerer is not dangerous especially at lower levels. In fact, most of the T2 is a clever trap for new comers to D&D[even psions to a degree] as they require far more forethought to not drop 2 tiers at once.
*I, personally, heart sorcs, but it took me a while to make well balanced builds*

Grod_The_Giant=>

Well as I said, it doesn't have to be "police". If a DM wants a party dead, I am sure deities and demigods alone will provide enough answers on how to do this without any issues.

I just feel that subtle presence of a foe more powerful than you are by at least one circle of magic is a good way to fix things, as a DM could always just conveniently turn that into a plot arc when players are high enough to face it[simultaneously throwing another hooks like this into the picture]. Of course the DM shouldn't go hog wild on every action the wizard takes. But on average, when a party solves 4 encounters in one round each, the wizard/rest of T1 might be playying to his/her strenght just a bit too much.

Also, as I've mentioned, they do not have to be wizards, just someone with some spell casting or at the very least, psionic capabilities. ^^

[Verte]

Well, if all the other players are also new, nerfing all of the casters is probably not necessary. I mean, the first time I played D&D, I played a wizard, and I felt overshadowed by the barbarian until level 7. Granted, there was a lot of combat in that campaign, and the barbarian's player was more experienced than the other players.


My initial idea is to increase casting time for prepared spells to one (maybe more?) minute. With a spellcraft check, however, the casting time can be decreased to one full-round action. This would make prepared casting classes (wizard, druid, archivist, cleric) less attractive to PCs and, hopefully, prevent them from seeing NPC wizards as 'cheating' by using an option not available to PCs. I don't know how high to set the DCs, so input is appreciated.

Also, this doesn't seem like it work in the right way. Lower level casters - who are less likely to break the game - would be more likely to fail a spellcraft check. Higher level casters - who would be more likely to break the game - would be less likely to fail the check. Also, the sort of players who would want to break the game would also be able figure out ways to always succeed at the checks. Plus, the penalty is really steep for those who fail. D&D 3.5 battles tend to run anywhere from 5 minutes per round to 15 minutes per round. This means that if a caster fails his check, his player could be sitting around, doing nothing, for an hour or more if the battle runs for ten rounds. If it doesn't run for ten rounds, then they won't have done anything at all during the time they were waiting. Basically, it seems like it would punish new players, yet wouldn't have any effect on those who would actually break the game.

I mean, you could make it harder for them to obtain scrolls and learn spells. To do that, you could keep the stock of scrolls in magic shops low and reduce downtime between adventures (since wizards can use that time to learn more spells). You could make it so NPC wizards are possessive of their spells - which are the source of their power, after all - and therefore unlikely to sell scrolls of more powerful spells to strangers. It wouldn't really affect druids or clerics, though, and they're just as powerful as wizards.

[sonofzeal]

=>sonofzeal

Cool fix. I like it... to a point.

If a wizard selects one of the two silly schools [Transmutation or Conjuration] they will always have an answer to everything as those 2 schools alone are just plain silly in there versatility.
Oh, agreed. But it still probably knocks them down to T2, even for those schools. They can break the game, but only in a relatively limited number of ways. And if they choose a weaker school, they may drop as low as high-T3.

You can't actually balance arcane without rewriting many spells, but I think this variant gets everything towards a T2 range, without any complicated changes or obliviating the difference between classes. Well, Wizard is more T2-ish now. Cleric and Druid are going to depend more on the game, but at least most of their utility/prebuffing is now limited and they're playing the same game as everyone else most of the time, rather than the Super Happy Fun T1 Game they've traditionally had access to. And that makes the moments when they can unleash their true power all the more cinematic and pwnderful.

I like cinematic moments in my game, and if there's anything about T1 that I dislike it's the ability to spoil drama through circumventing obstacles trivially. But if unlocking that T1-might was the subject of an arduous quest to win their god's sanction, then using it to CoDzilla the BBEG into the ground... I dunno, it feels more earned, more real, more part of a viable narrative rather than a cheap cop-out.

If you want to make the T1 classes fit into a cinematic narrative without re-writing a whole bunch of spells, I think you could do a lot worse.

[Rogue Shadows]

Spellcasting, taken as a whole, is just fine; that is, the system works well enough. The problem, for the most part, is with individual spells.

Here's something half from me, half from EN World that you might want to consider.


General rules:
- Unless the spell is purely offensive or defensive, it always has a casting time of full-round action. Exception: feather fall
- Ranged touch attacks are gone. Any spell that used to require a ranged touch attack now requires a saving throw
- Any spell that in any way could be construed to be harmful to its intended target now allows a saving throw.
- Any spell not immediately useful in combat has a casting time of at least 1 minute or more (this is more flavor than anything). Exception: feather fall
- Spells that granted a rediculous bonus to a check, like Jump and Glibness, instead now just allow you to take 20 on that check without the time increase, even if rushed or under pressure.
- All Conjuration (Creation) [Acid] spells are now Evocation [Acid]
- All Necromancy [Fear, Mind-Influencing] spells are now Enchantment [Fear, Mind-Influencing]
- All Conjuration (Healing) spells are now Necromancy (Healing) spells.
- Polymorph effects change you completely into the target form in every way, such that you simply grab the appropriate monster entry and sub it for your character sheet. Any effects currently active on you are negated while polymorphed, you don't retain any abilities, you are for all intents and purposes the target creature...with two exceptions.
--- 1) You retain your own Int score; this allows polymorphing into animals and mindless critters without needing edge-case rules, and prevents players from turning into high-Int creatures to take advantage of high Knowledge modifiers (not a game-breaker, but something aesthetically undesirable).
--- 2) Any limited-use abilities of the form are unavailable, "limited-use" being defined as any abilities not able to be used every round all day without limitation, such as dragons' 1d4-round-recharge breath weapon, binders' every-5-rounds abilities, monster 3/day SLAs, and so forth.
- You cannot under any circumstance use a spell to gain wishes or limited wishes except by casting limited wish or wish yourself or under special circumstances as mandated by the DM. Even if you Gate in a monster with access to wish, it refuses to grant your wishes.

Specific Spell Fixes
Alter Self [fix: change into a creature of your type of 5 HD or lower. Further, you don't get natural armor, and your flying (if you acquire a fly speed) is always Clumsy or worse (if the new form's flying was worse than Clumsy)]

Astral Projection [fix: spell ends if the recipient leaves the Astral Plane by any means; OR doesn't make copies of worn and carried items]

Black Tentacles [fix: allow a Reflex save to leave the area un-grappled]

Blasphemy [fix: Will negates]

Cloudkill [fix: cloudkill is now poisonous; ergo, it can be interacted with as though it were a poison, including Antitoxin granting a bonus on saves, etc]

Comprehend Languages [fix: gives a set bonus of +10 to Decipher Script skills instead of auto-deciphering]

Dictum [fix: Will negates]

Discern Lies [fix: instead adds a flat +10 bonus to Sense Motive check]

Divine Power [fix: remove the ability to cast spells while under the effect of Divine Power]

Enlarge Person [fix: reduce duration to 1 rd/CL, and move to 3rd level]

Entangle [fix: reduce radius to 10'; OR move to 3rd level]

Freedom of Movement [fix: move to 6th level]

Gate [fix: delete the clause "In the case of a single creature, you can control it if its HD do not exceed twice your caster level." (this limits you to only creatures of equal or lower HD)]

Glitterdust [fix: "Spell Resistance: Yes (blinding only)"]

Holy Word [fix: Will negates]

Knock [fix: adds a flat +10 bonus to Open Lock checks]

Limited Wish [fix: you cannot in any way use limited wish to acquire more wishes. If you summon a creature, it will not grant you wishes nor limited wishes.]

Mage's/Mordenkainen's Disjunction [fix: does not permanently destroy magic items, but does suppress them for CL rounds]

Mage's/Mordenkainen's Magnificent Mansion [fix: It's gone. "I wish I had a private demiplane that has a single entrance" would be great as a 9th level spell. At 7th? I rather think not. Alternatively, change it so that it creates a physical, real-world mansion, the same way that Tiny Hut or Secure Shelter creates an actual hut]

Magic Circle vs. Evil/etc [fix: see Protection from Evil, and move to 5th level]

Mind Blank [fix: reduce duration to 10 min/CL]

Mirror Image [fix: you get 1d2 mirrored images +1 per 2 caster levels (max 1d2+5)]

Planar Binding line [fix: don't set a HD cap, set a CR cap instead; or use Summon Monster-like tables for call-able creatures]

Protection from Evil/etc [fix: only protects from possession and mind control originating from creatures of the warded-against alignment, and move to 3rd level]

Polymorph [fix: works as normal regarding restrictions on the forms able to be assumed, but the HD limit is 10]

Polymorph any Object [fix: as polymorph, exept that it additionally allows transmutation of creatures into objects and vice-versa, has an HD limit of 15, and has a duration of 1 hour regardless of form assumed]

Regeneration [fix: move down levels. Raise the level on ressurection spells. Why is it easier to bring the dead back to life than it is to grow a new limb?]

Resist Energy [fix: do not increase the energy resistance at higher CLs]

Rope Trick [fix: the rope can't be pulled inside the pocket dimension]

Shapechange [fix: as polymorph, except tht there are no limitations on type or composition of the forms assumed, the HD limit is 20, the caster can change forms as a swift action, and there is a 1,500 gp material component]

Wall of Stone/Iron [fix: these spells need a duration other than instantaneous. 1 hr/level?]

Web [fix: Drop STR DCs by 5 and allow half movement rate]

Word of Chaos [fix: Will negates]

[Tyndmyr]

By the by, I like the idea of flat out increasing casting time on most spells but basic damage once[as they are not an issue] to a minute squared per spell level. So Nine level spell can only be cast in 81 Minutes+its actual time. I think[Cthulhu RP system to my memory, but don't take my words on this] lots of system need a long time to use magic as magic is considered powerful.

Yeah, I'm sure that casting a Time Stop to get 1d4 extra rounds is TOTALLY worth wasting 811 rounds on.

This would be a clue that this is a bad fix.

[Fineous Orlon]

Easy nerfs for casters in general that are easy to remember:

1]The feat Leadership is for non-casters [or non-primary casters] only. Then only allow the feat 'Quicken Spell' if you allow Leadership.

Basically, this allows the players of non-casters to do more than 1 thing in a round if you allow casters to do more than 1 thing.

2]Impose a summoning limit, so the caster again does not monopolize the time spent during a round of an encounter. The limit may be numbers of creatures, or none with more casting capability than the caster has, etc.

3] Eliminate meta-magic reducing class abilities and feats. These multiply what spells can do faster than the fighter feats multiply what a fighter can do, in my opinion.

4] [Arcane-specific] Eliminate Wizards, and allow all the other arcane classes.

Whatever you do to limit Wizards or casters, try to be clear, concise, and if at all possible, do it ahead of time.