best "Anti" paladin

[Rickshaw]

playiing in an evil campaign where a lot of what we fight are paladins, specifically pelor. Aside from just being a straight up tier one class, what is the best Paladin killer the playground can come up with, in regards to negateing thier abilities/just straight up killin em?

[Emperor Ing]

Rogues can lead 'em into traps, sorcerers, psions, and other non-tier 1 casters can blast 'em from afar, once you get some form of flight you are golden. Warblades/Swordsages/Crusaders can beat 'em in a straight-up fight.

The best thing to do is consider the class and its weaknesses. Its primary weakness is a lack of combat options outside of "Hit 'em with big stick" and even fewer options outside of that. Their casting is laughable.

However, I suspect your GM might throw you a curveball and give you NPCs with various other classes, the characters whom may only have the title "Paladin" instead of the actual class.

[Righteous Doggy]

You know what they really wouldn't expect? Someone who wasn't evil!

[Namfuak]

Targeting their charisma could actually be useful (assuming they are actually paladins the class), since it shuts down Divine Grace, Lay on Hands, and Smite all at once. Without divine grace a Paladin will basically never succeed on reflex saves (and is quite hampered when it comes to will saves as well, although presumably their wisdom will give them at least a +2 bonus), so ranged touch blasting and area spells are perfectly viable. Standard low level magic tricks work well against them (glitterdust, color spray, grease) until your casters get more powerful and the hardly-modified 1d10/1d12 + 1.5*STR damage they do is a lot less threatening (assuming they are actually going two-handed, and not sword and board).

[Feralventas]

Bard/White-Raven Warblade/Blackguard.

The best way to kill a Paladin is to strike at their faith and take away their ability to believe in their cause. Show them the evils of their ways, and the virtues of your's, and lead them down the path not of dying for their own cause, but of falling for your's.

High charisma, high int, maybe high dex for slight of hand effects. You won't do as much in combat directly, but you're a boon to have at the side of a combatant through aiding, supporting, and enabling your allies. Out of combat, either by taking prisoners to convert or by infiltrating enemy ranks, you can place ideas to breed dissent among their ranks, smear the reputations of their leaders to remove trust and inspire fear and isolation.

Paladins are people. Their faith is all that makes them dangerous to you. Take that away from them, and you have won.

Edit: If you're dead set on just breaking them in battle, Ego Whip power via Psion Telepath (which can also do the bard thing, just not as easily) will nuke down their Charisma. This debuffs their saves so that you can take them out with either save-or-suck spells or otherwise just blast them with low-level augmented powers. If you want to meet them blade for blade, Crusader out of the Tome of Battle should work fine.

[Greyfeld85]

If your DM allows homebrew, you might take a look at my 10 level Fallen (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=12979115#post12979115) prestige class. It's has a very strong anti-paladin flavor.

[nedz]

Why a T2 class of course :smallbiggrin:

There are a number of ways of masking your alignment any of which should allow you get past them.

Other than that they are are melle class so battle field control, which you don't neccessarily need to be a high tier class to be able to do.

[RndmNumGen]

Telepath Psion would be interesting. Dominate/Charm otherwise innocent people to fight the paladins(Smite Evil won't work, may need to use Nonlethal), and Ego Whip them to cut their CHA down until they fall unconscious.

[hex0]

Targeting their charisma could actually be useful (assuming they are actually paladins the class.

Actually since Paladins are MAD, targeting INT and DEX are nice choices as well since they are dump stats for them most of the time.

[legomaster00156]

The best anti-Paladin is a level 1 Lawful Good Commoner. Remain completely unarmed and non-hostile. If they kill you, they Fall instantly.

[dspeyer]

How about a warlock?

Fly above him and slowly eldritch blast him to death. Paladins generally have no touch ac to speak of. If he gets a flight spell, devour it. Then mock him with how the lesser demons you made a deal with gave you much better power than all the forces of goodness empowered him with.

[Averis Vol]

bard/dread witch, make them truly feel fear.

[Particle_Man]

An arcane class that summons celestials all the time? The paladin can't smite evil if the opponents are not evil. So Sorcerer (tier 2)? ;)

[Averis Vol]

An arcane class that summons celestials all the time? The paladin can't smite evil if the opponents are not evil. So Sorcerer (tier 2)? ;)

can an evil character summon (and have them listen to him) celestials? i'd think they'd turn and attack alongside the paladins. =P

[Fouredged Sword]

A neutral caster can, and summons don't get a choice to obey or not. Calling is another bad of cats though, so stay to summon monsters.

[Averis Vol]

oh, never mind on my point, i was remembering the "if it is air, earth, fire, water ..etc etc. then its that kind of spell" so yea, that would only affect clerics.

[Acanous]

Shivering Touch.

You shouldn't need to cast it more than twice.

[Midnight_v]

For you guys? Thematically?


This guy. No questions asked.

http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=12260.0

However, a simple crusader would do. Since they have "smite" anything and are just in general better than paladins in general.

I don't know what level you are but a Duskblade really does well for this too.

Funny thing I remember on the old wotc board someone made Jason(Friday the 13) was a duskblade 16/Lich. and it really was perfect.

In brief, there are many a paladin killing class and build, the question is "HOW" you want to beat the pally's up.
So a couple questions:
1 What level are you now.
2 Do you mind if I just crank out a quick build?
Try this...

Human Duskblade 6
Hp 48
Attack (12) 6+ str 5 +1 weapon
Saves: F:7 R:3 W:5
Skills: Knowledges (any 5); Concentration (all skills maxed)
Abilities:
Str 20(16 + enhancement) Dex 12 Con 16 (15 + 1 point) Int 14 Wis 10 Chr 10
Featss
Human: Versitle Spellcaster 1st Power Attack, 2nd level bonus: Combat Casting, 3rd: Knowledge Devotion 6: Obtain Familiar (Yo dawg, I heard you like touch spells...)

Spells. 0: Doesn't matter Except to not that because of versitle spellcaster you'll be burning these to cast 1st level spells which is really cool.
1st: Burning Blood, Chill Touch, Ray of Enfeeblement, Swift Fly or (Resist Energy), Shocking Grasp
2nd: Dimension Hop, See invisibility.
Weapon: +1 (reach weapon of your choosing) + Armor spikes
Bracers of entagling Blast.

Tactics:
Using this you can almost outright kill any single target of your level.
Knowledge devotion = Power attack bonus 2-handed
Burning Blood 3d6 + 5d6 shocking grasp + wpn/str damage, plus your familiar can jolly well fly in and shocking graps for an addtional 5d6, and 1/day quickcast 5d6 Shocking grasp.
However....
You can also debuff people over a few rounds as you have both ray of enfeeblement, Chill touch (with bracers of entangling, hopefully, mic 2000gp)
and dimension hop as well as swift fly.
You can literally Ray of Enfeeblement, swift fly out of range, laugh.
You: Channel Chill touch
Familiar: Chill Touch
5 foot step: Quick Cast Ray of enfeeblment.
Say "Pelor? Where is he now?"

See paladins generally tend to have a heavy armor, high strength and a weakness vs touch attacks, hilariously you're a "Dusk"blade killing paladins of Pelor. Nothing could be more fitting. You can also channel dimension hop by the way throwing people off cliffs.

I got a couple more if you're interested. Psywar, Crusader both should work really well, and lastly, The Blackguard/demonbinder. . . by phaedrusxy.