cones..cylinders

[chomskola]

Hello, does anyone have links to visualisations of the spell types in DnD such as cones, cyclinders etc, I had trouble visualising them in 3d. Even a better description than the one in the Core book would be preferable.

[Darth_Versity]

DMG pg 307. Cylinders are just cones that also go up (and down I guess), not just flat on the ground so they may strike flying opponents.

[shadow_archmagi]

Well, for a cone, think of an ice cream cone, or a party hat. It's sort of like a round pyramid. Here are some cones cones (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&q=cone&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=6w-xT5HxM4fA8ASJ_Z3pCw&biw=1920&bih=950&sei=7Q-xT8jQNo-W8gStnIH5CA)

Cylinders are shaped like soup cans, or batteries. Here are some cylinders. cylinders (http://www.google.com/search?um=1&hl=en&safe=off&biw=1920&bih=950&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=cylinder&oq=cylinder&aq=f&aqi=g10&aql=&gs_l=img.3..0l10.43763.44775.0.44843.8.7.0.1.1.1.1 05.505.4j2.6.0...0.0.jO7-aNwSePw)

[chomskola]

whats the logic behind using cones rather than cylinders and vice-versa, is it possible or necessary to determine the size of the cylinder in order to work out who would be affected?

[nedz]

DMG pg 307. Cylinders are just cones that also go up (and down I guess), not just flat on the ground so they may strike flying opponents.
Sorry, this is wrong.

whats the logic behind using cones rather than cylinders and vice-versa, is it possible or necessary to determine the size of the cylinder in order to work out who would be affected?

Cylinders are circles with a center given by the chosen vertex, projected upwards. That is they effect all the tiles within the circle and everything above them to the given height.

A vertex is just an intersection of the grid, the point between four square tiles.

Cones are a lot more flexible, especially if you are flying, since you can make any of the conic sections with them. So you can make a circle, an ellipse, a parabola, a hyperbola, a line or a wedge: where they intersect the floor. Theoretically you can make a point also, but thats very hard in practice.

Normally, if you are standing on the ground, you only get to use the wedge form. Imagine a line which you can sweep through 90 degrees, the length of the line is the range of the spell. By angling the cone up you can make a smaller wedge shape on the ground.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Also, a cylinder can usually be placed anywhere within a given range, while a cone typically has to begin adjacent to your square.

[nedz]

Also, a cylinder can usually be placed anywhere within a given range, while a cone typically has to begin adjacent to your square.

Yes, and the apex of the cone has to be one of the corners of your square.

[chomskola]

I thought the apex of a cone could be an intersection? if so, is it better to use an intersection?

[Grod_The_Giant]

I thought the apex of a cone could be an intersection? if so, is it better to use an intersection?

It can be either. Check out the templates in the DMG (page 307)-- they have two templates for each cone, one starting at the corner, and one on a flat side. Starting at a corner is easier to draw, is all.

[nedz]

I thought the apex of a cone could be an intersection? if so, is it better to use an intersection?

I'm not sure what you mean by intersection ?
PH p175 states any corner of your square

[Psyren]

Pathfinder has all the diagrams online (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/area-effect-diagrams), so you can lift them for 3.5 if you're AFB.

[nedz]

These are very good, but the Pathfinder line effect is different to the 3.5 one;
or at least I always thought so. Looking at the main text of P176 in the PH the wording is almost identical, but the wording in the explainatory diagram is different.

Basically Pathfinder and the 3.5 main text state
A line-shaped spell affects all creatures in squares through which the line passes
The pathfinder diagram has straight lightning bolts being 5' wide.



The text in the PH's diagram states
All squares through which the line passes or touches are affected by the attackThe implication of this would be that a lightning bolt cast straight down the edge of a line of squares would be 10' wide ? One certainly specifies two vertecies for a line effect.

I had never noticed this before.

[Psyren]

These are very good, but the Pathfinder line effect is different to the 3.5 one;
or at least I always thought so. Looking at the main text of P176 in the PH the wording is almost identical, but the wording in the explainatory diagram is different.

Whenever you run into a situation like this, be sure you're comparing the 3.5 text to the text in the official PRD. (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/magic.html) As good as the PFSRD is about organizing content and providing ancillary resources (like spreadsheets and images) occasionally they add unofficial embellishments or reword things on their own, causing discrepancies like these.

The official Paizo text, from the link I provided, is below:



A line-shaped spell shoots away from you in a line in the direction you designate. It starts from any corner of your square and extends to the limit of its range or until it strikes a barrier that blocks line of effect. A line-shaped spell affects all creatures in squares through which the line passes.

This is word-for-word the 3.5 text, removing all confusion.

[nedz]

Whenever you run into a situation like this, be sure you're comparing the 3.5 text to the text in the official PRD. (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/magic.html) As good as the PFSRD is about organizing content and providing ancillary resources (like spreadsheets and images) occasionally they add unofficial embellishments or reword things on their own, causing discrepancies like these.

The official Paizo text, from the link I provided, is below:

This is word-for-word the 3.5 text, removing all confusion.

There is no issue, AFAIK, with Pathfinder. The ambiguitity is with 3.5.

Normally Text Trumps Table, but More Specific Trumps General; but that doesn't help in this case ?

[ericgrau]

The text in the PH's diagram states The implication of this would be that a lightning bolt cast straight down the edge of a line of squares would be 10' wide ? One certainly specifies two vertecies for a line effect.
Correct, and the example of a line spell in the PH shows this in the picture. It uses a lightning bolt as the specific example.

The lightning bolt spell itself is a bit confusing since it says the bolt is 5 feet wide. But it affects creatures in a 10 foot wide area. I wish they made the bolt 6 feet wide or 4 feet wide or a nondescript width or anything but 5 feet wide to avoid confusing people.