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Marlowe
2012-05-15, 07:44 AM
Now, there's classes I avoid should its name contain certain components. If a class starts with "War-" then the next bit better be "-lock". "-Blade" is a deal-breaker. So is "Sword-". "Dragon" is right out of the question. "Shaman" is a red flag, so is "Spirit".

Which is why it's taken me this long to have a look at the Spirit Shaman in Complete Divine. The hideous picture http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20071031001421/nwn2/images/c/cc/Spiritshaman.jpg doesn't help either. And I'm surprised to find I actually like it. Interesting "spells known" mechanic, good spells per day, spontaneous casting, good chassis, all the weapons that a caster actually would want. Druid spell list. With none of a Druid's annoying baggage. Unusual class skill list. Good skill points for a caster. Interesting class features.

Some things puzzle me though. Now, one thing that isn't good about the SS is they have an unfortunate abbreviation, the other is that they have split-stat casting. Wisdom determines spell levels known and bonus spells per day, while Charisma effects save DCs and also some of the class features like Wild empathy and Chastise Spirit. Wisdom also effects a lot of the class skills.

I could work with this, but what puzzles me is the handbook. (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19865442/The_Spirit_Shaman_Handbook). It advises the player to pump his charisma and use wisdom as secondary. Now, I see how save DCs are important, but I don't see them as more important than getting your spell levels in the first place. Not to mention leaving a lot of your class skills high and dry.

Am I really missing something here? How can spell DCs be more important than actually having higher level spells? And yes, I realize that there's a feat to make everything go through Charisma, but they're not assuming you take it. Again, what am I missing?

Another one is that because of the very limited number of spells an SS can have retrieved at one time, the Spontaneous Summoner and Spontaneous Healer (or wounder, if you're so inclined) feats are very attractive to them. If you can get both then you effectively have 5 spells known per level instead of 3. So, what would be the best way of getting Knowledge/Religion on your class skill list for SHealer?

Thirdly, does anyone actually play these guys? There's very little about them on the internet. They look good on paper, what experience have people had with the performance?

Gwendol
2012-05-15, 07:48 AM
Also, there is the OA spirit shaman, which I like a lot:

Monk unarmed combat
Animal Companion (as druid)
Cleric domains
and a mix of cleric and druid spells.

Not to mention that the picture looks a lot better :-)

Duke of URL
2012-05-15, 07:53 AM
Am I really missing something here? How can spell DCs be more important than actually having higher level spells? And yes, I realize that there's a feat to make everything go through Charisma, but they're not assuming you take it. Again, what am I missing?

If you're only depending on Wisdom for access to spell levels, you can't dump it, but it is secondary. The simplest method is WIS 13 -- by the time you need higher scores to access higher spell levels, WBL should allow you to get them via enhancement items. You could conceivable start with a slightly lower score for a higher-level game start if you can spend part of your starting wealth on a tome to increase your Wisdom.

Urpriest
2012-05-15, 07:53 AM
No direct knowledge of the guy who made the handbook, but I would imagine the idea would be to have sufficient Wis so that your normal Wis item can bump you up to 19, and leave the rest for Cha, rather in the same way melee Clerics are advised that they don't need much Wis. That said, I don't think it's all that hard with the Druid list to build a character who doesn't rely much on save DCs, making the bonus spells of higher Wis more attractive.