Star Wars or Lord of the Rings?

[fergo]

So, my girlfriend has never seen Star Wars or Lord of the Rings. Not the greatest sin in the world, but still, she should at least give them a go :smalltongue:.

After our exams are over we're hopefully going to have time to watch at least one film (bearing in mind LotR films tend to be ridiculously long :smallwink:). So, it'll either be The Fellowship or A New Hope.

Trouble is, I can't decide which one to choose (she has no preferences).

She's a fan of the new Dr. Who series, so she may like the general sci-fi-ness of Star Wars. On the other hand, not to put a fine point on it, LotR is more modern, and on a superficial level may be more accessible.

The third option is to start with the Phantom Menace (note: I'm not dramatically opposed to the prequels; tPM was the first Star Wars film I saw in the cinema when I was young and I loved it. Haven't seen it for a few years though). It's modern, it's flashy, it's accessible, it has awesome pod racing. But it just... feels wrong :smallyuk:.

Also, I personally really want to see the original trilogy again; haven't seen them in aaaaaages.

So, yeah, any thoughts? Anyone else tried to get someone into either trilogy? :smallsmile:

[Brother Oni]

I suggest A New Hope. Its story is fairly self contained (just set up well for the sequels) and is a good action/adventure film independent of the rest of the universe.
Age isn't an impediment on the film quality.

The Fellowship of the Ring is intended to be part of a trilogy, so doesn't work too well as a stand alone film. More background knowledge is required than ANH - bear in mind that ANH was the first film ever in the the Star Wars universe, so it's a bit more accessible in my opinion.

I'm going to pretend you didn't suggest The Phantom Menace... :smalltongue:

[Bulldog Psion]

I'd say go for Star Wars, but that's likely just my boundless loathing for the LotR movies speaking.*

Objectively, though, I'd say Star Wars. It moves a lot faster, IMO, and anyway, it's probably a bigger pop culture icon, so it's more of an "experience" if you're looking to expand her movie viewing. Plus, it's a lot easier to figure out what's going on without a lot of exposition.

*And I mean boundless -- there is not one second in any of the three movies that isn't a crime against humanity. Even as movies, without any reference to the originals, they're ghastly -- like Wayne's "The Conqueror".

[Whiffet]

Start with A New Hope and then finish the original trilogy if she's okay with that. Star Wars films are more essential to pop culture than the LOTR films.

Not that LOTR doesn't have a place, mind you, it's just that Star Wars is STAR WARS.

[Tiki Snakes]

I suggest A New Hope. Its story is fairly self contained (just set up well for the sequels) and is a good action/adventure film independent of the rest of the universe.
Age isn't an impediment on the film quality.

The Fellowship of the Ring is intended to be part of a trilogy, so doesn't work too well as a stand alone film. More background knowledge is required than ANH - bear in mind that ANH was the first film ever in the the Star Wars universe, so it's a bit more accessible in my opinion.

I'm going to pretend you didn't suggest The Phantom Menace... :smalltongue:

Yeah, this pretty much hands down.
The Lord of the Rings films work best as a trilogy, whereas A New Hope stands perfectly well on it's own two feet. Additionally, it's usually recommended as the ideal starting point in the Star-Wars franchise and despite you not being aversed to the Phantom Menace, you say yourself that you'd quite like to watch the Original Trilogy Again anyway.

Seems pretty open and shut. Watch that now, the other Starwars films later, (leaving the prequels for another day if she likes the original trilogy enough) and Lord of the Rings for when you have more time to devote to gorging on them.

(For bonus points, non-special-edition-Han-Shoots-First A New Hope, age be damned).

[Dienekes]

As far as movies go, I think LotR are all around better. If you ever have time and set a few days out for yourselves definitely I would say watch one a day or one a weekend.

But if you're just watching one movie, Brother Oni has the right of it. Star Wars is a single movie assuming no one has an idea what's going on at the beginning, and has a definitive conclusion. Fellowship of the Ring just sets you up for the next movie.

[INDYSTAR188]

My wife had never seen Star Wars either. She's since watched them all. I think she likes them as much as she does Indiana Jones and more than LotR. Fellowship of the Ring is an awesome book and a pretty awesome movie, but it's long and slow and leaves you at an awkward place in the story. I'd go Star Wars 4, 5, 6, then 1, 2, 3. I'd watch LotR closer to December when the Hobbit is scheduled to be released!

[Melayl]

I have to side with Brother Oni as well. Star Wars is just... it's Star Wars... you have to start with it. I just have a special place in my heart for Star Wars. It's one of the first movies I can remember seeing. The LOTR movies were ok. Visually stunning, but not as faithful to the books as I would have liked.

And don't get me started on the "prequel" movies...

[Ninjadeadbeard]

Yeah...go with Star Wars first. LotR is a deep time-suck. Although if you ever get around to watching LotR, I'd suggest the Extended Edition. Sure the Trilogy runtime is bumped to around 12 hours, but it is a VASTLY superior product. My family all watch the Extended Cut every year for New Years. It's our tradition now, and I personally think they're the greatest movie of all time.

[fergo]

Thanks guys :smallbiggrin:. Looks like it'll be Star Wars then.

[TheTick]

Star Wars, but use the Machete Order (http://www.nomachetejuggling.com/2011/11/11/the-star-wars-saga-suggested-viewing-order/).

[fergo]

Star Wars, but use the Machete Order (http://www.nomachetejuggling.com/2011/11/11/the-star-wars-saga-suggested-viewing-order/).

That's... actually a good idea.

I will think on it.

:smallbiggrin:

[Tengu_temp]

I will go against the popular vote here. Star Wars, at least the old trilogy, is way more influential and something everyone should at least see at some point, but LotR movies are better and more accessable to new audience. A New Hope really isn't that awesome if you saw it for the first time as an adult, not a kid.


Star Wars, but use the Machete Order (http://www.nomachetejuggling.com/2011/11/11/the-star-wars-saga-suggested-viewing-order/).

I consider such alternate orders to be experiments put together by fans as mental exercises that have no practical use. Because if you make someone who has never seen Star Wars watch the movies in this order? They will just feel hopelessly confused.

Just watch them in release order. And get your hands on the oldest version of the original trilogy you can, not the latest ridiculous edit. Even the special edition from 1997 will do.

[Ravens_cry]

I will go against the popular vote here. Star Wars, at least the old trilogy, is way more influential and something everyone should at least see at some point, but LotR movies are better and more accessable to new audience. A New Hope really isn't that awesome if you saw it for the first time as an adult, not a kid.
Ain't that the truth. Darth Vader sounded like the Dreads Lord Vader, if you know what I mean.
I agree with going for Lord of the Rings.

[factotum]

I think there's a missing piece of information here, which is this: has she actually *read* the Lord of the Rings? If she has, it doesn't matter much that Fellowship is setting up the rest of the trilogy, because she knows how it all goes and she can enjoy the film on its own merits (and it doesn't have any of the more egregious diversions from the book that fans so love to hate :smallsmile:). If she *hasn't* read the book, then start with Star Wars.

Under no circumstances attempt to inflict the awfulness that is the Phantom Menace upon her!

[fergo]

Ah, yeah, sorry for not mentioning that: she has not read Lord of the Rings. She also, for the record, does know that Darth Vader is Luke's dad, through pop-cultural osmosis.

What does everyone think of the Machete Order? (Tengu_temp excluded, of course :smalltongue:).

Just a few thoughts: While I personally love both series (uh, what's the plural to series?), I don't want to take things too seriously.

While dramatic build-up and all that is all very well and good, I think it's more important that the chosen films are entertaining in and of themselves, not to be appreciated as masterpieces of film or cultural landmarks (ironic, I know, considering why I want her to watch them). Something to watch on a lazy evening in while eating snacks.

And like I said, chances are we're only going to be watching one film before summer. I just realised I didn't make this clear (:smallredface:), but we won't have the chance to watch a film together for another four months or so, by which time the exact details of whatever we watch now will be half-forgotten.

All that included, I'm still thinking A New Hope. But I'd appreciate any more thoughts in support of one thing or another :smallbiggrin:.

[Dienekes]

On Machete order: Honestly, I think the inclusion of either of the prequels is unnecessary. The original trilogy has a nice self-contained story. I'm also fairly certain that having existed when the prequels were coming aout you'll recognize who Anakin Skywalker is.

Mind you, I don't think watching them in that order would be confusing at all. It can literally be explained with: And now, a flashback into how Anakin Skywalker became Darth Vader! It's not really all that befuddling.

But I still wouldn't do it because Attack of the Clones was possibly even worse than Phantom Menace. Phantom at least had Darth Maul and a single cool fight scene. Clones had the worst dialogue of the bunch (and let's be honest here, dialogue was never Star Wars forte to begin with) and the least interesting story. Maybe it's just my hatred of watching romances unfold, but ugh, Clones, just ugh. How can a movie about starting a revolutionary war between robots and clones be that dull?

[Axolotl]

Personally I don't understand why you'd let somebody watch Star Wars if they've never seen it before. It just seems to me to be setting them down a path of inevitable dissapointment and bitterness.

[Rallicus]

What does everyone think of the Machete Order? (Tengu_temp excluded, of course :smalltongue:).

Seems good on paper. The creator really does have a compelling argument for it, but honestly, I think it's more trouble than it's worth.

Going from the original trilogy to the prequels is probably your best bet. Doing the machete order would probably just confuse a first time watcher. Like, why are we taking a break from our established characters and having a "flashback" scene consisting of two movies?

And yes, The Phantom Menace isn't very good. But you shouldn't write it off for someone else just because you don't like it. I enjoyed it as a kid. Granted, watching it later, as a teenager and adult, I've come to believe it's a horrible stain on the Star Wars franchise... but you know what? That's my subjective opinion.

My friend, for instance, absolutely loves episode 1. So don't refrain from showing the movie to your girlfriend, just because you don't like it or just because people in this thread don't like it.

[fergo]

Personally I don't understand why you'd let somebody watch Star Wars if they've never seen it before. It just seems to me to be setting them down a path of inevitable dissapointment and bitterness.

But then no-one would ever watch it :smalltongue:.

[Axolotl]

But then no-one would ever watch it :smalltongue:.And wouldn't that be better overall? To let us all just move on from the franchise? I mean with all the recuts and edits and prequels and rereleases and all the cash-in games and novels and merchandiseing. Are the three good movies worth all the hate and the rage and the dissapointement they bring with them? It's not like there's a shortage of great films that aren't tied to such huge cancerous growths.

[Clertar]

Fellowship, without a doubt.

If you take away the mythical aura that the SW films have for people that have grown up with it, for a neutral first-time spectator it's just a science-fictiony western with a simple plot and mostly very average acting.

[Mauve Shirt]

A New Hope does work better as a standalone film. That said I really do like the LOTR movies better. They're delightful to quote and mock and get drunk to.

[Brother Oni]

It's not like there's a shortage of great films that aren't tied to such huge cancerous growths.

Ah, but how many of them are as iconic as Star Wars?

Neither of my children have watched a Star Wars film (they don't have the attention span), but they still know who Darth Vader is.

It's becoming increasingly harder to find films which don't have some sort of cash generating bolt-on added to it these days - even Scarface has a pair of games, made 20 years after the original film's release.

And let's not get started on Disney...

[Dr.Epic]

Well if she's more a sci-fi fan, go with A New Hope.

[Gnoman]

The nice thing about the pair is that they share very similar epic themes, despite the heavy differences. Watching Star Wars will prime the viewer to handle the longer, slower-paced LOTR trilogy.

[Mando Knight]

The Machete Order... it's brilliant! Yeah, it has its flaws, but especially if you're watching the 2007 Special Editions and their Hayden Christensen insert into RotJ, it doesn't break the surprises...

[Dr.Epic]

You could always show her the animated LotR films.:smallwink:

[Gnoman]

The Rankin-Bass The Hobbit was pretty good, and makes the casting of Orlando Bloom as a Wood-Elf make more sense.

[Ravens_cry]

You could always show her the animated LotR films.:smallwink:
While the Lord of the Rings animated film does have its strong points, Aragorn will always be John Hurt to me, a strange mix of rugged and noble, in the end it is a very flawed film.

[Ninjadeadbeard]

While the Lord of the Rings animated film does have its strong points, Aragorn will always be John Hurt to me, a strange mix of rugged and noble, in the end it is a very flawed film.

Honestly, I don't understand people's loyalty to the animated version. It's horrible. I like Bakshi's other stuff (well, Wizards), but something went horribly wrong when he made that...thing.

[Tvtyrant]

I like the idea of the Machete order. I am going to try it the next time we watch the series.

[Knaight]

Go with Star Wars. Yes, Lord of the Rings is better, but there's no point in damaging the experience of reading the books by watching the movies first.

[Lord Raziere]

Star Wars, but use the Machete Order (http://www.nomachetejuggling.com/2011/11/11/the-star-wars-saga-suggested-viewing-order/).

I now have compelling evidence, at least to myself, that people think waaaaay too much about these things.

[Remmirath]

Watch A New Hope, read The Lord of the Rings. :smallwink:

Leaving aside that I think it's always best to read a book before watching the movie adapted from it (and that I believe this particular book to be far superior to the movie adaptations), A New Hope is much more self-contained than The Fellowship of the Ring. If you were intending to watch all three at once, that really wouldn't matter, but despite being split up into three sections The Lord of the Rings is basically one book whereas the Star Wars movies are pretty seperate.

I would probably go for watching the original trilogy, and then perhaps picking up the prequels later, although that alternate order is at least interesting.

[Bulldog Psion]

Honestly, I don't understand people's loyalty to the animated version. It's horrible. I like Bakshi's other stuff (well, Wizards), but something went horribly wrong when he made that...thing.

Well, here's one Tolkien fan who has no loyalty to the animated version -- and who agrees that it's an abomination of the most horrific, vile kind. :smallbiggrin:

[Ravens_cry]

Honestly, I don't understand people's loyalty to the animated version. It's horrible. I like Bakshi's other stuff (well, Wizards), but something went horribly wrong when he made that...thing.
Nostalgia is certainly part of it, though the Return of the King animated version was, if anything, worse.
Case in point?
Singing orcs.
Badly animated singing orcs (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YdXQJS3Yv0Y).

[Hopeless]

So, my girlfriend has never seen Star Wars or Lord of the Rings. Not the greatest sin in the world, but still, she should at least give them a go :smalltongue:.

After our exams are over we're hopefully going to have time to watch at least one film (bearing in mind LotR films tend to be ridiculously long :smallwink:). So, it'll either be The Fellowship or A New Hope.

Trouble is, I can't decide which one to choose (she has no preferences).

She's a fan of the new Dr. Who series, so she may like the general sci-fi-ness of Star Wars. On the other hand, not to put a fine point on it, LotR is more modern, and on a superficial level may be more accessible.

The third option is to start with the Phantom Menace (note: I'm not dramatically opposed to the prequels; tPM was the first Star Wars film I saw in the cinema when I was young and I loved it. Haven't seen it for a few years though). It's modern, it's flashy, it's accessible, it has awesome pod racing. But it just... feels wrong :smallyuk:.

Also, I personally really want to see the original trilogy again; haven't seen them in aaaaaages.

So, yeah, any thoughts? Anyone else tried to get someone into either trilogy? :smallsmile:

If she really hasn't watched star wars then you could get away with starting with the phantom menace and help her work her way through all six movies...

The Lord of the Rings is great but it takes a while to get into the main story so if she does stick to as far as Rivendell then Legolas will help keep her attention through the rest of even the extended version:smallbiggrin: (seriously I had a poster of him and when I asked if anyone wanted it there was almost a riot over it!)...:smalleek:

So she liked doctor who... which one is her doctor?

Pre-christopher eccleston then you can safely get away with the phantom menace if its david tennant then stick with the original trilogy.... of course you could always introduce her to the animated clone wars but i recommend the Samurai Jack version as it takes a while for Lucas's 3d version to get into its stride!:smallsmile:

[Sith_Happens]

I now have compelling evidence, at least to myself, that people think waaaaay too much about these things.

http://i1.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/007/666/_57c8a1a431a592af806925e57258202f.png

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

That Machete order actually makes a lot of sense. Makes me want to rewatch the movies in that order...

[Tengu_temp]

Watch A New Hope, read The Lord of the Rings. :smallwink:


Personally, I think the LotR movies are better than the books. The books are still okay, not to mention extremely influential, but the movies are just more gripping, filled with more tense and cool moments.

Except RotK. Best book of the three, worst movie of the three.

[Terraoblivion]

I'd recommend Fellowship of the Ring too. Like several people have said, Star Wars is under heavy nostalgia goggles for most people and probably not as good for someone watching it for the first time as an adult. Of course, I found the series pretty boring watching it as a kid too and when trying to watch it in my late teens I fell asleep from boredom, so I'm not the most impartial observer, but still.

I don't really care much for the machete order, the original trilogy and the prequels are each meant to work as their own trilogies. Trying to stick two thirds of one into the middle of the other just confuses things. I also don't quite get the idea that Attack of the Clones was better than Phantom Menace, it barely had a plot, the use of CGI created some weird, uncomfortable environments and it had the worst romantic writing I've ever seen and my sister forced me to watch Twilight. So, yeah, as far as I'm concerned Attack of the Clones is the worst part of a series I already consider staggeringly mediocre at best.

As for what is more influential...I'm inclined to say Star Wars in North America and LotR in Europe. People really underestimate how common it was to read LotR as a kid here, especially for boys, and that it was regardless of how much or how little the kid in question read or questions of social class. Hell, the queen of Denmark has declared herself a fan and illustrated one release of the book and my grandmother who is over 80 owns a copy. I get the impression that reading it is even more widespread on the British Isles. It's tangential to the original, but kinda relevant I think.

[Muz]

The Rankin-Bass The Hobbit was pretty good, and makes the casting of Orlando Bloom as a Wood-Elf make more sense.

Oh no it was NOT. :smallbiggrin: I just watched it a few days ago. So very disturbing, both to see all the cuts they had to make to get it down to only around 80(?) minutes, and the design of Smaug.

Darned dragon looked like a dog. *shudders*

[MLai]

Unless she's a classic literature buff, do not encourage her to read LotR the novels. I read LotR, the Hobbit, Silmarillion, and Lost Tales I. But, I'm unbiased enough to say it's 90% tedium, along with 5% of additional long poems/songs, and 5% of awesome. Might as well go read Game of Thrones and do away with the 90% tedium bit.

Watch the movies. Don't read the books. Unless you're into those sort of books.

[Hopeless]

Unless she's a classic literature buff, do not encourage her to read LotR the novels. I read LotR, the Hobbit, Silmarillion, and Lost Tales I. But, I'm unbiased enough to say it's 90% tedium, along with 5% of additional long poems/songs, and 5% of awesome. Might as well go read Game of Thrones and do away with the 90% tedium bit.

Watch the movies. Don't read the books. Unless you're into those sort of books.

If she's really interested in the Lord of the Rings introduce her to dungeons and dragons... any edition although Pathfinder is a bit heavy to carry around and you can get Traveller in little book formats now...

Oh and don't bother with the first D&D movie, it rivals Bakshi's effort on the LOTR with its grasp of beholders...
The second one is fine and involves a female barbarian and a thief who deserves his own series!

[Oltharius]

As a side note, if you're going to show her Star Wars, definitely start with A New Hope. Starting from the prequels ruins the dramatic reveal of, "Luke, I am your father." That said, honestly, I wouldn't go for the entirety of the original trilogy first. Otherwise, Palpatine's death is rather meaningless as he never really did anything. He just sat there being Emperor. So, my preferred order is thus: A New Hope, Empire Strikes Back, the first half of Return of the Jedi (stopping just after Yoda's death, when Luke and ghost Obi-Wan have some one-on-one time to discuss the past.), The Prequel Trilogy in order, the rest of Return. Yes, it might be somewhat inconvenient with that whole "stopping a movie half-way through" thing, but it's, dramatically, the best order.

As for which of the two to show her, I'd go LotR. Star Wars is fine, but I found LotR to be much more enjoyable.

[Mutant Sheep]

Honestly, I don't understand people's loyalty to the animated version. It's horrible. I like Bakshi's other stuff (well, Wizards), but something went horribly wrong when he made that...thing.
I loved that rotoscoped piece of genius. Aragorn trips over his own scabbard for Bakshi's sake!:smallbiggrin:

Oh no it was NOT. :smallbiggrin: I just watched it a few days ago. So very disturbing, both to see all the cuts they had to make to get it down to only around 80(?) minutes, and the design of Smaug.

Darned dragon looked like a dog. *shudders*
I thought he looked more catlike, personally. The voice was pretty sweet though.:smallcool: The dwarve's battlecry is genius (it RHYMES!). Also, EXTINGUISH MEEEE!:smallfurious:

[Lord Raziere]

If she's really interested in the Lord of the Rings introduce her to dungeons and dragons... any edition although Pathfinder is a bit heavy to carry around and you can get Traveller in little book formats now...


Actually I wouldn't recommend doing so at all.

LotR is actually very much the anti-DnD. Everything about it pretty much takes apart everything DnD assumes before it even began.

[Othesemo]

Lord of the Rings. Never once while watching it did I wonder to myself what the writer was smoking.

[nihil8r]

y u no just watch star wars trilogy AND lotr trilogy? :smallconfused:

(don't make her watch prequels, of course)

[nihil8r]

y u no just watch star wars trilogy AND lotr trilogy? :smallconfused:

(don't make her watch prequels, of course)

[Brother Oni]

y u no just watch star wars trilogy AND lotr trilogy? :smallconfused:

Because the OP stated he and his girlfriend only have time to watch one film.

[nihil8r]

Because the OP stated he and his girlfriend only have time to watch one film.

but why? mayan apocalypse isn't until august, plenty of time to see both :smallconfused:

[Brother Oni]

but why? mayan apocalypse isn't until august, plenty of time to see both :smallconfused:

Making an assumption, the OP and his girlfriend are at university and after their exams, they'll have a limited amount of time together before heading to their respective homes when uni breaks up.

Presumably they met at uni, thus come from different parts of the country, and can't see each other easily due to commitments/funds/time.

[fergo]

Thanks guys :smallbiggrin:. Lots of good thoughts. If nothing else, it makes me certain I want to watch both of them over summer even if she doesn't :smallwink:.