Programmed Amnesia, how to make it work?

[Dairuga]

Okay, so by a coincidence; upon trawling this forum and the numerous threads, I came over a very interesting remark by a user whose name I sadly forget. The remark was that one could use Programmed Amnesia against a Pit Lord, and Boom, eternal servant.

Now, the obvious question is "How?"

Of course, the most obvious choice is to reprogram his memories long-term, and rebuild his persona... But how exactly would you people propose one could go about this? It has been something that I have pondered upon quite a bit on, as of late, and I am interested in hearing the playground's oppinions.

Could you for example implant memories that he entered a faustian contract with you, and then, during some freakish accident, his end of the contract got disintegrated? That -could- leave said Pit Demon into believing he is bound by contract to serve you until you die, but would have the problematic coincidence that this servant might actively try to get you killed on several occations.

You could perhaps implant memories that you subdued him, that your level is far, far into the epics, and that you have loaded him up with contigent spells strong enough to kill him off if he tries to use his Greater Teleport ability without your consent? Perhaps add the memory that he tried it once, got reduced to death, but a contigencied "Delay Death" forced him to stay alive, and still under your service, and you healed him right up just to show how strong you were. Granted, one could ask how much a demon fear death, but perhaps the thread of immense pain and a never-coming death upon trying to escape could keep someone in check.

Any other suggestions that might work, playground?

[hamishspence]

Or that he had a change of heart though your kind treatment of him when you captured him in the past- and that you redeemed him- complete with alignment change.

Basically, the Succubus Paladin's backstory- only in this case it's false.

[Dairuga]

Or that he had a change of heart though your kind treatment of him when you captured him in the past- and that you redeemed him- complete with alignment change.

Basically, the Succubus Paladin's backstory- only in this case it's false.

Sounds wonderful. Except, the Succubus Paladin's Backstory included love. Not sure how keen my character would be on a personal Pit Fiend wanting to hump him.

But Kind treatment, huh... You'd think the overlords of Baator would be immune to Stockholm Syndrome and such. Especially after reading trough the Fiendish Codex and seen what those guys go trough to get to their positions. o.o Dear lord, they have it hard. But still.. Filling him with weeks upon weeks of him gradually accepting that Good is good and that sticking with my character is the best good there is, might be plausible.

[Musco]

Well, he COULD have "fallen in love" with your mother, and you might actually be his "half-demon child", although the demons didn't approve the relationship because she was a good-aligned Cleric, so they tortured and killed her in front of him to send a message so it wouldn't happen again with other demons, during the middle of which he entered a frenzy, saved you from the grasp of death and ran away with you, forever inclined to serve the forces of good so no one's child would have to grow up without a mother, and no one would ever lose a loved one like that ever again. Good enough?

[Dairuga]

Well, he COULD have "fallen in love" with your mother, and you might actually be his "half-demon child", although the demons didn't approve the relationship because she was a good-aligned Cleric, so they tortured and killed her in front of him to send a message so it wouldn't happen again with other demons, during the middle of which he entered a frenzy, saved you from the grasp of death and ran away with you, forever inclined to serve the forces of good so no one's child would have to grow up without a mother, and no one would ever lose a loved one like that ever again. Good enough?

That -could- work, if the character actually did look like a half-demon; had a demon bloodline, etc, etc. But, it would be rather limited, and not quite working for those that either do not look like they have any relation to the father at all, or so on and so forth. Plus, this way; you'd have more of a Father and protective figure, than an eternal and subersvient servant.

But great suggestion nevertheless.

[Telonius]

Another option for an implanted memory: he's done something that got Asmodeus mad at him. Asmo ordered him to never speak (or write, or convey in any form) any details of his punishment to anyone, even Asmo himself, no matter what. The punishment is to faithfully serve (Programmed Amnesia caster), fulfilling all requests and demands he makes of him, using the spirit of the request that is most beneficial to the caster, until such time as the caster dies of (non-magically-accelerated) old age.

EDIT: I was reading that as "Pit Fiend" - actually a kind of Devil (lawful), not a Demon (chaotic). Not sure how you'd constrain a Demon to be your servant.

[Hazzardevil]

EDIT: I was reading that as "Pit Fiend" - actually a kind of Devil (lawful), not a Demon (chaotic). Not sure how you'd constrain a Demon to be your servant.

Simple! make it believe it is a devil that has been ordered by Asmodeus to no longer view anyone but you as its master.

[Shadowknight12]

Every devil and demon, no matter how powerful, was once a living person. Now, 'canon' fluff says that memories get erased as the soul becomes a fiend and rises through the ranks, but if your DM is willing to go with it, nothing says an "echo" may not be still residing somewhere buried in the pit fiend's mind.

So delete EVERYTHING but that echo. You now have a pit fiend who believes they're a person. Throw in a Bluff check as to why they are a pit fiend (Wish, Miracle, witch's curse, magical mishap, etc.) and voilà.

[Righteous Doggy]

So delete EVERYTHING but that echo. You now have a pit fiend who believes they're a person. Throw in a Bluff check as to why they are a pit fiend (Wish, Miracle, witch's curse, magical mishap, etc.) and voilà.

He's just a person! a very ugly person... with multiple arms and horns. but a person none the less!(dc 100 bluff?)

[Larkas]

Every devil and demon, no matter how powerful, was once a living person. Now, 'canon' fluff says that memories get erased as the soul becomes a fiend and rises through the ranks, but if your DM is willing to go with it, nothing says an "echo" may not be still residing somewhere buried in the pit fiend's mind.

So delete EVERYTHING but that echo. You now have a pit fiend who believes they're a person. Throw in a Bluff check as to why they are a pit fiend (Wish, Miracle, witch's curse, magical mishap, etc.) and voilà.

That, or you could simply plant the echo in his head and make him believe he is working towards discovering those memories and that you are, somehow, the key.

[Randomguy]

Change his alignment to LG (or LN) and implant memories of one of your ancestors having sacrificed himself to save the Balor's life. In an attempt to repay his debt, the Balor had sworn himself to serve your family for 1000 years, and he is currently serving you, with 900 years of service to your family line left.

To justify the alignment change, add in memories of him being a Solar (or some other celestial) cursed into the form of a Balor by an epic spell years ago, but he made his Will save and retained his own alignment.

[Musco]

That -could- work, if the character actually did look like a half-demon; had a demon bloodline, etc, etc. But, it would be rather limited, and not quite working for those that either do not look like they have any relation to the father at all, or so on and so forth. Plus, this way; you'd have more of a Father and protective figure, than an eternal and subersvient servant.

But great suggestion nevertheless.

Easy. You take after your mother, the one he loved so deeply, so that's why you do not appear Infernal. Also, that all happened when you were really young, and so you could grow up without being scarred for life, HE devised a plot to pose as a subservient servant for you because of an old prophecy (you wouldn't even know he's from Hell, just a powerful being, at least until you actually MET someone else from hell), so he needs to act as a servant (it's, in his eyes, his "punishment" for letting it happen in the first place, that and not being able to actually be a father to you), but, in fact, he gets to keep an eye on you and, if need be, protect you with his own life.

There. Need anything else?

I mean, you want a loophole based on WORDING and a good lie!? I graduated in Law, so I'm in love with this thread! Anything you need, just shout!

[NichG]

It amuses me to go the Inception route. Give him the personality and memories of a paladin, who was transformed into a Pit Fiend by dark magic and had his personality rewritten with a Programmed Amnesia spell. You rescued him, breaking the amnesia spell with a Dispel/Disjunction/whatever, but could do nothing for his physical form. Upon that point, you cast your own spell upon him to protect him from this ever happening again (a Programmed Amnesia set to trigger in the case of him ever being programmed by another). He swore to serve you, to end this infernal plot to wipe the minds of the good and turn them evil.

This gives him motive to help you, to be loyal, and to avoid dispels/disjunctions. You can even make this more convincing by putting an actual second Programmed Amnesia on with a lower caster level, that simply covers up a slightly less nice persona, so that if he's ever hit by a weenie dispel, he'll find himself slipping and go to you to reinforce it.

[Shadowknight12]

That, or you could simply plant the echo in his head and make him believe he is working towards discovering those memories and that you are, somehow, the key.

Or that.


It amuses me to go the Inception route. Give him the personality and memories of a paladin, who was transformed into a Pit Fiend by dark magic and had his personality rewritten with a Programmed Amnesia spell. You rescued him, breaking the amnesia spell with a Dispel/Disjunction/whatever, but could do nothing for his physical form. Upon that point, you cast your own spell upon him to protect him from this ever happening again (a Programmed Amnesia set to trigger in the case of him ever being programmed by another). He swore to serve you, to end this infernal plot to wipe the minds of the good and turn them evil.

This gives him motive to help you, to be loyal, and to avoid dispels/disjunctions. You can even make this more convincing by putting an actual second Programmed Amnesia on with a lower caster level, that simply covers up a slightly less nice persona, so that if he's ever hit by a weenie dispel, he'll find himself slipping and go to you to reinforce it.

Indeed, you can turn anything that's not immune to mind-affecting effects into your devoted ally with that spell.

I prefer Mindrape, myself, because even if you revert the alignment change, memory erasure and any gross personality modifications (and you need Wish or Miracle to do so), it cannot reverse subtle programming, so you can very much go the Inception route and there's nothing anyone can do (short of another Mindrape) to reverse it.

[Alleran]

Indeed, you can turn anything that's not immune to mind-affecting effects into your devoted ally with that spell.
Or polymorph them into something that isn't immune to mind-affecting effects and turn them into your devoted ally via memory alteration before reverting them to their natural form (which should still keep the programming, since their mental state hasn't changed, only their ability to be affected by mind-affecting effects - like taking down a mind blank, making some alterations, and then putting it back up).

[Shadowknight12]

Or polymorph them into something that isn't immune to mind-affecting effects and turn them into your devoted ally via memory alteration before reverting them to their natural form (which should still keep the programming, since their mental state hasn't changed, only their ability to be affected by mind-affecting effects - like taking down a mind blank, making some alterations, and then putting it back up).

The Shapechange subtype is the only hurdle, as is being incorporeal or gaseous.

But that's what, 20% of the monster manual?

[Solaris]

That, or you could simply plant the echo in his head and make him believe he is working towards discovering those memories and that you are, somehow, the key.

I rather like the subtlety of this one, but I'd much rather go with implanting the notion that the Pit Fiend simply likes you and wants to be your friend than making him think you're the key to discovering those lost memories.

[Larkas]

I rather like the subtlety of this one, but I'd much rather go with implanting the notion that the Pit Fiend simply likes you and wants to be your friend than making him think you're the key to discovering those lost memories.

Hmmmm, that's safer too, a demon could suddenly convince itself that the key to discovering its past passes through your dismemberment :smallbiggrin: