How do you handle player errors?

[Gadora]

A couple weeks back, a player in my group had their character cast Tenser's floating disk and, since they've got a flying character, they used it to surreptitiously ferry the rest of the party up the cliff, rather than having us take the road up, and then, after a bit of sniping got the us noticed by the orcs in the fortress, to ferry party members up to the wall. Much fun seemed to be had by all while this was going on, though it did throw the DM for a loop, as, instead of working through the fortress one room at a time, we manged to pull all the orcs and trolls out into the open.

Anyhow, it wasn't until the end of the session, as they were ferrying the archer over to snipe at a winter wolf, that they noticed that the disk is supposed to wink out of existence if you try to take it more than three feat above the ground; certainly not enough height to take party members to the top of a wall, much less up a cliff.

The DM told the player that they were getting sort of a warning light in that said the spell was going to end early, and that it'd be a good idea to get the archer to the ground. They were also "charged" a second level one spell in order to have pulled it off. It was later retconned to have been a scroll (or possibly the last charge on a wand) of greater floating disk, rather than a casting of Tenser's floating disk.

Now my question is this: how would you have handled this situation, once the mistake was brought to light?

[Alleran]

It's a DM error. I'd tell them as much, and say that they wouldn't be able to do it again.

[nedz]

Its not really a DMing error, more of a collaborative one.

Unless the player did it deliberately of course, in which case its munchkanery: I doubt that this is the case.

I wouldn't worry about it too much, the rules are fairly complex and this sort of thing happens occasionally. Getting flight with a level 1 spell is a bit of a red light however.

You could re-run the entire encounter, but that should only be done if its plot centric or it caused a TPK.

[dsmiles]

Meh. Mistakes happen. That one just wouldn't happen again.

Of course, I don't bother to fix errors as a DM, unless it caused something bad to happen to a party member. If "Spell X" gets read as "Y Effect," it remains as "Y Effect" happened, even if it was wrong. It just gets corrected to "X Effect" the next time it's cast.

[Seatbelt]

Thats how I handle it. It works that way this session, it wont work that way after that.

[Shpadoinkle]

As a DM, I usually say "Okay guys, I misunderstood/misread/misremembered something, so I'll let this instance go but from now on it's going to work like this."

[Demonic_Spoon]

It would seem easy to build a contraption to allow flight with the disk however.
1. Take a piece of wood/whatever.
2. Put it beneath the disk
3. Tie the wood to the disk with some pieces of rope so that it never hangs more than 3 feet below the disk.
4. Flying disk! :D
5. ???
6. Profit!

[nedz]

You could also use it as a jack.

Place a beam on the disk
Raise it 3 feet.
Place props under the beam
Lower the disk
Place props between the disk and the beam
Raise it 3 feet
... Repeat ...

Its not quick, but it should work

[Downysole]

DMs don't make mistakes.

Just kidding. When I DM and something seems too good to be true, I ask the player to check on his ability or spell to make sure he has it right. The situation you described should have made your DM think "too good to be true" but it didn't. Maybe inexperience, or whatever, but that's beside the point.

In my game, the players are responsible for their own rules. If something seems overbalanced, the other players themselves will sometimes question the player in the wrong, and if it gets through them, the DM questions it. Sometimes we find out that the whole character is really too good to be true (Tome of Battle anyone?) and that can result in a re-roll.

If the mistake caused the whole encounter to be broken, we will sometimes scrap the whole night and do it over the next session. If it didn't matter all that much, and it was just for xp anyway, then it makes sense just to let it slide. Maybe the DM can apply a % to the encounter's XP if he thinks you got it too easily.

[Telonius]

For something like that? Something like this (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0353.html).

[VGLordR2]

Semi-related link. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0034.html)

[bokodasu]

"You had the weirdest dream..."

Kidding. Really I just use the "there was an odd blip in the magic field that let you do that; from now on it works as actually written" method, unless it really messed up the game, which we handle on a case-by-case basis. Mostly that works out to be some combination of retconning and re-running - nobody wants to fight the whole battle AGAIN, but letting them re-roll a save or something is usually fine.

[Malimar]

Something like that happened to me once, when one of my players was using the fly spell, was knocked unconscious so the spell ended, and he died from falling damage when he hit the ground.

When I checked the description for fly later, it turned out a.) he had flown twice as high as he should have been able to in one round and b.) fly lets you down gently if it ends while you're still in midair.

My policy is the same as most posters so far: "The original effects of the error stand, but in the future it will work the way it's supposed to."

So the character's death still happened; they raised him so he only lost a level and 5000gp. Which is still possibly a harsh lesson, but that player will never again use a spell without knowing how it works.

I play by the same rules; there were several examples where I forgot about or misunderstood some rule, and it wound up benefiting the PCs. There's at least one fight that the PCs probably would have lost if I'd remembered the rules properly, though I can't remember the details.

[Shadowknight12]

As a DM, I usually say "Okay guys, I misunderstood/misread/misremembered something, so I'll let this instance go but from now on it's going to work like this."

Pretty much this.

Also, when it comes to actual player errors, I just laugh it off and make sure the correction is light-hearted. For example, I have a player who is amazing in almost every way, but he is TERRIBLE at choosing the right skill to roll. He rolls Spot instead of Sense Motive, Search instead of Spot, Knowledge(Local) instead of Knowledge(History) (or Knowledge(Nobility) or Gather Information), and so on.

So what I do is to go Me: "LOL! You rolled Search! Search is when you're physically trying to find something, like a trap or secret door. You should've rolled Spot instead!" Him: "ARGH! I swear you change them up on purpose when I'm not looking!" Both: "Ahahaha!"

[Gadora]

As the player who made the error, I'm glad that things seem to have been handled well. I really do need to keep working on the balance between giving things a thorough reading and not slowing the game though. >_<

Yeah, that was me who screwed up there. *waves*
There's a part of me that really wants greater floating disk (found that in the Spell Compendium after things wrapped up that night) now, but since that winds up being a level higher than fly, turning my air mephling into a battle chariot for the ranger is awfully impractical. :smallfrown:

[nedz]

So what I do is to go Me: "LOL! You rolled Search! Search is when you're physically trying to find something, like a trap or secret door. You should've rolled Spot instead!" Him: "ARGH! I swear you change them up on purpose when I'm not looking!" Both: "Ahahaha!"

He's got a point with Search and Spot though.
You're looking for a hidden door: roll Search.
You're looking for a hidden rogue: roll Spot.

It seems that you find living things with Spot and inanimate things with Search ?

[Curmudgeon]

They didn't get up the cliff via Tenser's Floating Disk; they got up there via DM negligence. But, unlike spells, you can't rely on the latter to work as desired. :smallwink:

Seriously, I take the same approach as other posters. We don't rewind the clock and start everything over; we attribute the current state to the DM being asleep at the table, but press onward ─ and hope the DM's more alert subsequently.

[Ernir]

I think about 70% the houserules I have seen in play are actually just player/DM errors that the group decided to keep, even after they found out the ruling was not in accordance with the rules text.

(Note: Percentage made up on the spot.)

[Daftendirekt]

It seems that you find living things with Spot and inanimate things with Search ?

No.

Search is active. Spot is passive.

[Curmudgeon]

No.

Search is active. Spot is passive.
No, Spot is passive or active.
Action: Varies. Every time you have a chance to spot something in a reactive manner you can make a Spot check without using an action. Trying to spot something you failed to see previously is a move action.

[nedz]

Spot (Wis)
Check

The Spot skill is used primarily to detect characters or creatures who are hiding. Typically, your Spot check is opposed by the Hide check of the creature trying not to be seen. Sometimes a creature isn’t intentionally hiding but is still difficult to see, so a successful Spot check is necessary to notice it.

A Spot check result higher than 20 generally lets you become aware of an invisible creature near you, though you can’t actually see it.

Spot is also used to detect someone in disguise, and to read lips when you can’t hear or understand what someone is saying.

Creatures


Search (Int)
Check

You generally must be within 10 feet of the object or surface to be searched. The table below gives DCs for typical tasks involving the Search skill.

object or surface

[animewatcha]

Going by the dungeoncrasher floor-wall thing. Any chance that the floating disk can treat that wall 'as the ground' with the players making strength or con checks to hold on as it goes up the wall?

[Anxe]

Similar things have happened to me in the past. I just say, "the spell worked this way that time, but from now on we will be using this more accurate ruling." Seems to me that's what your DM did.

[KillianHawkeye]

Something like that happened to me once, when one of my players was using the fly spell, was knocked unconscious so the spell ended, and he died from falling damage when he hit the ground.

When I checked the description for fly later, it turned out a.) he had flown twice as high as he should have been able to in one round and b.) fly lets you down gently if it ends while you're still in midair.

My policy is the same as most posters so far: "The original effects of the error stand, but in the future it will work the way it's supposed to."

So the character's death still happened; they raised him so he only lost a level and 5000gp. Which is still possibly a harsh lesson, but that player will never again use a spell without knowing how it works.

I play by the same rules; there were several examples where I forgot about or misunderstood some rule, and it wound up benefiting the PCs. There's at least one fight that the PCs probably would have lost if I'd remembered the rules properly, though I can't remember the details.

You also forgot c) fly doesn't end just because you got knocked unconscious.

[Shadowknight12]

He's got a point with Search and Spot though.
You're looking for a hidden door: roll Search.
You're looking for a hidden rogue: roll Spot.

It seems that you find living things with Spot and inanimate things with Search ?

It has nothing to do with animate or inanimate. It's about distance, like the difference between the words "this" and "that." "This" refers to something closer to the speaker, "that" refers to something that's not close to the speaker. Spanish splits up "that" into a word for "far from the speaker, but near the listener" and "far from the listener and the speaker." If you're trying to find something that's within arm's length (a secret compartment, a hidden door, a trap in the same square as you are), you use Search. If it's not something within your arms' reach, you use Spot.

One case where it can get blurry is searching a room. If you can actually get inside the room and walk around every square, touching and moving things around, you use Search. If you want to visually examine a room from a static point to find something in particular (like my player wanted to do), you use Spot.

[Verte]

I would say that it was an error or misunderstanding, and though it worked that one time, the spell can't be used that way again. In game, chalk it up to the setting's god of magic being in a good mood or something :smalltongue:. Anyway, this doesn't seem like a case where anything has to be redone.

[Malimar]

You also forgot c) fly doesn't end just because you got knocked unconscious.

!!!

I just scoured the rules, and you're completely right. Like rage ending when the barbarian goes unconscious, spells ending when their caster goes unconscious is just a house rule that every group I've ever played with has used, so I never had any call to realize it wasn't supported by any actual rules.

Everything I thought I knew is a lie!

[Slipperychicken]

So what I do is to go Me: "LOL! You rolled Search! Search is when you're physically trying to find something, like a trap or secret door. You should've rolled Spot instead!" Him: "ARGH! I swear you change them up on purpose when I'm not looking!" Both: "Ahahaha!"

A PC searched a bar for attractive women, and rolled a Search check. The PC peeked under all the tables and chairs, but alas! There were no women to be found.

The PC got a -4 on social skills rolled in the bar, everyone had a good laugh, and moved on.