Monsters and equipment

[Featherman]

I asked this question...


What are the rules for equipment associated with race? Do monster characters have to pay for the equipment they get as part of their of their race or do they even get it? Can they sell them and what happens if they lose/get it sundered? Also do you get the equipment under Special Attacks (such as Pincer Staff) when you Shapechange into a monster? What about Ability Focus ((enchanted) Pincer Staff) or the like?

... in the quick Q&A thread but it was perhaps too broad for that.

So what are the rules concerning weapons associated with your race? There seem to be two types of this:

1). Some creatures are described as carrying special equipment in the "Combat" description but other than that they don't have any special ability related to those weapons. Solars, for example, are described as carrying +5 dancing greatswords and +2 composite longbows (made for str 20) that shoot slaying arrows. It might be worth noting that neither Solars or Ghaeles have those weapons as "Treasure".

2). Some creatures such as Balors and Kuo-toas have a Special Attack for special equipment. Balors, for example, have a +1 vorpal sword as a Su special attack and +1 flaming whip as an Ex special attack while Kuo-toas have a Pincer Staff as an Ex special attack (the MM Pincer Staff probably has a typo since kuo-toas in other books have an Ex Pincer Staff).

[Gwendol]

I generally count any carried equipment towards the treasure of that encounter (at least anything masterwork or better).

Just because the entry says they wield certain weapons doesn't mean they have to, same goes for feats. It's the first thing I do really when planning an encounter; review feats and gear.

[TypoNinja]

As a PC, you are an exception to the MM entry for whatever critter you are playing as. The MM entry represents a typical member of that species. As a PC, you are pretty much the opposite of typical.

As a PC, you get Wealth By Level* as appropriate for your starting level. So if you are playing for example an Ogre, you have 4HD and a +2 LA, making you a 6th level character with 13,000gp to purchase starting equipment with.

*page 135 DMG.



For monster loot, some stat blocks differentiate treasure from combat gear, though to a PC, it's generally the same thing. That +1flaming sword is still loot, weather the thing they killed for it was wielding it or not.



And I had to go double check, but yea, the balor's gets 'Su: every Balor carries a +1 vorpal longsword.'

That's the oddest damn thing ever. I'd be tempted to call it a misprint if it wasn't also in the SRD. I completely don't understand the point of specifying equipment as a Su

[Aeryr]

Maybe the Balor don't carry their vorpal weapon into AMF.

[NavyBlue]

I think the Balor's sword is an extension of itself- it is born with it and dies with it. That's how I've always houseruled it anyway.

[Featherman]

@TypoNinja

I am aware of the WBL but they don't fully explain the question of monsters with special equipment.

If I shapechange into a Balor do I get the sword and the whip? According to the Shapechange spell you should get all special attacks and both of those are special attacks. But assuming you get them raises a lot of questions. What happens if you lose the weapons? I don't know any normal cases where you could "lose" special attacks and I don't know if there are any rules on how to handle it. Can you sell the weapons? They are pretty valuable and they aren't directly created by a spell either. Do they disappear when the spell ends if they aren't in your possession (as they aren't created directly by the spell) or can you even give them away? Also shapechange lets you change forms on the fly and you could change again into Balor form for more weapons?

Could a natural Balor take something like Ability Focus (Vorpal Sword)? If his Fiend of Possession minion enchants it with something like Stunning Surge would the DC be increased? If he walks into an Antimagic Field would the sword wink out but the whip remain enchanted (as the whip ability is Ex)? It might be worth noting that Balor has a +1 flaming whip and a +1 vorpal sword as "Treasure" which suggests that either all Balors have 2 swords and 2 whips or that they persist even after the Balor perishes (if he doesn't destroy them with Death Throes, of course). Balors aren't the only creature with a special attack for equipment - Kuo-toas have a special attack for Pincer Staff but that isn't listed as "Treasure" for them.


All MM angels and Ghaeles are clearly described as carrying specific weapons but they don't have a special attack for them. None have these weapons as "Treasure" or under "Possessions". These don't seem as troublesome as weapons as special attacks but still they aren't clearly explained either.

[prufock]

1). Some creatures are described as carrying special equipment in the "Combat" description but other than that they don't have any special ability related to those weapons. Solars, for example, are described as carrying +5 dancing greatswords and +2 composite longbows (made for str 20) that shoot slaying arrows. It might be worth noting that neither Solars or Ghaeles have those weapons as "Treasure".

2). Some creatures such as Balors and Kuo-toas have a Special Attack for special equipment. Balors, for example, have a +1 vorpal sword as a Su special attack and +1 flaming whip as an Ex special attack while Kuo-toas have a Pincer Staff as an Ex special attack (the MM Pincer Staff probably has a typo since kuo-toas in other books have an Ex Pincer Staff).

Equipment listed that is not an Ex, Su, or Sp ability should be included in the treasure for that encounter, and thus subtracted from the treasure value.

Ex, Su, and Sp are abilities granted by creature type or class levels. Thus they don't function for anyone other than that creature, and in most cases probably can't be removed from the creature. A balor's vorpal sword, for instance, while still a +1 vorpal longsword, ceases to look like a flame or bolt of lightning. The +1 flaming whip itself is not a special attack. ENTANGLE is the special attack usable with the whip.

If you shapechange into a balor, then, you don't get the whip. If you have a +1 flaming whip, you can use it to entangle. You DO get the vorpal sword, just not shaped like flame or lightning.

Ability Focus (Vorpal Sword) would have no effect as vorpal swords don't allow a saving throw. A spell cast on the sword would not make it a valid target for Ability Focus because that spell is not a special attack of the balor. In AMF the sword becomes just a sword, the whip becomes just a whip and can't be used to entangle.

These are the conclusions I can draw from reading the entries; they may not be right but they make sense given the rules as they are.

[lunar2]

any equipment carried by a monster should count towards their treasure, unless specified otherwise. however, a pc playing as that race wouldn't automatically get that equipment, it would come out of their wbl, unless specified otherwise.

a good example of an exception is the trumpet archon. every trumpet archon, pc or not, will have a trumpet associated with it. this trumpet isn't treasure, because it is a useless hunk of metal for anyone besides its owner. a pc trumpet archon would have this trumpet in addition to the wbl of a 20th level character.