(PF) Arcane Duelist Bard... Weapon Choices

[Duncan_Ruadrik]

SO I have three build ideas, I'm not sure which would be best. all Half Elf, btw.

1.) uses shortsword (or dagger even???) and Shield.

Pros: can dump STR, grab Piranha Strike (power attack for light weapons) and an agile weapon by level 5 with arcane bond. Can also conceal such a weapon, so I don't suck a 20+caster level concentration check to cast without it in hand. Higher AC.

Cons: low damage until level 5.

2.) Scimitar with Dervish Dance.

Pros: low level access to DEX to damage, thus not spending money on the Agile property at level 5.

Cons: waste of a free hand, to get Power Attack I can't dump STR, lower AC.

3.) Elven Curve Blade

Pros: gets alot out of Power Attack, can get Agile at level 5, highest damage potential.

Cons: can't dump STR if i want Power Attack, lower AC.

Since i have to wait til level 10 to be proficient with Medium Armor, I am not willing to go with a STR build. I definitely want to use Finesse for this build.

So which is the best option? Thanks!

[eggs]

Usually a longspear is the best weapon for Arcane Duelists, both due to the general advantages of reach weapons (not provoking AoOs by approaching large monsters, triggering AoOs when non-reach weapon users approach) and the archetypes' bonus feats' reliance on threatened areas.

It sounds like you've made up your mind to go with one of the first options, though. Of those, I'd recommend the second.

The sword and shield option has two problems:
-Without weapon cords, casting and using sword and board are incompatible. With weapon cords, the character will have a hard time juggling its performance and arcane strike.
-The damage is very low. Especially until you can get a decent shield with 0 ACP. If the goal is to make a Bard who doesn't suck in sword fights, this approach won't help much at all.

[deuxhero]

But he's a Half Elf and alreddy willing to use the free weapon proficiency/skill focus on a weapon (not like there is all that good a use for it beyond Eldritch Heritage anyways), Longspear is pretty eh given he has strictly better options.

Actually, Scorpion Whip is an option he didn't mention. It gives him reach, lets him fight Sword and Board (which is still awful for anything but stacking enchantments on, but eh), works with Piranha Strike.

Can't you take a free action to move your whip/sword to your shield hand (which can hold it as long as it isn't a heavy sheild), cast with your free hand than take another free action to move it to your free hand?

[grarrrg]

Actually, Scorpion Whip is an option he didn't mention. It gives him reach, lets him fight Sword and Board (which is still awful for anything but stacking enchantments on, but eh), works with Piranha Strike.

Whips do not "threaten" though. Granted he can take a pile of feats to be able to make AoO's with a Whip, but as-is, a Whip is only "Half-Reach".

[deuxhero]

Whips do not, Scorpion Whips, lacking a clause that says so (except that you may use it "as a whip") and being listed as a reach weapon do.

And it turns out the lack of a free hand isn't an issue past level 5, as Arcane Bond lets you deal with that.

[grarrrg]

Whips do not, Scorpion Whips, lacking a clause that says so (except that you may use it "as a whip") and being listed as a reach weapon do.

The most up to date rules on the PFSRD beg to differ.

Whip, Scorpion
Benefit: It deals lethal damage, even to creatures with armor bonuses. If you are proficient with whips, you can use a scorpion whip as a whip.

Weapon Feature(s): performance (plus disarm, reach, and trip if you are proficient with whip.)

First off, this is among the WORST wording on a weapon I've seen... So I'll attempt to go with the best interpretation, leaning towards RAW.
"As-is" a Scorpion Whip deals Lethal damage, and has the Performance ability. It does NOT have Reach.
IF you have BOTH 'Whip' AND 'Whip, Scorpion' proficiencies, then you can use it "as" a Whip, which means Disarm/Reach/Trip/No-AoO's (presumably, it still deals lethal damage).

Again, WORST. WORDING. EVER!

[deuxhero]

Can being the key word. You don't have to. Like you said, worst wording ever.

A bard is proficient with a whip, so reach isn't an issue.

[Duncan_Ruadrik]

all of this nonsense about needed to switch the weapon to a different hand to cast blah blah blah...

Arcane Duelist can USE HIS WEAPON FOR SOMATIC COMPONENTS.

It is a very basic feature of the class, hence I am able to use a weapon and shield, or even TWF.

[grarrrg]

all of this nonsense about needed to switch the weapon to a different hand to cast blah blah blah...

Arcane Duelist can USE HIS WEAPON FOR SOMATIC COMPONENTS.

It is a very basic feature of the class, hence I am able to use a weapon and shield, or even TWF.

Quiet you, we're having an argument here! :smalltongue:

[Duncan_Ruadrik]

I can see you are having an argument. And yet... it lacks bearing on this thread. :smallwink:

[deuxhero]

all of this nonsense about needed to switch the weapon to a different hand to cast blah blah blah...

Arcane Duelist can USE HIS WEAPON FOR SOMATIC COMPONENTS.

It is a very basic feature of the class, hence I am able to use a weapon and shield, or even TWF.

Which I mentioned in my second post.

[Duncan_Ruadrik]

Which I mentioned in my second post.

which was edited (47 mins. ago) after my post (1 hour, 35 mins. ago) , so no, it actually didn't state that at the time of my response.