(PF) Ranger (Guide) Combat Style

[Duncan_Ruadrik]

Had an idea for a kind of an ex- border patrol Ranger kind of character. The only snag is what kind of combat style is best optimized for the Guide Archetype (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/ranger/archetypes/paizo---ranger-archetypes/guide), but is also sufficiently border patrol-ish.

I was planning on going with the Weapon and Shield Style, but not sure how optimized that really is.

Also considering Arcane Archer, maybe. In that case, would Sorcerer or Wizard be better in your opinion? Or is straight ranger just better?

Any thoughts? thanks!

[deuxhero]

And here I thought this was a Handbook...

Arcane Archer is really the Zen Archer Monk/Empyreal Sorcerer's toy, being able to do it SADly.

For fighting style, I'd recommend Mounted Combat, but you trade out your AC with Guide, so that's a no-go.

Shields are generally unoptimized for anything but sticking enchantments on a buckler and eating the -1 to attack penalty (Casters and Mithiril Buckler/Light Shields are the exception).

[Ravens_cry]

In the right campaign, one that focuses on a few core types of baddies, Ranger Archery can be damn useful, I've seen it done.
A feat that helps tremendously with on of the weaknesses of Archery, DR, is Clustered Shots (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/clustered-shots-combat). Instead of 10 or 20 taken off each shot, you get it taken off at the end.

[Duncan_Ruadrik]

I would generally agree, but the ranger can get Shield Master (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/shield-master-combat---final) a full 5 levels before any other class.

plus, with the Ranger's Focus from the Guide archetype, you can actually put out some decent damage while TWF, and shield master eliminates the penalties from the shield hand.

thematically it gives a kind of soldier-y vibe to an otherwise nature loving hippie archetype.

a flat +6 to hit/damage 4 times a day at level 12 doesn't feel too bad... plus Bashing Finish with a high crit, keen weapon can be nice at late levels.

[deuxhero]

Even with Shield Master, you don't get the vastly high damage output of two handed weapons.

[Duncan_Ruadrik]

Even with Shield Master, you don't get the vastly high damage output of two handed weapons.

too true, stupid F#@$%&! 3.X systems. the last Ranger I played was a switch hitter though, just trying to mix it up. *sigh*

[Cieyrin]

Even with Shield Master, you don't get the vastly high damage output of two handed weapons.

The gap isn't quite as big as it was in 3.5, with the restriction of Power Attack, the lack of multipliers and how much more difficult it is to manage a move + full attack, which typically comes up at level 10-11 now, though Rough Rider Fighters can manage it at 7th, though they'd probably want to go Cavalier/Horse Master to have a mount that isn't gonna die, which puts you back at 11th.

[deuxhero]

You can take a Sohei dip and get Mounted Skirmisher at level 1, though that is only for mounted archers.

[Cieyrin]

You can take a Sohei dip and get Mounted Skirmisher at level 1, though that is only for mounted archers.

Other way around, mounted archers have always been able to full attack while moving on a mount, Mounted Skirmisher lets mounted melee to full attack while moving on a mount.

[deuxhero]

Why did I think it worked like that?

Still, it's full attack on move and awesome for it.

[Benly]

The gap isn't quite as big as it was in 3.5, with the restriction of Power Attack, the lack of multipliers and how much more difficult it is to manage a move + full attack, which typically comes up at level 10-11 now, though Rough Rider Fighters can manage it at 7th, though they'd probably want to go Cavalier/Horse Master to have a mount that isn't gonna die, which puts you back at 11th.

The lack of move + full attack is in favor of two-handed weapons over TWF, though.

That said, a dual-shielding Shield Master will be pretty close to a two-hander on full-attack damage. You can use a heavy shield for the "main hand" without accuracy penalty if I'm reading Shield Master correctly, so you get x1 PA and Str on the main hand and half on the off-hand, leading to the same total value. It's twice as many attacks but at the same accuracy; there are more chances to miss, but each miss has less effect on your DPR, so that aspect cancels out. The two-shield style does fall behind with regard to damage die size and crit properties, but it gets twice as much out of other static bonuses (favored enemy, weapon training, bardic buffs, etc.) so it might catch up.

The really big down side, of course, is that you're spending about half a dozen feats, splitting your stat bonuses between Str and Dex to keep up 2WF unless you're a 2WF ranger, and shelling out for two magic shields at once just to keep your damage equal with the guy who went "greatsword, Power Attack, done". If you don't mind that it's not so bad. :smallsmile:

[Cieyrin]

TWFing has always had the magic weapon investment problem, so it comes down to them sucking it up in comparison to single-weapon wielders only having to enchant their one weapon. Not that this doesn't stop people from pursuing it by any means, they just have to accept that and hopefully know what they're getting into before then so they aren't disappointed later.