La +15!

[Melnir]

I'm building a gestalt charachter and I can have LA +15 for free! Max 3 races/templates with LA>+0, max LA per race/template +5. I can use as many +0 LA templates as I want, no alignement restrictions.
I can use anything except for web things!

Suggestions?

[JeminiZero]

Depends on what you want to build.

I'm partial to stacking the Evolved Undead Template repeatedly for +X bonus to Strength, Natural Armor and Charisma, and then sticking that on top of some Cha dependent class.

[danzibr]

I'm not sure how all the stuff stacks (and by that I mean some may be mutually exclusive), but Dark, Mineral Warrior, Saint, Lolth-touched (surely this doesn't go with Saint, for example) and Savage are thrown around quite a bit as good templates. Half-Dragon, while not totally optimal, is cool for a LA of +3. Similarly for Half-Celestial and Half-Fiend. Checking this (http://dnd.freeminded.org/tables/DnD3.5Index-Templates.pdf) should be useful. Oh right, Half-Minotaur too.

The problem with creatures with high LA's is they usually have quite a few racial HD as well.

As for your final choice of templates, it probably depends what you want to do. Do you want super high Str? Then just stack tons of templates that give + to Str. It might be worth taking a template just because it offers a lot of Str even when it's generally considered worse than another template in such a case.

[Melnir]

I'm playing

Druid 9/planar shepard 10/cleric 1//Factotum 8/beholder mage 10/warblade 2

so I can cast like 100 spells/round.

The problem is that I don't have enough beholder mage slots so I was thinking on two options:

1-Boosting intelligence (captain obvious)
2-Illumian and boosting strength (with the right sigil, of course)

I can't go cancer mage + Str illness because infinite tricks are banned so I can't even go tainted scholar.

I think boosting strength is easier (colossal size via will, templates). What do you think?

[RMS Oceanic]

I would hazard that it's hard to go wrong with the Paragon Template (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/paragonCreature.htm). :smallsmile:

Whoops, didn't see the +5 limit.

I don't think you could go wrong with the Winged Template (+2). Flight and a Dex boost helps everyone.

[SowZ]

Take one of the undead templates that doesn't have RHD. Lich or Vampire, (I'd suggest Vampire,) whichever you prefer, (there is a good lich variant.) When you have so many LA floating around, something to turn all your HD to d12s is a good plan. Half-Fiend/Celestial wouldn't be a bad plan, (Half-Fiend works a bit better for this,) makes you an outsider which certainly has perks and gives you bonus skill points and a SR. Then something neat that will slap on a lot of immunities... Maybe a Fetch? There! That uses all fifteen and gives you 8+Skill Points, d12 HD, +7 AC, +8 Str, +10 Dex, +6 Int, +6 Cha, +2 Wis. Spell Resistance of HD+10, DR of 15/Magic, Resist Acid/Cold 20, Resist Fire/Electric 10, Natural weapons including a slam attack that are considered magic and drain levels and can drain Con to increase your HP, Darkness 3/day, Can summon animals and create spawn, Darkvision, Immune to Poison and Energy Drain and All Ability Damage/Drain and Ghosts, Basically you have evasion but from negative energy spells, Wings with perfect flight speed, gaseous form whenever, spider climb always on, +8 to a lot of skills, (including spot and listen,) +12 Move Silent, Dominate Person as a standard action, Polymorph into some things, Free feats Alertness, Combat Reflexes, Dodge, Improved Initiative, &
Lightning Reflexes, +2 saves vs. Necromancy, Fear effects, Paralysis, or Disease. Make people shaken by looking at them, Animals will never attack you, Ghost Form, Some Telekinesis, Detect Undead, 50% chance to ignore precision damage, (critical hits/sneak attacks.) And a smite attack. I think this is pretty decent.

Wait no vampire

[Qwertystop]

Use Tauric cheese to get as much as you can out of that LA.

Also, multiheaded is just generally cool.

[Morph Bark]

Three templates of up to LA+5? Vampire is out then. I'd also suggest not taking any low-LA ones because you'll be missing out on great stuff. If you can get Dry Lich without going Walker in the Waste though, go for that. Winged is great too, despite only being LA+2, but make sure to get at least 17 Dex in your natural form.

Why do you have a single level of Cleric at the end?

[Seerow]

How are racial HD being handled?

[Kazyan]

The Cleric level might be for DMM.

Anyway, you're a Planar Shepherd//Beholder Mage. Why do you get even more power for free?

Take a peek at Dvati twins, from a Dragon magazine, I think. I'm not sure how they work (can't be bothered to look for them), but you might get to cast 200 spells per round.

[Melnir]

Use Tauric cheese to get as much as you can out of that LA.

Also, multiheaded is just generally cool.

What's Tauric cheese?

Cleric is for DMM and a couple free feats (improved initiative for example) since winning initiative will be the most important thing. Just forgetting: I will have buffs on when getting into the arena, so illumian for bonus spells might be the best solution.

Racial HD are part of level progression, so no racial HD.

[JeminiZero]

How are you qualifying for Beholder Mage? It affects how much you can shift your progression for LA.

[Qwertystop]

What's Tauric cheese?

Apparently, it's that Tauric makes you a minotaur-version of "the base creature". The Tauric template is a flat +3 LA. The base creature could be a Feindish Half-Dragon Phrenic (insert other templates here) Warpony. You get a lot of extra stuff for no extra LA.

I might have it slighty wrong, but thats it more-or-less.

[Melnir]

How are you qualifying for Beholder Mage? It affects how much you can shift your progression for LA.

PAO :smallbiggrin:

[Kazyan]

Symbiont (Symbotic?) has a glitch similar to Tauric. Make the host creature your Tauric(w/ Paragon Lion) Illumian and your guest a Greenbound Paragon Petal, or whatever. You now have exemplary mental and physical stats. The downside is that you get some RHD, but you can level drain until there's only one of those. For the last template, I think Troll-Blooded could work; it gives you regeneration. Fire up some immunity to nonlethal damage, acid, and fire.

I mean, as long as we're in a cheese duel with Beholder Mage//Planar Shepherds, you know.

[Larkas]

Apparently, it's that Tauric makes you a minotaur-version of "the base creature". The Tauric template is a flat +3 LA. The base creature could be a Feindish Half-Dragon Phrenic (insert other templates here) Warpony. You get a lot of extra stuff for no extra LA.

I might have it slighty wrong, but thats it more-or-less.

Centaur, actually, but other than that yeah, pretty much that.

[JeminiZero]

PAO :smallbiggrin:

OK, here's the thing, if you use PAO to qualify for Beholder Mage, you must remain in Beholder form to use your Beholder Mage abilities (since you are effectively shooting spells from your eye stalks).

Being forced to remain in Beholder form has other implications. For one, it pretty much sets your physical stats. This means that even if you had templates granting high strength, the strength bonus is lost during PAO, and you get stuck with the Beholder's strength of 10. That also means template stacking for score bonus + illumian alternate spell granting stats will not work.

Additionally, PAO explicitly overwrites your int score, to the beholder's 17 (but you keep your Wis and Cha scores). So having a high int score in your base form (from templates), won't help for spells (but it *should* still help for skill points per level). Although by the same token, you could have an int score of 3 in your base form, and suddenly, when you become a Beholder, you're a genius.

[Morph Bark]

PAO :smallbiggrin:

That will make all physical stuff you get from templates and race disappear though, and likely a lot of other abilities as well. Take that to mind.

[Airanath]

Druid lvls and Planar shepard, he might be using aberrant wild shape to become a beholder. Wild shape lets him keep his mental stats as opposed to PaO. I would go with templates that give extras for your casting stats, as wildshaping is gonna fix your physical. Since this is already cheesy enough, you could drop the druid lvls and get the divine minion(pun pun haunts us) template to wild shape as druid 11, and go beholder mage from lvl 2.

[Melnir]

Ok, you're all right, my fault. In fact it's a really cheesy build so aberrant wild shape it's ok.
I could still go with taurine and get n,000 templates with Int bonus so problem solved! Right?

[Kazyan]

Tauric only cheeses up your physical stats, actually. Symbiotic is the one you want for Int.

[Calanon]

Saint, Lolth-touched (surely this doesn't go with Saint, for example)

Anti-Saint is pretty simply to stat out:


• Must be of Evil alignment
• Must have at least 4 Vile feats (2 of which must be a willing deformity)
• Must never have lost the benefit of Vile feats
• Must at all times behave in a way the DM considers to be Vile
• Must be at least 7th level
• Must make an extraordinary act of selfishness and greed

These are optional but not completely necessary for the DM to apply

• Willingly surrender your soul to an Evil Outsider
• Devote yourself to an Evil God
• Regularly desecrate an Alter devoted to a Good aligned God (Once ever year is fine)


Creating a Anti-Saint
“Anti-Saint” is an acquired template that can be added to any creature of Evil alignment that has at least 3 intelligence and is not an elemental (referred to hereafter as the “base creature”).

Size and Type: The creature’s type changes to “outsider.” The Anti-Saint has the native subtype. Size is unchanged.

Armor Class: An Anti-saint, like a Saint gains an insight bonus to AC however instead of its Wisdom Bonus it gains one equal to its Charisma bonus.

Special Attacks: An Anti-saint retains all the character’s special attacks and gains those listed below.

Vile Power (Su): The save DCs of any and all of the Anti-saint’s special attacks, including spells as well as spell-like, supernatural, and extraordinary abilities, increase by +2.

Corrupting Touch(Su): The Anti-saint’s entire being is suffused with Vile power, which likewise flows into any weapon the Anti-saint wields. An Anti-saint’s melee attacks with any weapon (or unarmed) deal an additional 1d6 points of Vile damage against Good creatures, and 1d8 points against Deathless and Good outsiders. Any Good creature that strikes an Anti-saint with a natural weapon takes Vile damage as if hit by the Anti-saint’s attack.

Impure Immunity (Ex): The Anti-Saint is a being so suffused with vile power that she no longer needs to pay the corruption cost for casting Corrupt spells. In addition to this, if the Anti-Saint possess a list of spells known, She may add Corrupt spells to her list.

Spell-Like Abilities: At will—command, resistance, Inflict Minor Wounds, and Bane. An Anti-saint’s caster level is equal to its Hit Die total. The save DCs are Charisma-based.
Special Qualities: An Anti-Saint retains all the character’s special qualities and gains those listed below, as well as the outsider type.

Damage Reduction (Ex): Anti-Saints gain damage reduction according to their Hit Dice (including character level).

{table=head]HD|Damage Reduction

1-3|
-||
4-7|
5/Magic||
8-11|
5/Good||
12+|
10/Good||[/table]
If the base creature already has damage reduction, use the better
value.

Fast Healing (Ex): Each round, an Anti-saint heals damage equal to half of its Hit Dice (including character levels, to a maximum of 10 points healed). If the base creature already has fast healing, use the better value.

Immunities (Ex): An Anti-saint is immune to acid, Fire, electricity, petrification attacks, and poisons.

Keen Vision (Ex): Anti-Saints have low-light vision and 60-foot darkvision.

Swarm of Flies (Su): As a free action, an Anti-saint can surround herself with a cloud of Flies having a radius of 20 feet. This effect impedes the ability to channel positive energy and cure spells, Summons a swarm of flies as the Insect plague spell, and prevents natural healing (This also effects the Anti-Saint and temporarily neutralizes her fast healing ability) The Insect plague is casted at the Anti-Saint's Hit Die +2

Resistances (Ex): Anti-Saints have resistance to cold 10 and gain a +1 resistance bonus to all saving throws

Tongues (Su): An Anti-saint can speak with any creature that has a language, as though using a tongues spell cast by a 14th-level cleric. This ability is always active.

Abilities: Modify the base creature as follows: Con +1, Wis +1, Cha +6. If the base creature is an Undead, it adds its Charisma Modifier to its HP instead of its Constitution.

Challenge Rating: Same as the base creature +2.
Level Adjustment: Same as the base creature +2.

As you can see I got lazy later on but more or less its pretty much the Saint Template with some personal additions to it... :smallamused:

[Particle_Man]

Pixie is not bad for +4 LA, stat boosts to all the caster stats + flying + improved invisibility, DR, SR, no racial HD.

[Dr.Orpheus]

If you made your actual race a beholder you could take the multi-headed template to get the 40 eye rays 4 central eyes and 4 bites all for 5 LA (normally 3, but +1 for eyes and +1 for bite), the only problem is the racial HD.

[Airanath]

If you made your actual race a beholder you could take the multi-headed template to get the 40 eye rays 4 central eyes and 4 bites all for 5 LA (normally 3, but +1 for eyes and +1 for bite), the only problem is the racial HD.

Sir you just turned a beholder into a real aberration. Here is a cookie.
Back on topic, you forgot to dwemer keeper/incantatrix your beholder mage gestalt druid. Because all you need is to stack metamagic now.
Edit: You don't need aberrant if you are a Xoriat planar sheppard. Cant remember if that is also the cheese plane that makes time faster for you.

[Agent 451]

Tauric only cheeses up your physical stats, actually. Symbiotic is the one you want for Int.

That's one thing about Tauric that kind of sucks for this. If you apply umpteen million templates to the base humanoid ONLY your INT, WIS and CHA scores are used in the final creature. Tauric automatically uses the STR, DEX, and CON of the animal/beast/vermin that you combine with. And since you'd want RHD as low as possible, these stats would probably be pretty weak.

Edit: Hmm, apparently the LA is base humanoid +3, not base creature.

[Dr.Orpheus]

Sir you just turned a beholder into a real aberration. Here is a cookie.
Back on topic, you forgot to dwemer keeper/incantatrix your beholder mage gestalt druid. Because all you need is to stack metamagic now.
Edit: You don't need aberrant if you are a Xoriat planar sheppard. Cant remember if that is also the cheese plane that makes time faster for you.

There are more than one plane that makes time move faster for you, and I think you mean slower because then you get more done in the available time. A great idea would be to create your own demi-plane with genesis then attune to that plane, you make the rules you can get a hundred years every second if you want, and you can make imagination driven laws of physics like the plane of dreams.

[JeminiZero]

Ok, you're all right, my fault. In fact it's a really cheesy build so aberrant wild shape it's ok. I could still go with taurine and get n,000 templates with Int bonus so problem solved! Right?


Uh... provided your DM lets you qualify for Beholder Mage with aberrant wildshape. Its a bit iffy, since wildshape was revised to function like Alternate form, which does NOT change your creature type. And you need to be a True Beholder to qualify for Beholder Mage.

[Rubik]

What about dvati twin (+1 LA) ghost (LA +5) with some Evolved Undead (stackable and +1 each)? Possess the hell out of two monsters and double your action economy for non-magic stuff (and it's almost impossible for you to die).

[edit] Also you could possess two beholders and get double the eye-rays.

[Melnir]

I asked the DM and I can go DWK. So I thought beholder mage 1/DWK 9 (last level to druid to get metamagic cost reduction), so I can get PAO as Su. I was thinking: PAO in a beholder, beholder mage, PAO as Su. Then template to become humanoid, then again symbiont, so I get boost to Int in this way, correct? I m still a true beholder (I loose aberration type but I take it again via symbiont), correct?

If it's correct what template can I get to become a humanoid (or animal or plant or vermin)?

Wood elemental creature!

So I might go human---> beholder---> wood elemental---> symbiontic---> spellwarped

[Airanath]

There are more than one plane that makes time move faster for you, and I think you mean slower because then you get more done in the available time. A great idea would be to create your own demi-plane with genesis then attune to that plane, you make the rules you can get a hundred years every second if you want, and you can make imagination driven laws of physics like the plane of dreams.
I did mean faster, planar shepard can manifest a zone of their chosen plane around them, plane with faster time traits means you get more shots for every of their actions. Not that he needs it with beholder mage... but hey, 40 actions for every combat round, can't go wrong with that, even if he decides to be a blaster.

[D@rK-SePHiRoTH-]

Guys, this is for a gestalt tournament on another board.
The rules are:
you can have up to 3 templates with Level Adjustment higher than 0, or 2 templates and 1 playable race with LA.
Each of the three can be up to LA+5

So you can't stack up thousands of templates.
It's just: do your best with three templates, or 2 templates and a playable race

[Dr.Orpheus]

I did mean faster, planar shepard can manifest a zone of their chosen plane around them, plane with faster time traits means you get more shots for every of their actions. Not that he needs it with beholder mage... but hey, 40 actions for every combat round, can't go wrong with that, even if he decides to be a blaster.

Yes there is the faster time planar trait, but I was saying if time moved any faster for the Planar Shepard they would have less time to act. Instead the Planar Shepard just seems fast to others around them.

Also if we had a tauric beholder would the beholder be the base humanoid or the base quadruped.

[VGLordR2]

Also if we had a tauric beholder would the beholder be the base humanoid or the base quadruped.

The top half needs to be a small or medium sized Humanoid, and the bottom half needs to be a medium or large animal, beast, or vermin.

I wonder if there is some way to get a medium-sized swarm, and make that the bottom half of a Tauric creature. Things would start getting weird.

[Dr.Orpheus]

Well size large swarms can be animals or vermin so nothing should be wrong with that. Imagine a tiefling with a lower half being a swarm of feral fiendish beetles.

[Rubik]

Well size large swarms can be animals or vermin so nothing should be wrong with that. Imagine a tiefling with a lower half being a swarm of feral fiendish beetles.Needs more hellwasp swarms.

[Dr.Orpheus]

Oh and each wasp in the swarm is a lich with a phylactery on a different plane of the abyss.

[Doorhandle]

I'm building a gestalt charachter and I can have LA +15 for free! Max 3 races/templates with LA>+0, max LA per race/template +5. I can use as many +0 LA templates as I want, no alignement restrictions.
I can use anything except for web things!

Suggestions?

:smalleek:

Dear god, I hope your D.M knows what he's doing. :smallamused:

It's a shame you're not doing pathfinder, because then I would suggest a imperial-foo animial-lord worm-that-walks. :smallbiggrin: