Any way to play as a swarm?

[McToomin]

A recent thread (can't remember which one now) gave me inspiration for a character, but unfortunately, I don't know if it could actually be done in 3.P. The basic idea is a Good (probably Chaotic) druid (or magic-user of any other sort) who can turn into a swarm of butterflies. The basic idea would be that he could turn into butterflies and still cast spells, and fly around, even though obviously a butterfly swarm wouldn't be much of a melee fighter.

Is there any way to do this, or even get close along with a bit of fluff? The two things I were able to find were Master of Flies (http://kahdnd.pbworks.com/w/page/5588930/Master%20of%20Flies) and the Dark Discorporation warlock invocation.

Any other way to do this? Neither of them have the fluff I'm looking for (nothing to do with insects really does that I found does since vermin are traditionally associated with evil, all other vermin-related classes I found were evil (and no others gave the ability to turn into a swarm)). I remember seeing a topic a few weeks ago about turning into a swarm, but that was for a murder of crows, and I don't think anything came of it.

So yeah, does anyone have any other options? I could always refluff warlock to be nature-based of course (my group plays Pathfinder, so I could always get the relevant skills without it being so much of a problem), but warlock couldn't get it until 16th level at the earliest. Master of flies, the other option, doesn't look so great (doesn't advance animal companion or spellcasting at all, and I'd basically have to take more levels in the class than I'd care to in order to be able to do it more than a pitiful number of times per day.

[VGLordR2]

I'm pretty sure that you can play as an Awakened animal for +1 LA and hit dice equal to two more than the base creature's normal hit dice.

[hushblade]

Swarm shifter necropolitan? Has no listed LA, but I'd probably call it a +1.

DM might just handwave the "must be undead" requirement.

[Ernir]

The Brood Keeper's Heart soulmeld (Dragon Magazine 350) gives you the Swarm subtype with the Heart bind. That is on a rather nature-y chassis (Totemist).

Don't remember if it's easy to open the heart chakra on a caster build.

[Necroticplague]

I think a level 11th druid with city-shape acf (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20070228a) could pull this off. Once he has access to tiny creatures, swarms made of tiny creatures become viable, refluff as necessary.Or just take normal wildshape, wait until you get smaller sizes, then become a swarm of crows (which is an animal).

[hushblade]

I think a smarm is illegal for any wildshape since swarm is a template applied to tiny animals or smaller animals.

[Answerer]

An Afflicted Were-Murder-of-Crows had 4 Animal RHD and LA +2. The bonuses for these things aren't so great, but you are a swarm (of crows), and it is RAW-legal.


I think a smarm is illegal for any wildshape since swarm is a template applied to tiny animals or smaller animals.
Swarm is a subtype, not a template. There may be templates that give the subtype, but that's not the same thing.

[Flickerdart]

There's an alternate Vampire ability that lets them turn into Bat or Rat swarms instead of the default shapes.

[dsmiles]

There is a Chaotic Good-ish aberration in Lords of Madness that is a swarm. IIRC, it has a massive LA, though.

[Urpriest]

I'm pretty sure that you can play as an Awakened animal for +1 LA and hit dice equal to two more than the base creature's normal hit dice.

Is that true in Pathfinder? Genuinely curious. It certainly has no precedent whatsoever in 3.5.

[grarrrg]

who can turn into a swarm of butterflies. The basic idea would be that he could turn into butterflies and still cast spells, and fly around, even though obviously a butterfly swarm wouldn't be much of a melee fighter.

Pathfinder.
Spherewalker (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/other-paizo/s-z/spherewalker).
[/thread]

[Hylas]

Pathfinder.
Spherewalker (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/other-paizo/s-z/spherewalker).
[/thread]

grarrrg once again saves the day.

[dropdadgbe]

First thing that came to mind was the Worm that Walks from the Epic Handbook (also in the SRD). The statted example is CR 26, but the actual template only adds +3 to CR.

Spherewalker is probably better though.

[hushblade]

If swarms are legal druid forms, would mobs be as well? That would be a pretty interesting thing for a MoMF to pull
"I shift into a stampede of rhinos"

[McToomin]

I was looking at prestige classes yesterday, and the spherewalker is so oddly specific that has to be where I got the idea.

The problem is that it only lasts for, at max, 5 minutes per day, which is kind of pitiful. This doesn't have to be an ability I could cast at-will, but 5 minutes isn't much at all. Is there any way to extend the duration of that ability. It isn't a spell-like or anything, it just says "you gain the ability," so I don't think any feats are going to be able to help. Anyone have any ideas?

Maybe I'll refluff the Master of Flies, or just homebrew up my own.

[Person_Man]

The Brood Keeper's Heart soulmeld (Dragon Magazine 350) gives you the Swarm subtype with the Heart bind. That is on a rather nature-y chassis (Totemist).

Don't remember if it's easy to open the heart chakra on a caster build.

The only ways to open a Heart chakra pre-Epic for a Totemist soulmeld are with Totemist 1/Something 4/Ironsoul Forgemaster 10 (the quickest route), Totemist 17, or Totemist 1/Something 6/Necrocarnate 11. But it can't be opened with magic or with a magical PrC.

[Answerer]

The Brood Keeper's Heart soulmeld (Dragon Magazine 350) gives you the Swarm subtype with the Heart bind. That is on a rather nature-y chassis (Totemist).

Don't remember if it's easy to open the heart chakra on a caster build.
Wait, there are Soulmelds outside of MoI and DM?

[Demonic_Spoon]

I was looking at prestige classes yesterday, and the spherewalker is so oddly specific that has to be where I got the idea.

The problem is that it only lasts for, at max, 5 minutes per day, which is kind of pitiful. This doesn't have to be an ability I could cast at-will, but 5 minutes isn't much at all. Is there any way to extend the duration of that ability. It isn't a spell-like or anything, it just says "you gain the ability," so I don't think any feats are going to be able to help. Anyone have any ideas?

Maybe I'll refluff the Master of Flies, or just homebrew up my own.

It's a supernatural ability as seen from the (Su) in brackets, the only thing I can think of that would help you is the Extend Supernatural Ability from ToM, though you could homebrew a Persist Supernatural Ability?

[Person_Man]

Wait, there are Soulmelds outside of MoI and DM?

Yes. There are psionic soulmelds online at the WotC website, and there are a few in Dragon Magic #350, and I've seen them floating around the homebrew forum as well. Although Magic of Incarnum and Dragon Magic are the only sources for WotC "published" material (some people consider online material less real then material in a book, and Dragon Magazine was published by Paizo).

[Ashtagon]

I'd cheerfully allow a homebrew wildshape feat that lets you turn into any vermin-based swarm. Size restriction would be based on the total size of the swarm for this, and the type of individual creature would be limited to those that have no effective independent thought at all (ie. vermin) only).

[Urpriest]

If swarms are legal druid forms, would mobs be as well? That would be a pretty interesting thing for a MoMF to pull
"I shift into a stampede of rhinos"

Unfortunately, all mobs are templated creatures.

[McToomin]

Sooo... Anyone know a way to persist a supernatural ability?

Changed the title to reflect the current question. If this were possible, maybe by turning it into a spell or even spell-like ability, spherewalker would be the obvious winner.

[nedz]

There is the Warlock Dark Invocation: Dark Discorporation. Its quite high level, but lasts all day.

[Rubik]

Sooo... Anyone know a way to persist a supernatural ability?

Changed the title to reflect the current question. If this were possible, maybe by turning it into a spell or even spell-like ability, spherewalker would be the obvious winner.The only official way I know to do something like this (aside from Extend Supernatural Ability from ToM) is a repeating trap of Temporal Reiteration (the item is from the DMG and the power is from CPsi). It makes the last round not count for the durations of everything on you. The cost is 5 (power level) x 9 (min. manifester level) x 500 = 22,500 gp.

However, that will affect everything on you, good and bad, and it has to repeat every round (and can be dispelled like any magic item). Toss it on your armor and you'll be fine (but you should have it crafted in a way that lets you turn it off if need be, in case you get blinded or something).

[Necroticplague]

The only official way I know to do something like this (aside from Extend Supernatural Ability from ToM) is a repeating trap of Temporal Reiteration (the item is from the DMG and the power is from CPsi). It makes the last round not count for the durations of everything on you. The cost is 5 (power level) x 9 (min. manifester level) x 500 = 22,500 gp.

However, that will affect everything on you, good and bad, and it has to repeat every round (and can be dispelled like any magic item). Toss it on your armor and you'll be fine (but you should have it crafted in a way that lets you turn it off if need be, in case you get blinded or something).

If you have a lot of cash to blow or your DM objects to traps with buffs on them, you could do something similar with a spell clock (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/cw/20070312a). Costs 5 times as much, but it can have multiple buffs on it, in addition to the temporal reiteration (might as well add whatever you want, stop when you feel you've had enough cheese).Just set it to go off every round on whosoever's possession it is in, you can stop it with a command word.

[McToomin]

I came up with my own solution, a druid archetype (swarm shaman), seen here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=13264983#post13264983). PEACH if you've got time/interest!