Invisible Blade Build

[White_Drake]

Hello again, I'm working on an Invisible Blade to act as a support fighter type, and here's what I've got so far:

Race: Magic-Blooded Tiefling

Rogue 4
Mimic ACF
Martial Rogue ACF
Penetrating Strike ACF
Ninja 6
Invisible Blade 5
Swashbuckler 3
Arcane Stunt ACF
Mountebank 2

Those aren't really in order, but you get the picture. I was thinking for feats I'd probably go with
Two-Weapon Fighting
Weapon Focus Kukri
Improved Critical Kukri
Daring Outlaw (with all the cheese that implies with a martial rogue :smallbiggrin:)
Deceitful

I know I don't have Point Blank Shot and the other ranged prerequisite for Invisible Blade, but I'm hoping to get that waved by the DM, because those make absolutely no sense as prereqs for a class that specializes in melee combat.

At any rate, I was wondering if there were any huge glaring flaws, and what some good feats might be.

[Flickerdart]

Why Ninja? You seem to be an Intelligence based build (Swash for damage, Invis Blade for AC) but Ninjas do not benefit from a high Intelligence score at all, and would prefer Wisdom. If you are after a source of Sneak Attack to qualify for Daring Outlaw, I would recommend Psychic Rogue instead.

[ojayaba]

i agree, why ninja?
also, whats wrong with the ranged side of the invisible blade?
makes for a very cool class in my mind. above and beyond that means they are not exclusive to melee. means that you can throw are something that's running away or at something before it gets to you or any number of things that could work to your advantage.

[Gavinfoxx]

So... with the kukri stuff, you are going to be crit fishing? Craven + Telling Blow?

[White_Drake]

i agree, why ninja?
also, whats wrong with the ranged side of the invisible blade?
makes for a very cool class in my mind. above and beyond that means they are not exclusive to melee. means that you can throw are something that's running away or at something before it gets to you or any number of things that could work to your advantage.

The trouble is that the whole class is centered around feinting in combat, and you can't make a ranged feint.

I'd posted (or so I thought--stupid server errors :smallfurious:) earlier that I just don't know anything about psionics, my group has never really used them. If there's an obvious inferiority here, I'd be happy to switch; if I'm reading this correctly, essentially I would lose Poison Use, Great Leap, Acrobatics, and Ki Dodge (none of which are essential) , in exchange for Spell Reflection, a ton of spellish abilities and being less MAD. Seems good to me, if I've screwed something up there, please tell me. I've looked back at some stuff, and realized that unless I can get it houseruled I can't take arcane stunt...:smallannoyed:

I was wondering if it was worth it to grab a level of Monk with Kung Fu Genius and Unorthodox Flurry ; I would lose a die of sneak attack, but I would gain Int to AC and probably sub in fighting style to get combat expertise and +2 to Bluff. Unfortunately, it would make my total penalties -4, and I don't know if it would even be worth it at that point without full BAB.

Finally, would it be worth it to get Martial Study and Shadow Blade to get Dex to damage, or would it be better to keep crit fishing with a kukri? (thanks Gavinfoxx :smallwink:).

[Gavinfoxx]

I would really really reconsider any class that requires you to feint to get your bonus damage. Be greater Invisible, be wearing a ring of blinking, have a smoking weapon, be flanking with a buddy, etc. etc. -- fine. But nothing that requires you to feint to get your bonus damage.

[White_Drake]

Why not?

{additional characters.}

[Gavinfoxx]

Cause it eats up your feats, requires actions, and even if you get it down to a free action, it is an opposed check, whereas that other stuff generally just works. If you use bonus damage as a 'thing', you should generally set your character up so that you can get said bonus damage in basically every conceivable scenario. That means multiple ways of doing, say, sneak attack damage: Grease or marbles on enemies without 5 ranks in balance, flanking enemies, being improved invisible, attacking from concealment, etc. etc.

See:

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=127026
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7066595
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6893722&postcount=35

It only works on an with full attack if you have the Surprising Reposte Feat AND are an invisible blade, and THEN only if the enemy fails the opposed checks... is it really worth that investment??

Yea, Telling blow isn't that much better... but look at that third link. There are tooonnsss of ways to get your sneak attack!

[White_Drake]

As an invisible blade it wouldn't require any feats, with the possible exception of surprising riposte, and I'm not sure why you would need that. It's incredibly easy to get a massive bonus in a skill, and the capstone allows you to take ten. I'm not saying that there aren't other (better) ways, but I don't see why feinting (as long as you've got 5 levels of invisible blade) is so terrible.

[Gavinfoxx]

Can't you only make one feint per enemy per round, regardless of what action it is? Isn't there some restriction in Invisible Blade to that extent?

[White_Drake]

Damn you errata!

Okay, I hadn't read that... It should still be viable with Surprising Riposte though, right?

[Gavinfoxx]

=D =D

And things just got worse than you thought they did... so now, in order to make full attacks, you NEED Invisible Blade 5 & Surprising Riposte before your trick comes online.

You need to seriously ask yourself if that is worth it.

[White_Drake]

Okay, but if you can't feint more than once per round, this begs the question: Why did WotC bother at all? The only it could have any merit would be if you were fencing in formal combat, and since you can't use Invisible Blade with rapier it would have no thematic value, and seeing as we've already established that it has no combat value...

[Red_Dog]

Just a quick note I guess.

White_Drake=>

Consider Scarlet Corsair that CAN feint as free action, and doesn't make you burn feats for it. The biggest difference is that Scarlet Corsair has other gimmicks besides "iFeint". Also, just don't forget to grab staggering strike AS soon as you can. Absolute must for melee Sneak Attackers.
*Other useful "ambush feats" to me, are => Hamstring from CWar & 3[Sickening, Terrifying & Gloom strikes, and MAYBE virulent IF you are a poisonmancer] from DotU.*

Best of luck! ^^.

Gavinfoxx=>

I actually don't mind feint mechanics as its always there and a nice reserve option for when enemy foils your primary dex denial tricks. Plus the mechanic that keys off bluff isn't difficult to max. Though if the DM hates you fear magical beast with sense motive! ^^
Hence I generally prefer Scarlet Corsair over Invisible Blade for my melee sneak attackers.

[ojayaba]

and where is the scarlet corsair found

[Red_Dog]

and where is the scarlet corsair found

Stormwrack p.65

Basic features are ranger's HD, fullBAB, 4+skills[very decent list too], 3d6 sneak attack in 10 levels, amazing Intimidate percs[at level 5], Free action feint[once every some rounds] & and minor sailing/ship deck combat percs as well as Improved feint as bonus feat at lvl1.

Over all, good class and what swashbuckler SHOULD have been. Definitely doesn't compare to all might spell casting, but its nice.