Cannot find LA

[Beer Bear]

We're starting an epic campaign and maximum ECL is 24. I want to play as a prime spellcaster and quite interested in creating a demilich. But I haven't found this template's LA in Epic Level Handbook. Where can I find it? And had anyone ever played demilich?

P.S. First thread, yeah:)
P.P.S. Very bad English, sorry guys.

[Agent 451]

Don't apologize about your English, it's quite good. Better in fact than some native speakers I've seen here (and much better BY FAR than a lot of the first year university students that I have taught!)

As for the LA, I don' think that there IS one, at least not officially. This thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=103886)may be of some help though.

[Jeraa]

Page 156 shows the Effective Character Levels of the epic monsters. The Demilich (as presented in the book) has an ECL of 33. Subtract the 21 levels of wizard it has, and the normal lichs +4 level adjustment, that leaves the Demilichs level adjustment at +8.

Creating the soul gems necessary to become a demilich requires a 21st level caster, plus the +4 level adjustment of the lich (you have to be a lich before you can be a demilich), puts you at a minimum of 25th level. You can't be a demilich at ECL 24. The bare minimum ECL of a demilich is 33 (21 caster levels, +4 lich LA, +8 demilich LA).

[Beer Bear]

Jeraa
It can make sense, but +8 LA seems to be very small price for magic immunity, epic feats and so on.

Agent 451
Thanks for the link, it would be useful.
Is my English good enough? I am really pleased to hear that. I live in the forest for the five years and had no teachers to help me in my education.

[Jeraa]

Jeraa
It can make sense, but +8 LA seems to be very small price for magic immunity, epic feats and so on.

Note that the demiliches magic immunity does not work the same as the golems in the Monster Manual. It is not effectively infinite spell resistance. It is total immunity to all magic, both harmful and helpful, except for a few effects.


Demiliches are immune to all magical and supernatural effects, except as follows. A shatter spell affects a demilich as if it were a crystalline creature, but deals half the damage normally indicated. A dispel evil spell deals 3d6 points of damage (Fort save for half damage). Holy smite spells affect demiliches normally.

For all non-epic 3.0 monsters with magic immunity, it was changed to what is effectively infinite spell resistance when they are updated to 3.5. The epic monsters with magic immunity did not get that change - their magic immunity still functions exactly as in the book. You can't harm a demilich with a fireball, but at the same time, the demilich can't use Invisibility, or heal himself with magic.

I don't think thats how the designers intended for it to work, but by the rules, thats how it works.

Compare the wording of the two versions of magic immunity.


A clay golem is immune to any spell or spell-like ability that allows spell resistance.

Demiliches are immune to all magical and supernatural effects, except as follows.

One specifically only works only on spells and spell-like abilities that allow spell resistance. The other works on all magical and supernatural effects. The update booklet that brings the 3.0 Epic Level Handbook up to 3.5 rules doesn't change how the magic immunity of the Demilich works.

[Necroticplague]

Note that the demiliches magic immunity does not work the same as the golems in the Monster Manual. It is not effectively infinite spell resistance. It is total immunity to all magic, both harmful and helpful, except for a few effects.



For all non-epic 3.0 monsters with magic immunity, it was changed to what is effectively infinite spell resistance when they are updated to 3.5. The epic monsters with magic immunity did not get that change - their magic immunity still functions exactly as in the book. You can't harm a demilich with a fireball, but at the same time, the demilich can't use Invisibility, or heal himself with magic.

I don't think thats how the designers intended for it to work, but by the rules, thats how it works.

Compare the wording of the two versions of magic immunity.




One specifically only works only on spells and spell-like abilities that allow spell resistance. The other works on all magical and supernatural effects. The update booklet that brings the 3.0 Epic Level Handbook up to 3.5 rules doesn't change how the magic immunity of the Demilich works.

But then you run into logical consistency errors where the spell itself does no effect you, but something made as a result of a spell does. It's not the earthquake spell that hurts you, its the fact it buries you under rock that does. But this reading makes them immune to that, although not immune to equally-mundane cave-ins.