questions about a wild cohort

[Kol Korran]

1 of my party members expressed an interest in taking a wild cohort (as in the feat) in the coming campaign (a Hyena if this matters). we have so far avoided special mounts/ animal companions and such, so i have a few questions, not necesserily by RAW, but what you found works best:

1) does an animal companion makes the game more complex to run? does it make it more fun?

2) leveling up, does the animal companion stay relevent? becomes a burden? becomes too powerful? i'm interested both in the "swapping out for a bigger more advanced cohort" option, and the "stay true to my first animal cohort" option.

3) abilities and feats: do you use the ones in the MM? same as a regular PC? some NPC values?

4) armor: can an animal wear armor? does it require a feat? tricks? do you hand wave it?

5) any other useful tips? for DM or player?

thanks.

(search word: piratewitch)

[Righteous Doggy]

1. It can bog down the game if you have too many summons or pets going yes, or if the player is controlling it and is the type to consider every movement a super tactical extreme action he has to consult the books about. If he just hits stuff and uses it for skills and roleplaying its usually very cool.

2. They never become a burden, but the slow progressing ones do tend to become very weak by endgame... makes decent scouts or usable for skills roleplaying, combat not so much. But hey, full progression gives you a T-Rex. Who's going to complain about that thing!?

4. you can, if you get it wartrained(template from mm2 I think). Savage species I think has a list of magic item slots for animals. Of course you can fluff anything and make things up if you want

Thats what I know :smallsmile:

[Kol Korran]

thanks Righteous Doggy.


but the slow progressing ones do tend to become very weak by endgame...

by "slow progressing ones" do you mean animal cohort from the early levels? not swapped? or generally animal cohorts by the "wild cohort" feat (who are supposed to progress slower than regular animal companions?)

anyone else has opinions?

[Righteous Doggy]

by "slow progressing ones" do you mean animal cohort from the early levels? not swapped? or generally animal cohorts by the "wild cohort" feat (who are supposed to progress slower than regular animal companions?)

Some classes get animal companions that only stay half that class level at any given moment, like a rangers. Those animal companions are comparably useless to say, that T-rex the Druid has going for himself.

[Spuddles]

Armor proficiency requires armor proficiency feats.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Warbeast (which is about 1k GP per HD and a Handle Animal check IIRC) gives proficiency with armour and in anycase you can easilly give a ACP 0 barding to your companion/cohort (mithril chain shirt for a start).

[Invader]

If played right animal companions can be effective through 20 levels but Righteous Doggy is right in that an animal companion that only progresses to 1/2 character level is severely hindered unless you spend feats and magic item buffing them up which is going to take quite bit a way from you effectiveness.

I don't think mundane AC's like a hyena really slow the game down that much especially compared to summoned monsters, natures allies, and planar allies that have abilities that you're not used to. One that def helps is to have all AC's or summoned creatures move on the player turn instead of all going separately.

[Rasman]

1) It mostly means that in combat the player might have more dice to roll. As long as the player knows what his Animal Companion, or AC, is going to do and can know to prepare ahead his rolls for it, it doesn't slow combat down all that much.

I also believe it makes the game more fun but maybe a little bit of work for you. The way MY DM runs ACs is that we don't Role-Play them. We give him a general idea of their personality and he runs them. It is far more interesting and fun than them being just some 2 Int Derpy Fighter.

2) It depends slightly on the campaign, tbh. They aren't as awesome as a Druid Animal Companion, but if you change the cohort from time to time, I can see them staying relevant for sure. In terms of being a burden, if they stay medium sized, it's not so bad because they're easy to move around. The only time they become a 'burden' is if you play with a BIG gaming group and you teleport a lot.

3) Feats are based on the creatures Int. I believe once they hit an Int of 3 or maybe 4, they are open to ANY feat they could conceivably use. Until the, however, they would be restricted to the same feat list that Druid Animal Companions are restricted to.

4) As stated before, I would HIGHLY suggest that the DM be the one actually running the Cohort outside of combat. It might be an animal, but anyone that has a pet knows that they have personalities of their own. My Druid's AC is my best example.

While in a town, Sophie had to stay outside because the Inn Keep didn't allow pets. While we were staying in that town, she would 'sleep' outside the window until it got dark. The first night there, I opened the window to talk to her, because she was mad she couldn't come in. She clawed her way into the room though the window and jumped back out that way in the morning. Later that day, while I thought she was taking a cat nap, some local children found her and started playing with her. She knew better than to eat them, so she mostly just dealt with it, but EVENTUALLY started playing back. She still won't let me take the bow out of her hair.

As you can see, the AC can be a character all of its own, can be interesting and create a lot of different types of situations. Besides, if they get smart enough, they can do things like pour buckets of water on your PCs heads. Who would seriously blame the cat for that?

[Dusk Eclipse]

The only requisite to take feats is having an int score bigger than 0, it doesn't matter if you have int 1 or 100 you can take any feat (unless the feat itself has a stat pre-requisite like combat expertise).

And AFAIK there isn't a restricted feat list for a Druids Animal companion, they can take any feat as long as the meet the pre-requisites.

[Rasman]

The only prerequisite to take feats is having an int score bigger than 0, it doesn't matter if you have int 1 or 100 you can take any feat (unless the feat itself has a stat prerequisite like combat expertise).

And AFAIK there isn't a restricted feat list for a Druids Animal companion, they can take any feat as long as the meet the prerequisites.

Since he never stated if the game was 3.5 or PF, I assume the PF rules because it is what I'm most familiar with and it simply makes more sense.



Feats

This is the total number of feats possessed by an animal companion. Animal companions should select their feats from those listed under Animal Feats. Animal companions can select other feats, although they are unable to utilize some feats (such as Martial Weapon Proficiency). Note that animal companions cannot select a feat with a requirement of base attack bonus +1 until they gain their second feat at 3 Hit Dice.

Animal companions can select from the following feats:

Acrobatic, Agile Maneuvers, Armor Proficiency (light, medium, and heavy), Athletic, Blind-Fight, Combat Reflexes, Diehard, Dodge, Endurance, Great Fortitude, Improved Bull Rush, Improved Initiative, Improved Natural Armor, Improved Natural Attack, Improved Overrun, Intimidating Prowess, Iron Will, Lightning Reflexes, Mobility, Power Attack, Run, Skill Focus, Spring Attack, Stealthy, Toughness, Weapon Finesse, and Weapon Focus.

Animal companions with an Intelligence of 3 or higher can select any feat they are physically capable of using. GMs might expand this list to include feats from other sources.

3.5 only mentions feats in the HD section.



Bonus HD

Extra eight-sided (d8) Hit Dice, each of which gains a Constitution modifier, as normal. Remember that extra Hit Dice improve the animal companion’s base attack and base save bonuses. An animal companion’s base attack bonus is the same as that of a druid of a level equal to the animal’s HD. An animal companion has good Fortitude and Reflex saves (treat it as a character whose level equals the animal’s HD). An animal companion gains additional skill points and feats for bonus HD as normal for advancing a monster’s Hit Dice.

You are both wrong and right in this instance. But now you know both sides.

In terms of feats, however, it really boils down to what the DM will allow anyway, especially if the player tries giving his AC caster feats or feats that the animal couldn't conceivably use. Although based on the 3.5 wording, I would limit it to Monster Feats since the feats are based on Monster HD.

[Dusk Eclipse]

I don't play PF so I didn't know they changed the rule concerning feats, glad to know though.

And I too assumed 3.5 since the OP mentioned Wild cohort which is a 3.5 feat (unless it exists in PF too in which case I assumed wrong).

[Urpriest]

Question 3. makes me think you need to read my Monster Handbook, link in sig.

For armor, spending enough tricks to train an animal for battle (it's one of the trick packages) grants armor proficiency IIRC. Otherwise it can spend a feat. Warbeast isn't an option since you can't have a templated Wild Cohort.

[Righteous Doggy]

For armor, spending enough tricks to train an animal for battle (it's one of the trick packages) grants armor proficiency IIRC. Otherwise it can spend a feat. Warbeast isn't an option since you can't have a templated Wild Cohort.

Why can't you template a wild cohort?

[Urpriest]

Why can't you template a wild cohort?

Wild Cohorts have to come from a limited list of animals, there are no templated animals in that list.

[Righteous Doggy]

Wild Cohorts have to come from a limited list of animals, there are no templated animals in that list.

Well... its still that animal, it just has a template? I'm not too familiar with wild cohorts, was just curious. I'm far more familiar with familiars(sorry, had to say it.)

[Dusk Eclipse]

Wild Cohorts have to come from a limited list of animals, there are no templated animals in that list.

While you cannot start with a templated animal I don't see anything in Wild Cohort description that would disquallify the cohort to take Warbeast, and it can by RAW since it has a given GP value and it is an adquired template. Or am I missing something?

[Solaris]

Why can't you template a wild cohort?


Wild Cohort [General]

You have a special bond with a wild animal, and it is willing to travel and adventure with you.

Benefit: You gain an animal cohort. The animal cohort is generally friendly to you and is willing to follow you and adventure with you. If given proper training, the animal cohort will willingly serve as your mount, guardian, and companion. (See the description of the Handle Animal skill on page 74 of the Player's Handbook for more details on training animals.)

You can use the Handle Animal skill on your animal cohort as a move action rather than as a standard action, and you gain a +2 bonus on all Handle Animal checks made to direct or influence your animal cohort.

Provided the DM gives her approval, at 1st level you can choose from a badger, camel, dire rat, dog, riding dog, eagle, hawk, horse (light or heavy), owl, pony, snake (Small or Medium viper), or wolf. Like a druid, you can choose more powerful animals as you increase in level. These alternative animal cohorts work like the alternative animal companions available to a druid, but they are available as cohorts later than they are available as animal companions. When selecting an alternative animal cohort, use the list of alternative animal companions on page 36 of the Player's Handbook, but treat yourself as a druid three levels lower than your character level. For example, once you reach 7th level, you can choose an animal cohort off the list of animal companions available to a 4th-level druid.

Special: Druids and rangers who take the wild cohort feat gain an animal cohort in addition to their animal companion. Although the two abilities are similar, they follow different sets of rules and must be tracked separately.

You can only ever have one wild cohort at any given time.
Mostly because I'm too lazy to go hunting for the link. If I'm tracking correctly, it's because the animal companion (and thus by extension wild cohort) must be a normal animal of its kind before the modifications for being an AC/WC are factored in.
I'm not seeing it, however, and as I understand it warbeasting is a common practice for animal companions. "Warbeast" is apparently an acquired template, though the wording is a bit fuzzy - I can see the argument for it being an inherited template.

[Urpriest]

While you cannot start with a templated animal I don't see anything in Wild Cohort description that would disquallify the cohort to take Warbeast, and it can by RAW since it has a given GP value and it is an adquired template. Or am I missing something?

It's not an acquired template, regardless.

[Kol Korran]

Warbeast (which is about 1k GP per HD and a Handle Animal check IIRC) gives proficiency with armour and in anycase you can easilly give a ACP 0 barding to your companion/cohort (mithril chain shirt for a start).

Where is Warbeast from? the character won't be able to train his animal at 2nd level, but perhaps an option for the future? where can i find it?



I also believe it makes the game more fun but maybe a little bit of work for you. The way MY DM runs ACs is that we don't Role-Play them. We give him a general idea of their personality and he runs them. It is far more interesting and fun than them being just some 2 Int Derpy Fighter.

As you can see, the AC can be a character all of its own, can be interesting and create a lot of different types of situations. Besides, if they get smart enough, they can do things like pour buckets of water on your PCs heads. Who would seriously blame the cat for that?

i plan on partl me playing it, partly the player. the player controls it most times, but i may "take it for a ride" to make things more interesting. a good suggestion!



For armor, spending enough tricks to train an animal for battle (it's one of the trick packages) grants armor proficiency IIRC.

what is IIRC? i checked the handle animal skills, training to fight mentions nothing about gaining an armor proficiency... am i missing something?

thanks for the replies folks!

[Righteous Doggy]

Where is Warbeast from? the character won't be able to train his animal at 2nd level, but perhaps an option for the future? where can i find it?

Its from MM2 I think.

[Solaris]

what is IIRC? i checked the handle animal skills, training to fight mentions nothing about gaining an armor proficiency... am i missing something?

If I Recall Correctly.
I can find nothing to support this, though Urpriest might just be remembering something I'm not.

[Urpriest]

what is IIRC? i checked the handle animal skills, training to fight mentions nothing about gaining an armor proficiency... am i missing something?

thanks for the replies folks!

IIRC means if I recall correctly. In this case looks like I didn't.:smallredface:

There's a notation in the Animal type which says that they are not proficient with armor unless trained for war. There are some (oddly enough including Curmudgeon) who argue that this means that an Animal trained for war gains proficiency with all armor.

[Kol Korran]

IIRC means if I recall correctly. In this case looks like I didn't.:smallredface:

There's a notation in the Animal type which says that they are not proficient with armor unless trained for war. There are some (oddly enough including Curmudgeon) who argue that this means that an Animal trained for war gains proficiency with all armor.

ok, thanks for the clarification. i think i will still require some feat for it, or the animal might gain proficiency with druid armor (more natural? :smallconfused: for an extra trick or two...

i'll need to think about it.