No Fair Fights: Trickery and Death

[dark.sun.druid]

I'm doing some research on building tricky characters, the kind that are never engaged in "fair fights." What I'm looking for is a character who doesn't ever need to make more than a couple attack rolls to win: a scout who uses bolas to trip up opponents to move in for the kill, an aristocrat who takes care of enemies by using poisonous drinks, or an artificer who is more than happy to bury some land mines in the path of the advancing army. I'm looking for *your* ideas on building a character that excels in denying more straightforward enemies a chance to swing their longswords.

Things to consider when submitting an idea:
• Speed is more important than hitpoints. The idea is to never take any direct damage, so being tough isn't very important.
• The less magic, the better. Ultimately, the best ideas are the ones that are available even to very low level characters.
• Assume all books are available. This should allow you to be more creative.
• What I'm ultimately aiming for is something that can be integrated into a full character concept, rather than a handful of tricks that any character can use (although if you know any good tricks, I'd love to hear about those as well!).

The Playground has never let me down before, so let's see what the ingenious minds here can come up with this time!

[Feralventas]

Warlock paired with divination/seer specialist. the Seer acts as a target-spotter to keep track on the intended target. The Warlock takes Eldritch Spear, Walk Unseen, and Fel Flight. Once the seer knows where the target is, the warlock takes flight, goes invisible, takes a round or two's worth of Eldritch Blast shots at the target, then backs off to avoid retaliation.

Alternatively, stack the invocations that let the Warlock's eye crawl out of its socket and move around. Eldritch Blast never explitly states where the attack is coming from, so the eye can crawl well away from the user, function as a turret, and strike at enemies while the warlock remains safe in their rooms elsewhere in town or half a mile away in a wild environment.

I once tried to build an Expert/Rogue/Master Trapsmith that posed as a carpenter and handyman. Things like candles that burned off poisons into the air, faulty supports that would crash and crush the target after a few hours (preferably over their bed while asleep) or even simply washing the floors with water that had sugar in it to attract insects and discourage use of a room that was more difficult to get to.

A wizard that mails Explosive Runes to his targets.

Edited because I remembered one more.

The Masseuse. A Rogue with Improved and Superior Unarmed Strike who takes the skill-trick Mosquito's Bite, which prevents the target of your attacks from noticing that they've been attacked. Imp and Sup unarmed strike then allow you to deal lethal damage that goes up by level, in addition to the Sneak Attack dice. Take this combined with the fact that most folks are going to be Flat Footed when you give them a massage, and your target dies quietly and peacefully as you poke and prod and re-arrange their organs without them even knowing that it's happening. Unfortunately I think it requires 12 ranks in Slight of hand, so this may not work as well for your purposes.

[Morph Bark]

The Masseuse. A Rogue with Improved and Superior Unarmed Strike who takes the skill-trick Mosquito's Bite, which prevents the target of your attacks from noticing that they've been attacked. Imp and Sup unarmed strike then allow you to deal lethal damage that goes up by level, in addition to the Sneak Attack dice. Take this combined with the fact that most folks are going to be Flat Footed when you give them a massage, and your target dies quietly and peacefully as you poke and prod and re-arrange their organs without them even knowing that it's happening. Unfortunately I think it requires 12 ranks in Slight of hand, so this may not work as well for your purposes.

IIRC, the Mosquito Bite skill trick actually DOES let the target notice, but it thinks you missed until they notice the damage on the next round/turn.

[Talionis]

There is a third level Assassin spell Cursed Blade, that will not let your target heal without removing the curse. Then take the feat that allows you to trade dice of Sneak Attack to cause the wound to bleed. If you want to be cruel there is even a spell that keeps them from being the target of remove curse. If you are a Duskblade or Ordained Champion that spell can be channeled. So one hit can pretty much be lethal.

[Feralventas]

IIRC, the Mosquito Bite skill trick actually DOES let the target notice, but it thinks you missed until they notice the damage on the next round/turn.

So it does. Probably best to go for a coup de grace instead of full round attack then, but the target (presuming your profession roll is good enough) still should be vulnerable to it.

[dark.sun.druid]

The Carpenter idea is hilarious, I really like that one. It fits well into an Eberon campaign too, because of that one house of spies and assassins who pose as architects.

In terms of that Assassin trick, is that meant to be with the Assassin prestige class, or the base class presented in The Assassin's Handbook?

[rweird]

Aboloth Mucus/Ray of Stupidity/(Lesser) Shivering Touch/Enervation.

Aboloth Mucus: Target people without casters away from water. Costs 35 GP per so it really is a bargain, go master thrower and at higher levels spam it against whatever needs to breath.

Ray of Stupidity: This is a second level spell, though carrying a few scrolls and UMDing it on animals would let you escape the wrath of pretty much whatever animal the DM throws at you, Chain it and you can take out a pack of them. If you have sneak attack, it could take out a fighter, or really put a crimp in the wizards day. (Hopefully denies higher level spells)

Shivering Touch scrolls cost a few hundred GP and can take out many low Dex things, if a giant is rampaging the town, this scroll could freeze it in its tracks, with sneak attack it can stop pretty much anything no immune to sneak attack or ability damage.

Enervation: Ranged touch attack 1d4 negative levels, add sneak attack and you can on average 1 shot a balor at level 9.

I think a rogue with a bunch of scrolls and maybe some aboloth mucus would be the best. At level 3, your WBL should be enough to by 20+ aboloth mucus, a few scrolls of Ray of Stupidity and Shivering touch, one of enervation. Find a way to get a better melee reach for shivering touch so you can flank and use scroll without AoOs, or have someone else provoke one. The main problem this has is immunity to ability damage/energy drain/ don't breath, (Undead) though throwing something at the undead that has the spell Sacred Item on it is a good way to deal with them, if you have multiple throws, you can stack fear effects and see them run.

[Slipperychicken]

Enervation: Ranged touch attack 1d4 negative levels, add sneak attack and you can on average 1 shot a balor at level 9.


SA dice are damage. It does not add negative levels.



Sneak Attack
The rogue’s attack deals extra damage any time her target would be denied a Dexterity bonus to AC (whether the target actually has a Dexterity bonus or not), or when the rogue flanks her target. This extra damage is 1d6 at 1st level, and it increases by 1d6 every two rogue levels thereafter. Should the rogue score a critical hit with a sneak attack, this extra damage is not multiplied.

[Randomguy]

SA dice are damage. It does not add negative levels.

This. In complete arcane, it states that if you sneak attack with a spell that does ability damage or deals negative levels, the extra dice do negative energy damage.


What spell keeps someone from being the target of remove curse?


Take the Oneiromancy feats, and you can use magic discover an enemies greatest desire and their worst fear, no save. (The saves are against the other effects of the spell). There could be thousands of ways to play off of those. This works best with diviners. Oh, and for extra fun, travel into someone's dreamscape and bind a phantasmal slayer there.

If you want to take out an adventurer, hire them. Send them into the tomb of horrors. Or you could give them a scroll (or potion, if you've got the right prestige classes) of iron body and tell them to use it in a certain point in a dungeon, when you know they'll be facing rust monsters.

[rweird]

I stand corrected.

[Acanous]

indeed, I'd be interested to know what spell stops Remove Curse, as well. With the Curse and the Bleed, it reminds me of Lanky.

[Thumperganker]

Dark (the +1 template) Whisper Gnome (Races of Stone) Warlock

at ECL 1 you are sitting with a 16 for hide just from racial effectively. Plus the ability to hide in plain sight if you are within 10 feet of shadows. if you want to avoid magic you can go rogue, sneak attack and let them try to find you.

[Feralventas]

The Carpenter idea is hilarious, I really like that one. It fits well into an Eberon campaign too, because of that one house of spies and assassins who pose as architects.

In terms of that Assassin trick, is that meant to be with the Assassin prestige class, or the base class presented in The Assassin's Handbook?

I don't know which one you're talking about. The Skill Tricks are in Complete Scoundrel. The Assasin PrC actually doesn't help since it's got less skill points that you need and spells that light up on Detect Magic. All you really need is Nystul's Magic Aura to make your Traps not look like Traps when someone casts Detect Traps.

[Talionis]

In terms of that Assassin trick, is that meant to be with the Assassin prestige class, or the base class presented in The Assassin's Handbook?

Assassin Prestige Class in the Dungeon Master's Guide 1. The spell is Cursed Blade and its in the Spell Compendium.

Arterial Strike feat is in Complete Scoundrel. That makes you bleed.

Spell Immunity (naming Remove Curse) is a Cleric Abjuration spell that keeps the person from being target of a spell.

Chameleon's are the most easy way to be able to pull off being able to cast both Cleric and Assassin spells.

[Morph Bark]

Dark (the +1 template) Whisper Gnome (Races of Stone) Warlock

at ECL 1 you are sitting with a 16 for hide just from racial effectively. Plus the ability to hide in plain sight if you are within 10 feet of shadows. if you want to avoid magic you can go rogue, sneak attack and let them try to find you.

False. This is the Shadowdancer version. The Dark template gives a different version of Hide in Plain Sight.

[dark.sun.druid]

Wow, that Aboleth mucus is pretty nasty stuff! And it's really cheap, so that makes it pretty much a must have. I also found another thread (Shax's Indispensable Haversack (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=148101)) that has some really good suggestions of items for anyone, but particularly a tricky character (those eggshell bombs are crazy!).

And thanks for the clarification on the Assassin bleed-y thing. That definitely looks like a useful trick, although it does involve sinking some levels into a few classes.

[Talionis]

And thanks for the clarification on the Assassin bleed-y thing. That definitely looks like a useful trick, although it does involve sinking some levels into a few classes.

Pieces of it are still good. Even without spell immunity, needing remove curse is pretty rare remedy.

Cursed Blade lasts an entire fight. A rogue could use a wand to give themselves the effect for a whole fight.

But like I said before, it was a strategy I used on my Chameleon.

[Salanmander]

Are there any at-will damage abilities (or abilities that will otherwise cause death if used enough times) that just require being able to target, not line of effect? Because I can see it being nasty to use a burrow speed or incorporeality or similar + blindsight + 1d6 damage to a target every round to just ping someone to death. Of course there are many adventurers who could take 1d6 damage a round all day and not care (due to fast healing etc.), but it would be a good way to get rid of a lot of threats.

[rweird]

The problem with Aboloth Mucus is at higher levels, almost nothing needs to breathe excepts for dragons though they could hold there breath long enough they won't care, (Unless you run away, though many of them could find water in time or teleport to it) or the Tarrasque, I think that could 1 hit kill him, after about 15 minutes. :smallbiggrin:

[killianh]

I would say a build of hexblade 1\factotum 3\DFA 6\beguiler 7\ninja 3 (levels placed in any order of progression)

hexblade gives you curses
factotum give you all skills, and some nifty tricks
DFA gives you a breath weapon that can be used to sicken or slow and humanoid shape as a lesser invocation so you can shape change into other people (including Dark Stalker with a bonus 3d6 sneak attack damage)
beguiler gives more skills, and mind control magic
Ninja gives you sudden strike, poison use, and ghost step

This would give you all of the bonus class features to really be tricky, and most of the tricks that anyone can use work great with this one. The build is DEX, CHA, and CON based

[Slipperychicken]

All you really need is Nystul's Magic Aura to make your Traps not look like Traps when someone casts Detect Traps.

Invest in an item of at-will Magic Aura (1,000gp?). Congratulations, you are no longer a Christmas Tree. Grab Darkstalker, a good Hide check, some divination-blocking effects, Silence, (Greater) Invisibility, and you'll be a lot harder to find.


It's a point of contention whether Mind Blank blocks True Seeing, though I think that's how the RAW works. Check with your GM before using. Also, learn the distances from which spells like True Seeing/Blindsense/etc. work, so you can stay out of range until it's time to strike.

[Morph Bark]

I would say a build of hexblade 1\factotum 3\DFA 6\beguiler 7\ninja 3 (levels placed in any order of progression)

hexblade gives you curses
factotum give you all skills, and some nifty tricks
DFA gives you a breath weapon that can be used to sicken or slow and humanoid shape as a lesser invocation so you can shape change into other people (including Dark Stalker with a bonus 3d6 sneak attack damage)
beguiler gives more skills, and mind control magic
Ninja gives you sudden strike, poison use, and ghost step

This would give you all of the bonus class features to really be tricky, and most of the tricks that anyone can use work great with this one. The build is DEX, CHA, and CON based

Why would any sane person do this? If you'd have access to so many books, you probably have read through some PrCs too and realized they add a lot more and a lot better stuff than the first few levels of half of those classes listed. Heck, at first I was disappointed there was only one level of Hexblade rather than 3, but that is just the least of this build's problems.

[Gwendol]

Make use of dust of sneezing and choking... thrown, grenade like weapon perhaps, or make arrows that can release it.

Again, should take out most things that breath at lower levels.


Dust of Sneezing and Choking
This fine dust appears to be dust of appearance. If cast into the air, it causes those within a 20-foot spread to fall into fits of sneezing and coughing. Those failing a DC 15 Fortitude save take 2d6 points of Constitution damage immediately. In addition, those failing a second DC 15 Fortitude save 1 minute later are dealt 1d6 points of Constitution damage. Those who succeed on either saving throw are nonetheless disabled by choking (treat as stunned) for 5d4 rounds.

Faint conjuration; CL 7th; Craft Wondrous Item, poison; Price 2,400 gp.

Stunned for at least five rounds should give a rogue plenty of time to SA them to oblivion. Alternatively follow up with something to make them helpless, and CDG FTW.

[Person_Man]

I would think that the least fair way would be to Hide, sneak up on and Dominate all of the people close to your target one at a time while remaining hidden, plant a note on their body which has Explosive Ruins cast on it, and then take them prisoner, giving them orders to kill your target after all of them are freed. Eventually your target will come for them, and when he does, they will either kill him, or they will be killed when they find and read the strange note.

[Slipperychicken]

I would think that the least fair way would be to Hide, sneak up on and Dominate all of the people close to your target one at a time while remaining hidden, plant a note on their body which has Explosive Ruins cast on it, and then take them prisoner, giving them orders to kill your target after all of them are freed. Eventually your target will come for them, and when he does, they will either kill him, or they will be killed when they find and read the strange note.

He gets a DC 15 Sense Motive to realize his friends are Dominated. Unless the check is only triggered when you actually give a command..