So... taming and protecting Purple Worms and other monsters?

[Red_Dog]

Hello Playgrounders! I have an interesting[to me of course = )] question.

I am planning to drop some plot hooks to my players that will let them, upon completion of these side quests, acquire big scary "magical beasts" in some significant numbers.

The idea is to make few short quests using this formula=>

=>NPC X subtly drops a hint that he/she had this cool project that he/she worked on on getting a Beast X to be part of a growing warmahine of players.

=>Players travel to location[most likely planar location] X and fight 2-3 small beasts X and than fight a Big beast X and do something to swade the beast to "work" for them aka be a tamed warbeast.

Now while the formula is fine and dandy, I need help with 2 issues.

Issue ONE=> I've gotten pretty good at making scary beasties of low enough CRs so they can be thrown in numbers at players and NPC alike. The issue I currently have is that a lot of cool juicy Targets [Purple Worm, Could Ray[MMII p.49], Remorhaz and others] have some gazing weak spots that make them useless. The BIGGEST is Will saves & dreaded Int score. Its pointless to sent players on a 1 session long quest that results in getting things that will be ray'ed of stupidity to DEATH by imperial Wizards in few turns.
How do I protect these beat's fragile Mind? Maybe a template? Will save can be obtained thru Steadfast determination and huge con[which is not an issue]... but dread Ray of Stupidity spam is a HUGE concern.

Issue TWO=> How can one tame such beasts? Party is a Marshal Ur-Priest, a Psychic Rouge Factotum, a Dungeon Crusher Fighter, A Soul eater Pal of Tyranny very young green Dragon and Ranged Psychic Warrior. Levels range from 10 to 13.
Should they hire a ranger? or a lot of rangers? I would Imagine taming such a beast like Purple Worm isn't easy? Maybe a "brain-box-like" device that is massed produced? So yeah... Need help here guys, never played a Beast Tamer = ]

If someone will decide to help, use Purple Worm at first as a "control beast" and use either Pandemonium or Earth Plane for Worm's Residence. ^^

Thanks in advance! ^^

P.S. For reference, Brainbox =>
Look at Tyrannosaurus's head.
http://funnycrave.frsucrave.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/dinosaurs-lasers-550x412_blog.jpg

[Golden Ladybug]

The answer to both your questions is Zombies :smallcool:

I can see why this might be considered unhelpful, but keep it in mind nonetheless.

[Crossblade]

Magic Gems placed inside the beasts heads. Everyone loves a good MacGuffin!

You're travelling to other planes/dimentions, so the boss battle will be a powered up version of the monster with the gem inside it's forehead. It will be a semi-intelligent being already, so there's you're excuse to boost Will saves by +20 or so and Int/Wis by +10.

Think of them as the Orbs of Dragonkind. But for worm things.

[Red_Dog]

The answer to both your questions is Zombies :smallcool:

I can see why this might be considered unhelpful, but keep it in mind nonetheless.

= ]

2 Issues>

=>Limited numbers. Players have a CL18 Lich that if given a MiC rod of double undead HD can wrangle 72HD of undead still doesn't control an army. He can use shenanigans of Command Undead and than command decent amount of skeleton worms. But agan, FAR from perfect solution. Though skeletal beasts is something to look into = ]

=>Loss of Features. To my knowledge you can't make skeletons retain attacks of original creature. That very bad as, the whole idea is to have these Beasts shine using some specific gimmicks. the aforementioned Purple Worm has Poison, Amnomnoming, Tremor Sense and Borrow. If worm looses these, than its a waste of time to get said worm in first place.

I do appreciate the input as now I at least have skeletal beast alternative = ]

EDIT: Didn't see your post there = ]

Magic Gems placed inside the beasts heads. Everyone loves a good MacGuffin!

You're travelling to other planes/dimentions, so the boss battle will be a powered up version of the monster with the gem inside it's forehead. It will be a semi-intelligent being already, so there's you're excuse to boost Will saves by +20 or so and Int/Wis by +10.

Think of them as the Orbs of Dragonkind. But for worm things.

I just need Int protection as will I can usually fix. It would have to be per worm though or in an area... Hmmm I try as much as I can to avoid mucguffins... But Illithids got a cloning/biomass recycling machine.... I might just make some item of worm-command.

Still.. I was thinking along the lines of of corrupted by Abyss, Fiendish Template or Anarchic Template kind of idea... I don't think non of these solve the Int issue. I am frankly surprised that Magical Beast has an Int of 1 in the first place...

[Fable Wright]

Well, if you handwave the fluff about only Illithids being able to perform the ritual to make them, Voidminds would work very, very well. The voidminded target can be Dominated by any of the people who started the ritual, they gain a bunch of immunities including ability damage, negative levels and mind affecting, which nicely eliminates all the issues. They also gain additional tentacles and a ranged attack. Of course, this might backfire and wind up in the players racing to complete the Emerald Legion (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=101587) as the ultimate defense force, but the template still solves just about all of the other problems.

[Red_Dog]

What book is Voidmind from? O_0

There are Illithids in the campaign... This would make for some delecius tension and hard choices if only Illithids can make it. As of now, players are far more inclined to just exterminate them as they are a minor nuisance to their powerful Lich ally.

P.S. Found it! MMIII. Hmm this can make Illithids far far far more attractive. But, linchpinning 5+ side-quests on one faction that players already somewhat hate might back fire. I am definitely keeping this as an alternative, but any other ideas? ^^

P.S.2.... And now Illithid's guardians, Balhannoth, are given Voidmind template. Thx DMofDarkness!^^ My players will not thank you though = ]

[Morph Bark]

Voidmind is from Monster Manual III. It is, I believe, an LA+3 template.

[Red_Dog]

So, I have read the voidmind entry. Its pretty bad ass... seriously, the 2 most powerful immunities for +1CR... AND manifesting powers thru it... Does the creature effectively takes dual actions one of which is manifesting high Telepath Level powers?? O_0 Missread that. No dual actions. Still insanely powerful thoughMan the drows might be in serious trouble now [drows are besieged by the illithid's numerous "monsters" while there is only 5 illithids in my Illithid "hive" faction.]. Hell I am now making "lieutenants" for their insectile soldiers just being same soldiers perhaphs with one extra level and voidmind template. Instead of extra 4 extra HDs, they are just getting 1 & Voidmind and serving as a casting beacon for Illihids.... damn that's serious busniness....^^ Again, my players will NOT thank you = ]

However, how many creature can said Illithid Council make? I am guessing infinite as I found no restrictions? Perhaps I missed something?O_0

[Red_Dog]

So, I did some digging. I think I found few ways to counter serious issues like ray of stupidity [immune to mind effecting thru beast of legends for example]. I also found a lvl3 cleric spell with mins/lvl that stops any and all ability drain/dmg and etc.

However one question remains. How do I stop an annoying Mind cripple. Perhaps this should be in a different thread, but it seems that its way to easy to sneak attack a Purple Worm. His Tremor Sense is easily foiled by Darkstalker, and his other senses suck.

So a psychic rouge player can pretty much solo the entire cave systems with just control light+ darkstalker + mindcripple combo. This seems unbelievably powerful.

It seems that big beasts need ability dmg immunity more than anything else as mind effecting stuff can be quelled with Endurance + Steadfast Determination... So far I haven't found a reasonable template that can help with that.

*NOTE, that I am not sure that for Purple Worm it is even possible without metagaming to just Swollow the rouge or sting for massive Poison damage. The party will most likley know what they are facing, and the rouge will just hide and Worm won't be able to detect him with Tremor Sense. So instead of holding back the rouge, the worm is far likely to murder the entire party BUT not the rouge... Frost worm seemed to ave less issues due to hysterically easily maxed Sonic Cone [reverberation + beast of Legends + ability focus + more HD = freaking TPK... or at least one death for sure.] even though worm possess far less senses, he just "carpet bombs" the "likely area" which thanks to the cone's size is HUGE and likely to be bigger if I rule that in Ice caves of Water plane where the Frost Worm will live, it will double sonic effects due to harmonizing effect of the caves.*

P.S. Couple Templates for Creatures I've been playing around with are =>
Spellwarped=> Uncapped SR which for once is useful, +4 Int[good buffer at least] and absorbing spells. Again fails to stop mindcripple..
Beast of Legends for Bosses=> Immunities, potential Spell Reflection! and bunch of very powerful boosts. Sadly STILL doesn't stop bloody mind-cripple.
Elemental=> Finally does stop sneak attack and therefore mind-cripple[but still susceptible to penetrating strike] and does have interesting twist to it. However definitely changes the "feel of the creature" to me at least...

[Otomodachi]

Use the familiar progression table regarding int and the familiar rules regarding hp, saves and etc. as compared to it's master. I'd skip the natural AC bonus unless you think it's a non-factor, then toss it in to keep your players happy (everyone likes bonuses, right?) and I wouldn't allow these things to ever deliver touch spells. *MAYBE* benefit from buffs on caster, if you think they'll need to share blurs and the like at higher levels to remain consequential.

Pros: the rules are there, ready to be used, very little massaging.

Cons: I dunno if it fits the flavour you want for these nifty little reward.

[Fable Wright]

However, how many creature can said Illithid Council make? I am guessing infinite as I found no restrictions? Perhaps I missed something?O_0

Technically, it can make as many voidminds as it can creatures it can catch.

Also, if your players decide against siding with the Illithids (and I wouldn't blame them if they did- they wouldn't directly have control over the voidminds, and Illithids are schemeing bastards...) you could run a quest to find a way to replicate that process. Have a significant NPC give them the idea for the quest- you can have the master-minion relationship between the Voidmind and the Illithids reversed. Give them a quest to find a scroll of Wish, or a Ring of Three Wishes, and then send in a trusted NPC to get Voidminded. Then run an extraction mission- have them find the NPC, Wish the Voidminded template to reverse polarity, get your Dominated mindflayer companions to make all the Voidminded creatures you could possibly want, under the control of the illithids controlled by the trusted source. A lot of power for one person, but it protects their creatures from everything they need to be protected from, while not depending on support from one of the least trustworthy factions in existance.

[Red_Dog]

Thx for replys guys! Any help is always appreciated! ^^

I think so far, I only have 2 quests down. Both actually turned to be more complex than I though.

Both starts of with a pitch from a "friendly" Efreeti.

First would involve some Fire Plane Omnimental hunt [I am making minor fiat that Omnimentals are pinata filled with diamonds] and run ins with Phoelarch who are riding Fire Elemental Cloud Rays. This could escalate into finding a Legendary Cloud Ray and capturing it.
*Cloud Ray is VERY big, and VERY cool and the Phoelarch tame them[minor fiat, they will be planar Rangers by enlarge anyway. Elemental Cloud Ray would be hard to damage due to immunity to sneak attack and potentially some Phoelarch having minor cleric casting up to level 3*

Second Quest involves investigating after math of some failed expedition into an abandoned Iceberg Fortress that at some point belonged to a uber wizard that died centuries ago. Fortress is crawling with Spellwarped Frost Worms that are led by semi-sentient Spellwarped Frost Worm that protects an Orb that can command these Worms.
*Frost Worms are by far extremely easy to Optimize with Reverberation & Ability focus Alone. They also can completely terrify the party without actually party seeing them or them seeing all of the party. Plus I am still deciding on some back up dancers for this Iceberg Fortress*

So? what do you guys think? Interesting Beasty-Related quests? ^^

[Fable Wright]

Well, some things I came across:
Deformity (Madness): It's a feat from Elder Evils. Taking it grants immunity to mind-affecting, and the nasty little benefit of being able to redirect such effects back at their source...
Sheltered Vitality: It's a spell that grants immunity to ability damage for a minute/caster level. Get a DMM: Persist Cleric to get it on the important monsters, and you can keep the benefit all day. Or get teams of War Weavers to cast Sheltered Vitality on all of the monsters at the beginning of combat. It restricts the number of monsters you can use, but is still a rather effective way of getting Purple Wurms into the fray. The Deformities can be added in later with Psychic Reformation.