PDA

View Full Version : So I rolled a 3



VaporGecko
2005-11-10, 02:13 AM
And now I want to play it! My GM offered me a re-roll, but gosh dangit I want to play the 3. But I also don't want to become too significant of an Achilles heel for the rest of the party, so I turn to you lot on how to deal with it's placement.

When I generate characters, Charisma is never my dump slot, Wisdom usually is (unless I'm playing a Divine character), but a 3 in Wisdom is a SIGNIFICANT problem. When I saw the three, I immediately looked towards teh spell casters for a class, I could dump it into one of the physical stats no problem and still be able to carry my weight. Here are all the stat rolls by the way:

3/10/11/11/13/13

So obviously I'm not going to be some ultimate power mage, and the cahracter will be above average in whatever he does, severely crippled in what he doesn't, and not that significant in everything else. I threw my stats around as follows, and built a human mage on top of them and gave him a name.

Agathos Daimon, the Game - Human - Wiz1
Str 10/--
Dex 3/-4
Con 11/--
Int 13/+1
Wis 11/--
Cha 13/+1

Feats:
Improved Initiative - He is physically handicapped, but has an amazing capacity to interpret suddenly changing events.
Iron Will - It was through sheer determination that he ever was able to move again.
Scribe Scroll - It's free with the Wizard class.

Here's the short backstory:

Agathos Daimon was born to weave mana. His master found an innate talent in the young lad, though coming from a farm background and with no real academy schooling, he possed a keen and quick acting mind. During his third year of apprenticeship, Agathos was caught in a horrific accident, cursed by a paralyzing spell most foul and far beyond the means of his master or the local clergy's ability to remedy. The young boy, only a mere 16 summers old, was informed he would be bed ridden the rest of his life, unable to move his arms or legs again.

Through an act of sheer willpower, or perhaps youthful stubbornness, Agathos was able to regain some facility of mobility again. How he did so is a mystery, but from that point on, he labored to find a cure with the help of his master and his library. A summer passed, and it soon grew evident that Agathos was weighing heavily on his master's charity. The wizard was not a bad man, but he thoroughly believed that any man's mistake was his own to fix by his own means. Agathos recognized his master's lack of the need for a crippled apprentice, and quickly arranged for his release from his tutelage.

The two went their separate ways, exchanging words of luck and good health, but before the young lad left, he asked one last thing of his master. He wished to be given a fresh tome, a symbol of his craft, and a title, so that he may be seen as a full mage by the people of the lands. The old wizard smiled and produced a book, scribing on the title page: "Young Agathos Daimon, the Game." With this last token of gratitude Agathos left on his quest to find a cure for his curse and a way to repay his master's charity.

So, is the character viable? Too much of a bother to even be an adventurer? Any suggestions on what should change/what spells to take?

SpiderBrigade
2005-11-10, 02:35 AM
I'd say viable so long as you have a party willing to keep your butt out of harm's way, and a DM who realizes that, numberswise, you are way under normal power. Standard point buy is I think 25 points. If you consider your "3" to be worth -5 points, you'd've spent all of 13 on your character.

In short, the character is full of flavorful goodness, and could be a lot of fun to RP, but is pretty darn weak. I may be a little bit prone to powergaming, but I'd consider 13 on the low end for a primary spellcasting stat. Without int-boosting magic, you'll never be able to cast 9th-level spells.

Seerow
2005-11-10, 02:39 AM
Maybe the DM could make the curse something that dramatically lowers all of his stats, and when he completes whatever quest to free it(around level 10-13 Id say), he gets to reroll all scores and keep the higher.

That might be a bit unfair to the other players, but if I were the DM I'd give it to him for sticking through that for 10 levels.

VaporGecko
2005-11-10, 02:42 AM
Well, he has a long life ahead of him, and pletny of wishes to make (assuming he can find rings of them).

Any suggestion spellwise? I thought about getting armor, but I figure it's quasi pointless since it would only get me up to the base 10. Maybe a dependance on illusions to keep him out of harms way?

idksocrates
2005-11-10, 02:48 AM
Is your group heavy rp oriented or battle oriented? Battle oriented... re-roll. Hands down. However, if its just rp oriented, then I would go with these. I'm a power gamer myself, and I probably wouldn't go with these, not because of the three, but because 13 is your highest stat. If I had at least a 15, I'd probably stick with it, but their just too low on average for my taste.

anyhoo... a 3 strength doesn't hurt a mage much. I would suggest getting a donkey though, because just holding your light crossbow will probably put you into a medium or heavy load. :P

Jades
2005-11-10, 02:50 AM
Summon stuff. "Oh, I'm so weak!" BAM! Suddenly the BBEG is surrounded by summoned creatures!

Umael
2005-11-10, 02:53 AM
When I first read that, I was thinking, "Yeah, so? That's still not as bad as you can get on a d20."

Then I realized you were talking about your ability...

Ye-ouch!

Well, if everyone is going to have fun with it...

kleedrac
2005-11-10, 02:53 AM
The last time I had a player who wanted to play his 3 with no 18's to back it up I allowed him to play his 3 on the condition that his highest single stat would become an 18 ... this would allow your wiz to be viable in my eyes.

Kleedrac

Gamebird
2005-11-10, 03:00 AM
Spells to avoid:
- Ones that require a to-hit roll, like most ray spells, touch spells, etc.

Spells to stack up on:
- Direct damage if the save puts the onus on the target, not on your ability to hit them.
- Battlefield control spells.
- Illusions and summonings.

Spells that aren't important to get or avoid:
- Charm spells (unless the campaign is suited for it)
- Stat enhancer spells (your stats already suck big time - no amount of low level enhancement will make much difference)
- Divinations - they can always be a help, but they rarely save your life.
- AC enhancers and self-modification spells - like divinations, these can be cool, but you're not playing to your strengths by having them. Your AC is going to suck horribly already, so just assume that you'll be hit every time something swings at you. Spending a spell so that your AC is a little better, but still not good enough that anything misses you, is no help at all and in fact is a wasted spell slot.

You should pick up Unseen Servant so you have a creature that can carry things you don't want dropped or broken. Also, it will be able to accomplish things with more dexterity than you have.

Spuddly
2005-11-10, 03:02 AM
Maybe ask your DM for a special, beefed up unseen servant spell you could have? Maybe longer duration, can move more stuff, do more complicated tasks, etc.

VaporGecko
2005-11-10, 03:19 AM
Well I could just fling out a Tenser's floating disk and be fine with the carrying stuff (100lbs for just as long as the Unseen servant lasts) problem if I took a 3 Str. Let's see, 3 strength gives me a 10/20/30 light/medium/heavy load. A spellbook and backpack is already 5 pounds. I don't even want to think about carrying food too. I would become dependant on hirelings/pack mules/spells to just move.

No, I'm thinking I'll stick with the crapshoot Dexterity and focus on Illusions, Evocations, and Summoning.

Right now I do not know what the orientation of the campaign or party will be. I'm hoping RP heavy since the DM emphasised character over stats in the e-mails I've shared with him, but who knows what will happen.

Thanks for all the discussion guys.

VaporGecko
2005-11-10, 03:25 AM
I'll see about the more complicated Unseen Servant, but really, wouldn't that make it a higher level then 1? I can see developing it over time however. Making it my favored spell and twinking it as my power grows (outside of using metamagic feats).

Rawhide
2005-11-10, 03:34 AM
You know, I've always wanted to play an elven mage with a con score of 1 (rolled 3, -2)...

SpiderBrigade
2005-11-10, 03:48 AM
You know, I've always wanted to play an elven mage with a con score of 1 (rolled 3, -2)...

Egads, that would be interesting. You'd have hit points exactly equal to your level, and a negative fort save basically forever.

Flavorwise, I'm imagining someone like the kids from Akira, or possibly Mutant # whatever from the second X-Men movie. Potent mental abilities, but a horribly wasted physical form...

Nikolai_II
2005-11-10, 03:49 AM
Spells to avoid:
- Ones that require a to-hit roll, like most ray spells, touch spells, etc.


Touch spells are ok, the to hit roll for melee touch attackes is based upon strength. Just don't buy weapon finesse ;)

-

Rawhide - minimum in a stat after modification is still 3. Sorry. (Get poisoned for ability drain and don't heal it instead ;))

Rawhide
2005-11-10, 04:18 AM
Nikolai II: Minimum INT is 3, all other stats can be lower (but not below 1, excluding some weird things such as an undead's nonexistent con score).

Hmm, 1d4-5 hit points per level = fun! Watch out DMs, you know what I'm playing if I roll a 3!

SolusTempus
2005-11-10, 06:00 AM
And said elf reaches middle aged for an elf, con scored drops one, and *thud* Or... 'The enememy cas magic missle on you, your'e at neg 2!' Amusing in concept, but negative con, particularly on a caster is a sure fire way to splat.

Rawhide
2005-11-10, 06:17 AM
Yep, it will be a very sickly elf, would need to rely on a lot of other tricks to stay alive. Oh, and I never said he would survive middle age, doubt he would actually get anywhere near close enough though.

Piotr
2005-11-10, 06:17 AM
With such stats you might want to try this idea I'he heard about some time ago. It is a sorcerer with extremely low Int score and a familiar. Familiar gains Int bonus with character's levels, so you would have much smarter familiar with empathic link.

cgoat
2005-11-10, 08:22 AM
Play a druid.

Once you hit 5th level your 3 won't matter cause you'll take the physical stats of the animal form of your choice.

Untill 5th level you can summon stuff to keep you out of harms way.

how ironic it could be that your crippled cause a tree fell on you and crushed your legs.

Plus you'll have your animal companion... lots of ride ranks.

I had a friend that played a cleric with a con of two. Every morning he'd cast cure disease on himself. Always had to rest because he would get winded so much. Unfortanly he was killed by another PC who tried to fireball out of webs the party was stuck in.

Gordon
2005-11-10, 08:59 AM
Egads, that would be interesting. You'd have hit points exactly equal to your level, and a negative fort save basically forever.



He's a good candidate for the minor artifact known as the Chair of Hawking. Its only real function is conferring Fast Healing 1 on its occupant and moving at a speed of 10.

"Eat Fi-erball, bi-itches... "

Hey, at least it's better than the Chair of Pike. ;)

Rawhide
2005-11-10, 09:02 AM
He's a good candidate for the minor artifact known as the Chair of Hawking. Its only real function is conferring Fast Healing 1 on its occupant and moving at a speed of 10.

"Eat Fi-erball, bi-itches... "

Hey, at least it's better than the Chair of Pike. ;)
Bring on the chair of Pike!

"The light blinks twice *beep*beep* and a large earth elemental appears infront of him."

Seffbasilisk
2005-11-10, 09:16 AM
Why not just get the handy haversack? It weights 5lbs and can hold up to 120lbs while still weighing only 5.

That lets you switch STR and DEX. A minus to AC from dex would really suck.

And DONT drop your constitution. In a campaign i'm running the level six sorceror has a constitution of 6. Seeing as there are vampires, poisons, and lots of other constitution killers....

ILM
2005-11-10, 10:21 AM
Dex 3 ? Make sure your DM isn't one to arbitrarily rule you don't have enough hand-eye coordination to make somatic components... ;)

The Prince of Cats
2005-11-10, 10:32 AM
In 2nd ed. I remember half the specialist mages needing 16 dex or so. Strength would be my dump-stat, then try to roleplay a reason for one of the other players to act as your pack-mule.

Serpitus
2005-11-10, 11:04 AM
I say play it! If for no other reason than to say you did. Put the 3 anywhere you like. Great RP potential.
Evil: "Awww look at the cripple we should give him money! Let's go over and hand him the gold." They get close and the invisible assassin stabbity! ::)

Valiant:"I need not your pity or your help! I will face this evil on even crippled legs, Who is with me?" :D

Pitifull: "The Gods cursed me, I am but a shell of a man, pity me lest you become the same" :'(

Sincere: " No children oyu should learn to accept your limitations and strive for the best that life can give you." :)

More and more and more: So many possiblities. Probably not for long but it would be fun. I say play it but have a ready made back up at all times. ;)

DeathQuaker
2005-11-10, 11:09 AM
From a roleplayer's perspective, I say go for playing what you like.

From a more strategic perspective, I also vote losing strength instead of dexterity if you are insisting on not doing the re-roll. A spellcaster needs armor class; a spellcaster does not need to be good at melee combat.

I would go for abjuration, conjuration, and transmutation spells myself--along with the requisite evocation spells most mages like to have in their spellbooks.

FlashFire
2005-11-10, 11:40 AM
I think that there's a lot of potential for fun here. I would put it in either STR or Dex... up to you (I lean towards STR here, if only to keep your AC up). You'll figure out other ways to have people carry things. And STR isn't tied to ANY saving throws.

The other stats are all fairly low, though. The good news is that with a 3 in one of your stats, you'll probably never need to worry about living long enough for the other things to be a worry. :-)

Rigeld
2005-11-10, 02:18 PM
I played a 1e/2e mixed campaign.. Rolled stats and got 18/3/17/10/11/14, We had to keep them in order.

Thad was a clumsy fighter.. he always used the bigger swords so that he couldnt fall on them as easily.

Inigo_Carmine
2005-11-10, 04:15 PM
Rawhide - minimum in a stat after modification is still 3. Sorry.

Actually, that only applies to Int.

Shatenjager
2005-11-10, 05:17 PM
In one campaign my DM let me have a ring of unseen servant. This effectively extends the duration almost indefinately. I'm not sure if it's legal by the books though.

WhiteMonkey
2005-11-10, 05:20 PM
I love your concept VaporGecko. I'm glad to see you're willing and wanting to play it.

While some groups have a tough time with this, often times groups are more than willing to help out the weaker character (particularly in a "rolled" attribute game).

I often prefer the under dog to the mega hero. I've mentioned before that my wife says I enjoy playing the Joxtor character.

And she's right. Joxtor (Xena Warrior Princess), Xander (Buffy the Vampire Slayer), That Guy with the Shield (Dungeons and Dragons Cartoon)... well, maybe not him; anyway, these guys are all just regular guys trying their best.

Sure, they're gonna die. They KNOW it. They just aren't cool enough to expect not to. But they've determined that not doing anything and living is worse than doing something and dieing, regardless of what nasty end awaits them.

CaptG1066
2005-11-10, 05:23 PM
RP opportunity from heaven:)

If you're not married to the idea of an arcane caster, try a cleric/druid build. There's no armor penalty for casting divine spells, so you can get a survivable AC regardless of the Dex penalty. Of course you'd still have to rely on your fellow party members to get around.

If you stick with the Wizard be sure to get Extended Spell metafeat. That way you can apply it to Unseen Servant & Tenser's Disc. Mage Hand is another very useful spell for your character's condition.

CaptG

Devils_Advocate
2005-11-10, 11:51 PM
Speaking purely from a powergaming perspective, I too would dump Strength. Not being able to carry a lot of stuff on your own isn't nearly as bad for a wizard as having virtually no reflexes, unless you see him as being fiercely independant. But if you actually want to play up being really weak in one area, then yeah, Dex could be good. Heck, if you really think of him as being "barely able to move" and not just reacting slowly, you could even give him a reduced movement rate, too. The only problem I see is that I don't see someone nigh-paralyzed being able to use somatic components normally.


Maybe the DM could make the curse something that dramatically lowers all of his stats, and when he completes whatever quest to free it(around level 10-13 Id say), he gets to reroll all scores and keep the higher.
I'd like to second something along these lines. Though if you want to stay with the backstory you constructed, it could just be Dex (or Str), not any other stats.

Because, really, it sounds like finding a cure for his condition would be one of this character's primary motivations. Even if he's largely given up on it now, he should be very eager to pursue possible solutions as they open up, which will happen as the group advances and gains access to more powerful stuff.

Maybe the GM could figure out what sort of effect your character would have to be under and what sort of spell would reverse it. (Nothing too easy, of course, so you'll get the chance to play out the disability for a while before it's fixed. Plus it's already given that it's not obviously curable in any way by low-level methods.) If the GM decides that independantly, so you don't even have out-of-character knowledge of the cure, it could become a real quest. And then that 3 could eventually get reset to 10, or even something higher that would bring you more in line with the group's power level. The backstory becomes even more tragic if your character was actually rather agile before the accident, although I don't know whether that's good or bad.

Just tossing out ideas.

VaporGecko
2005-11-11, 03:16 PM
I am really liking the idea of playing a Druid now. As it seems, I would be able to play my stats as is, and still be capable of carrying my weight in a fight when I need to. That and the GM informed me that he wants to provide a wizard character to anyone who wants to play one, as a plot device. So I think I will switch on over to Druid then.

But now what I need from you guys is a little back story into what Druids are. I'm completely unfamiliar with the class outside of what is obvious. They like the woods, cast spells, wear and equip natural gear. I'd still need a good excuse for the crippling effect. It can't be something like a falling tree, because if my legs where shattered they could (1) be fixed via magic, and (2) wouldn't effect my ability to wield a bow/throw weapons.

I'm loving all this input guys, keep it coming.

Damn, well my GM doesn't want druids either. I guess I'll be some manner of Cleric now. Turned to god because I'm a cripple... yeah. I'd still love to hear your ideas on any of these two possible characters (as a Druid or a Cleric). I might be able to convince the GM otherwise, and allow me to play a druid (just don't call him a druid).

Spuddly
2005-11-11, 03:24 PM
You were born a deformed cripple and your family left you in the woods. You were then raised by woodnypmhs or some druids or something.

Bierhoff
2005-11-11, 04:22 PM
I'd also vote to dump strength. with the weapon finesse feat you don't need strength for all that much more than carrying capacity. While dex gives you AC, reflex saves, initiative, and movement.

here's some other ideasto helpmake up for a lack of strength (and general physical capability)
-an untrained hireling can cost you as much as 1 sp/day. So you could get someone to carry your stuff for you.

-an ox is worth 15 gp (under alternate wealth) and a cart is also 15 gp. So, for a mere 30 gp you can make a sizeable contribution to the parties carrying capacity. or for 35 gp you can pickup a wagon.

-a goat is a mere 1gp, get a couple of sacks and toss them on your goat... and think of the added rp you could get out of a goat.

The_Werebear
2005-11-11, 04:27 PM
You could do a character in a wheelchair...

VaporGecko
2005-11-11, 06:31 PM
I already had a fine time discussing the idea of a Steven Hawkings of a wizard with my friends. Hilarity ensuied when I brought up the idea of using a wigi board to cast my spells with one hand, and my arm propped up by a stick to designate the target. Haha.. we are bad people.

Anyway, I'm not going for the wheelchair, but Spuddly's idea could work, though I would lose that motivation of regaining something I had lost. Still need to hammer out the idea of being a druid with my GM however.

Seffbasilisk
2005-11-11, 06:41 PM
actually about six months ago I went through a relevation so powerful it was neigh religious. You know how you sometimes get struck by an idea of the blindingly obvious? Well this got me. Very simple idea.


Bad stats make for better roleplaying

cgoat
2005-11-11, 06:52 PM
I had a druid that was a hippie. He used his vast knowledge of nature to collect the herbs and mushrooms also kept a nice collection of halfling pipe weed. Add on top of that a stoner surfer accent "whoa dude... these are some narly mushrooms"

Druids are a lot of work tho. I print up a spreadsheet of all my animal forms. And of course once they hit 8th level they become pretty powerfull. But the barbarian with the holy greatsword still does a lot more damage. Good offensive spells, produce flame, Call lightning and flame strike.

Mine tend to be true neutral. Balance in everything... survival of the fittest.

If Cleric I'd go with dwarven cleric... with a horrible intellegence. Clerics never have enough skills anyways.

Devils_Advocate
2005-11-11, 06:59 PM
I've seen it suggested that everything in The Lord of the Rings could have been done by level 3 characters. Conversely, if Gandalf had been a level 21+ wizard, he could have just easily telported them into Mount Doom so they could drop the ring in.

Wouldn't be terribly "epic", would it?

Having so much power that you can fix anything by waving your hand is certainly convenient, but it makes it difficult to be truly heroic.

CaptG1066
2005-11-11, 08:29 PM
But now what I need from you guys is a little back story into what Druids are. I'm completely unfamiliar with the class outside of what is obvious. They like the woods, cast spells, wear and equip natural gear. I'd still need a good excuse for the crippling effect. It can't be something like a falling tree, because if my legs where shattered they could (1) be fixed via magic, and (2) wouldn't effect my ability to wield a bow/throw weapons.

I'm loving all this input guys, keep it coming.


Hmm...
Mysterious (un)natural poision from a creature you only saw the one time.
Interfered with the summoning of a lesser diety & got thrashed for your trouble.

Umm... that's it really.... :(

gaymer_seattle
2005-11-12, 05:54 PM
We had one character start mid capaign, roughly 8th or 9th level. He came in older but richer. His downfall was his STR and DEX. He kept falling down every time he tried to climb, and if he got hit by something that drained strengtht he immediately collapsed in his own armor.

It made for great hilarity and more than one "I've fallen down and I can't get up" remark, and on one occassion I managed a flawless Grampa Simpson impression about "latex con-dome. I'd like to live in one of those".

The bets part was that no one humiliated him for his characters weaknesses. If anyone was trashed on, it was the power gamers trying to recreate their favorite Mortal Kombat character.

Belkarseviltwin
2005-11-13, 07:44 AM
Plus you'll have your animal companion... lots of ride ranks.

Yes, but you'll have to get another party member to tie you to your horse (or use a modified version of Entangle to do it). I doubt that someone with Dex 3 could stay mounted at any speed above a slow walk.

MMad
2005-11-14, 01:48 PM
Bad stats make for better roleplaying


I think I've realized this instinctively since I first started roleplaying. Most of my chars have been slightly odd, with obvious, glaring weaknesses, constantly dependant on other characters. If other players do the same, the group dynamics and interdependence make the game even more interesting, imho.

Anxe
2007-06-25, 11:29 PM
That's funny. Whenever I roll a 3 I always throw it into wisdom. That way your character can be super impulsive without being blamed for it. Gets you into some pretty funny situations.

Yechezkiel
2007-06-25, 11:33 PM
That's funny. Whenever I roll a 3 I always throw it into wisdom. That way your character can be super impulsive without being blamed for it. Gets you into some pretty funny situations.

Did you find the oldest post you possibly could, or are you in some weird Twilight Zone episode where your internet is 2 years ago?:smallsmile:

Corolinth
2007-06-25, 11:53 PM
If the sum total of a character's ability scores is 0 or less, or if the character's highest ability score is 13 or lower, the character is entitled to a reroll. It's on page 8 of the Player's Handbook. Just for reference.

When I first read the title of this thread, I figured you'd have a stat or two that was pretty good (law of averages being what it is) and was thinking, "Sweet! Rock that dump stat for some good times." Instead, I see you rolled a classic example of a "hit by a bus" character.

Give this character one hell of a personality, because he needs to be memorable. He can be awesome, but you're going to have to work really hard at it.

TheOOB
2007-06-26, 12:04 AM
Running a 3 in any ability except charisma is really hard. A penalty on charisma just means your poor at charisma based skills, a penalty on any other stats can serious impact your ability to function properly. While I relize that a difficult ability set can be interesting to role play, just make sure you arn't a liability to your team. You want to role play in a realistic fashion, and realistically someone who is really weak wouldn't be taken along on the team, if they even managed to survive training for their class.

Roland St. Jude
2007-06-26, 12:10 AM
Sheriff of Moddingham: Please don't...


Thread Necromancy
Bringing a thread back from ďthe dead.Ē If a thread has fallen to page three and hasnít been posted to in for a month and a half, donít post to it. Start a new topic if you want to discuss the subject.

Please review the Rules of Posting located at the top of every forum. Thank you!