Sheild-masher/Ghetto dungeoncrasher [PF]

[Doorhandle]

So there is this idea for a neat build that I have, but I'm not sure how to make it work.

http://img651.imageshack.us/img651/6857/46076421.jpg

http://www.buysam.com/GS/pictures/sb.jpg

Basically, it's a fusion fighter/barbarian, though I am not sure of the ratio of each, and I think I could go 100% barbarian if I’m willing to slow my feats.

The core of it revolves around 3 feats:
Raging throw, (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/raging-throw)which lets me add my con modifier to rolls for bull-rush, and to do bonus damage equal to my Con mod+Str mod if I bull-rush someone into a wall or another creature.

Shield slam (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/shield-slam-combat---final), which lets me bull-rush as a free-action as part of a shield-bash. So, I stand near a wall with the beastie in-between, and then pummel the crap out of it with my shield, doing weapon damage and the bull-rush damage every successful hit, and probably taking out a good chuck of wall while doing so.

And greater bull-rush, (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/greater-bull-rush-combat---final) so while I'm grinding foes into a fresh coating of red paint, a buddy can stand next to me and get a fecktonne of opportunity attacks.

Their prerequisites are also important both to get the feats and so I don't loose the shield bonus when doing all this bashing or take A.O.Es for bull-rushing.

Bull-rush strike (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/bull-rush-strike-combat) (bull-rush on a critical hit) and Bashing finish (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/bashing-finish-combat) (shield slam on critical hit...Which could potentially chain itself to infinity Hmmm....) are also feats I want, and thus so is improved critical (or perhaps just a keen shield?) Missile shield is also nice,(deflect things!) as is quick-bull rush (in case I want to push them normal, but it’s not as good as shield slam.)

For rage powers, the knockback, (replace 1 attack with a bull rush that does str mod damage) strength surge, reckless abandon (a.c penalty for attack bonus), guarded stance (A.C bonus that can be used with reckless abandon... don't ask me how) and the lethal accuracy chain (More to hit and crit bonuses WOO!) all jump out at me.

As for the shields themselves, Bashing would be ideal, and there is an armour-quality that lets you use righteous might on yourself, which is also nice. Any other good ideas?

So I need advice. What should the level-breakdown on this monster look like, and what A.C.F should I take? (earlest working point is Lv 6, assuming G.B.R is avoided.)

Questions: For feats like shield slam, do things that add to my C.M.B work, or does it have to my attack? So, would using strength-surge work?

If this is not the case, what are some good ways of increasing my attack bonus?

Can you dual-wield shields, so you can bash while you bash? If so, does their A.C stack?

Can a shield spike be enchanted separately form a shield?

Do shield-spikes and the bashing quality stack?

I'd prefer not to use 3.5 material if possible

[Cieyrin]

Spartans are all Fighter, probably Phalanx Soldiers or Shielded Fighters. Their discipline in battle is what gives them their edge over others, wherein Teamwork feats start coming in. Given you probably won't have a Phalanx to work with, that may be less ideal but just my thoughts on fluff origins.


Questions: For feats like shield slam, do things that add to my C.M.B work, or does it have to my attack? So, would using strength-surge work?

If this is not the case, what are some good ways of increasing my attack bonus?

It says attack instead of CMB, so you have to use it. It's generally easier to boost your attack bonus than CMB, especially if you go Shielded Fighter which specifically boosts shield bash bonuses.

You can boost shield bashes like any melee attack, like Inspire Courage, Bless, Haste, feinting, etc.


Can you dual-wield shields, so you can bash while you bash? If so, does their A.C stack?

You can dual wield shields, the shield bonuses don't stack, since shield bonuses don't normally.


Can a shield spike be enchanted separately form a shield?

Shield spikes change your shield into a spiked shield, they aren't separate parts of the same object, unlike armor spikes. There isn't any savings for doing so, anyways, so I don't know why people perpetuate the myth. Just piggyback off of the Bashing shield special ability's +1 weapon bonus for generating a magic weapon and you'll be doing good.


Do shield-spikes and the bashing quality stack?

Yes.

[Doorhandle]

-snip-

Excellent. 2d6 base damage isn't that bad.

Also, fluff isn't that relevant, I just used the spartan picture because it showed up when I looked up Sheild-bash.

If anything, the Sheild-masher would look like mr. Paloo (http://www.mangainn.com/manga/chapter/24981_mr-paloo/page_8)

edit: Gonna change the above image to Paloo there, god bless his narssisitc but really stupid-looking soul.

I actually think a ranger would be the true champion of this build. (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/ranger)A sword-and-sheild style ranger can get shield-slam as a bonus feat, negating most of the feat-intensive particulars, and allow nice things earlier, like raging vitality or extra rage. Better yet, a Wild-Stalker ranger can rage and get rage-powers (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/ranger/archetypes/paizo---ranger-archetypes/wild-stalker), meaning no multiclassing is needed, although I loose a combat-style feat to get uncanny dodge. Ultimately irrelevant, as for whatever stupid reason raging throw is not a combat feat and so cannot be taken as a bonus fighter feat, so I have to wait till level seven anyway, (although if my seventh level is fighter, I can take greater bull-rush to give my buddies A.o.Es)

[Lycar]

It says attack instead of CMB, so you have to use it. It's generally easier to boost your attack bonus than CMB, especially if you go Shielded Fighter which specifically boosts shield bash bonuses.
Uhm, don't forget that everything that boosts your attack bonus also applies to your CMB. For example, the shield bash would not benefit from the enhancement bonus of the shield, but a morale bonus from Inspire Courage would count, as any other bonus that you can add to your attack bonus.

If you use a weapon to trip, disarm or sunder, the enhancement bonus of the weapon adds to your CMB too. If you make that disarm attempt with a weapon with the 'Disarm' tag, add +2 on top of that.

[Cieyrin]

Uhm, don't forget that everything that boosts your attack bonus also applies to your CMB. For example, the shield bash would not benefit from the enhancement bonus of the shield, but a morale bonus from Inspire Courage would count, as any other bonus that you can add to your attack bonus.

If you use a weapon to trip, disarm or sunder, the enhancement bonus of the weapon adds to your CMB too. If you make that disarm attempt with a weapon with the 'Disarm' tag, add +2 on top of that.

That's what my second sentence, after you stopped the quote, went on to say.

As for Raging Throw not being a Combat feat, none of the rage requiring feats are. It made me pull out hair trying to figure out how to get Furious Finish on a Barbarian in a timely manner. :smallannoyed:

[Lycar]

That's what my second sentence, after you stopped the quote, went on to say.

:smalleek: ... sorry, it was late at night. :smallredface:

[Crasical]

Bull-rush strike (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/bull-rush-strike-combat) (bull-rush on a critical hit) and Bashing finish (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/bashing-finish-combat) (shield slam on critical hit...Which could potentially chain itself to infinity Hmmm....)

I want to know what it would take Bashing Finish to go infinite, now.

[Doorhandle]

Nothing you could do in pathfinder, as none of their crit-improving abilites stack.

In 3.5... maybe. If somone makes that build, I insist you call it "TWO FOR FLINCHING!"

edit: Alright, some more things.

I just noted something else to improve this build’s awesome exponentially.

Eventually, the build goanna have full TWF, in order to get maximum chance for shield-slams, and critical bashings/bull rushing, right? And various feats decrese our pentalty for TWF with sheilds.

Look at these shields, (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/magic-armor/specific-magic-shields/lion-s-shield) and despair, for we can (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/magic-armor/specific-magic-shields/bloodfeast-shield)wield both of them at once (at a huge penalty, but still).

Suffice to say, the only question I have is “Can we improved upon unique items?”

In other news, shielded-combat ranger is clearly the way to go for feats, as shield slam requires 6+ Bab and room for feats we don’t have. I would choose wild stalker for the rage, but it gets NO combat style feats and that why we are TAKING ranger levels. Also, probably won’t actually take an animal companion, as it will have all of 6 levels to it’s name even if I do take this feat which adds to my effective druid level for this purpose.Also, Not sure how many levels of ranger/fighter and how many of barbarian; Ranger gets feats much more slowly but allows us to avoid prerequisites, but shielded fighters let us use our shield’s blocking enchantment as it’s weapon enchantment. Never mind, shield mastery lets us do this anyway and we can get it upon our 6th ranger level. Plus we need it anyway for bashing finish. WOHOO!

Should I go for greater rage or tireless rage? The bonuses are nice but barbarian levels get in the way of our feats. Also, by taking desert mastery, 3 levels of horizon walker would let me effectively have the benefits of tireless rage early: should I do this?