The Walking Dead

[Rake21]

I download the first episode yesterday on Xbox Live, and I gotta say, Telltale Games did an awesome job.

The writing was pretty good, as were the voice actors. I liked, or at least enjoyed, all the charecters. Lee, the PC, was especially good, and even the Newt stand in wasn't all that annoying.

On top of that, there were some really big choices that look like they'll completly change what happens in the later episodes. A few were also pretty gut wrenching.

Oh, and the zombie kills were as brutal as you'd expect.

All in all, I really enjoyed the game. Well worth the $5 I spent on it.

Did anyone else give it a try? What'd you think? Mark any spoilers.

[psilontech]

Not as good as the comic, but much much better than the television show.

Did ANYONE here try to save the idiot child? I didn't get anything that led to his death even while picking against him.

[JadedDM]

How would you rate it against Back to the Future the Game, in terms of gameplay?

Because while I loved the atmosphere, story and voice acting of BttF the game, it was really more of an interactive show than a game (you couldn't even fail and it was very linear).

[Tyndmyr]

How would you rate it against Back to the Future the Game, in terms of gameplay?

Because while I loved the atmosphere, story and voice acting of BttF the game, it was really more of an interactive show than a game (you couldn't even fail and it was very linear).

I was very disappointed in it's gameplay. It's like someone saw "press x to not die", and thought, man, that's kind of tough. Let's tone it back a notch.

[Rake21]

How would you rate it against Back to the Future the Game, in terms of gameplay?

Because while I loved the atmosphere, story and voice acting of BttF the game, it was really more of an interactive show than a game (you couldn't even fail and it was very linear).

It's a point n' click style game, which seems to be Telltale's main product. You can die, gruesomely at times, but it's pretty easy not to.

It's, like you described, more like an interactive show where your choices dictate the plot and charecters.

[JadedDM]

Oh, yeah, I figured it would be point and click, being Telltale and all. But I am glad to hear it's actually possible to die, especially since it's a zombie game and all.

Actually, let me phrase it this way. If I were to just watch a Let's Play on youtube instead of actually playing the game myself, is anything lost from the experience?

[psilontech]

Actually, let me phrase it this way. If I were to just watch a Let's Play on youtube instead of actually playing the game myself, is anything lost from the experience?

They might make decisions you don't agree with and you won't get to see the consequences of the actions YOU wished to make.

But if you just want to see the general storyline for a single string of decisions, you would probably be good watching a LP.

[JadedDM]

Oh, okay. So there are different outcomes for different choices? That sounds a lot better than then. I might check it out then...once I make some headway through this massive game backlog of mine.

[Tyndmyr]

Oh, yeah, I figured it would be point and click, being Telltale and all. But I am glad to hear it's actually possible to die, especially since it's a zombie game and all.

Actually, let me phrase it this way. If I were to just watch a Let's Play on youtube instead of actually playing the game myself, is anything lost from the experience?

Not really. Almost all of the choices lead to the exact same places. Some of them change dialog and such a bit. If you choose "wrong", you usually end up back at the same prompt to choose again. Equipment is not kept, so after things like your single shotgun blast, you discard the shotgun(because who wants to have a shotgun in a zombie apoc, right?). This all happens in cutscenes, and you kind of have to work at it to die. I haven't seen anyone die yet, and this includes deliberately trying to.

[Rake21]

Not really. Almost all of the choices lead to the exact same places. Some of them change dialog and such a bit. If you choose "wrong", you usually end up back at the same prompt to choose again. Equipment is not kept, so after things like your single shotgun blast, you discard the shotgun(because who wants to have a shotgun in a zombie apoc, right?). This all happens in cutscenes, and you kind of have to work at it to die. I haven't seen anyone die yet, and this includes deliberately trying to.

Actually, the "wrong" choices seemed to add up to either Lee getting killed or the little girl getting killed. Everything else is your choice.

As for the shutgun, he'd used the only he shell he could find and there are a ****load of zombies. I can understand dropping it.

[Tyndmyr]

Actually, the "wrong" choices seemed to add up to either Lee getting killed or the little girl getting killed. Everything else is your choice.

As for the shutgun, he'd used the only he shell he could find and there are a ****load of zombies. I can understand dropping it.

He's literally at a cop car. The idea that there is only one shell is ludicrous. Also, you have no option to do anything like "look through the car" before going over and putting your face by the obviously going to be a zombie. Hell, you can't even pick up the shotgun obviously lying on the ground before that.

I tried doing a few things like seeing if I could eventually kick the zombie in the house to death without accepting the hatchet...no joy. Apparently dozens of kicks to the face do nothing.

It's not that ditching the gun is unreasonable. It's that keeping the gun is also reasonable(and possibly more so). It's that none of your choices actually matter.

[ShellBullet]

It's that none of your choices actually matter.

it's first episode out of six, I think we should reserve our judgment until all episodes have been released.


He's literally at a cop car. The idea that there is only one shell is ludicrous.

Police officer might have used rest of bullets or there might be more in car, but the situation didn't really allow long time search. You could hear shooting when you wake up in police car.

[Tyndmyr]

it's first episode out of six, I think we should reserve our judgment until all episodes have been released.

Bad is bad. If a game is bad, I don't buy the sequels. Why on earth should I reserve judgement. If it's not worth the cost, why should I pay them more money for another game?


Police officer might have used rest of bullets or there might be more in car, but the situation didn't really allow long time search. You could hear shooting when you wake up in police car.

Except...none of that makes any sense. The shooting you hear is distant. The cop is apparently thrown from the car and killed by the crash. There are no empty shells about or other signs of the shotgun being used.

And none of that explains why you literally can't pick up the shotgun until after putting your face next to the zombie.

[Kudaku]

He's literally at a cop car. The idea that there is only one shell is ludicrous. Also, you have no option to do anything like "look through the car" before going over and putting your face by the obviously going to be a zombie. Hell, you can't even pick up the shotgun obviously lying on the ground before that.


Except...none of that makes any sense. The shooting you hear is distant. The cop is apparently thrown from the car and killed by the crash. There are no empty shells about or other signs of the shotgun being used.

And none of that explains why you literally can't pick up the shotgun until after putting your face next to the zombie.

A better question is: Why do you want to pick up the shotgun in the first place?

[Tyndmyr]

A better question is: Why do you want to pick up the shotgun in the first place?

I'm being drug off to prison by the cops for a crime I didn't commit. On this drive, I've seen all manner of straight up horror movie stuff, and a ludicrous amount of cops drive towards Atlanta. Then some creepy looking dude stumbled out in front of mean and we hit him. Cops dead.

Why WOULDNT I want the shotgun?

Cmon, give me a scenario in which getting the handcuffs off and pocketing the 12ga shell are reasonable, but taking the shotgun is not.

[Maxios]

Actually
you did commit the crime.

[Tyndmyr]

*shrug* Be that as it may, it doesn't make me want to grab the shotgun less.

[Kudaku]

As has already been mentioned, Lee did in fact kill someone. If it was actual murder or what the circumstances were are a bit hazy though.

As for te rest of your post, I'd strongly recommend you replay the first 5 minutes or watch a let's play. Either you're intentionally twisting what happens to suit your argument or its simply been a while since you played it. Based on Lee not having killed someone I'm guessing it's the latter.

[Kudaku]

As has already been mentioned, Lee did in fact kill someone. If it was actual murder or what the circumstances were are a bit hazy though.

As for te rest of your post, I'd strongly recommend you replay the first 5 minutes or watch a let's play. Either you're intentionally twisting what happens to suit your argument or its simply been a while since you played it. Based on Lee not having killed someone I'm guessing it's the latter.

[Buwh]

It pretty much explicitly says the cop wasn't thrown from the car.

[Tyndmyr]

As has already been mentioned, Lee did in fact kill someone. If it was actual murder or what the circumstances were are a bit hazy though.

As for te rest of your post, I'd strongly recommend you replay the first 5 minutes or watch a let's play. Either you're intentionally twisting what happens to suit your argument or its simply been a while since you played it. Based on Lee not having killed someone I'm guessing it's the latter.

The first five minutes, in mine, involved the cop saying he figured I didn't do it. I had plenty of options to say, none of which mattered, and at least some of which conflicted with other options. I have no idea what the true "truth" is. However, it's kind of irrelevant to issues like not being able to pick up certain items until after cutscenes.

As for if the cop is thrown or not...it's kind of irrelevant. Post-crash, you obviously assume he's dead. He's certainly not helpful. Also, everything is certainly terrible. The option to pick up a gun at that point makes sense. The option to have a gun on the ground that you magically can't pick up makes no sense.

[Kudaku]

The first five minutes, in mine, involved the cop saying he figured I didn't do it. I had plenty of options to say, none of which mattered, and at least some of which conflicted with other options. I have no idea what the true "truth" is. However, it's kind of irrelevant to issues like not being able to pick up certain items until after cutscenes.

The dialogue options revolving around the murder and how Lee talks about it is more about how Lee wants to present himself to the world than about what "truly" happened. The way most people interpret it is essentially that there was "a killing", which is not necessarily the same as a murder. Various theories discuss if it was self-defense, manslaughter (ie an unintended killing, such as dying from an accidental fall during a fight) and so on. From the way Lee comes across in the game I personally have a hard time seeing him kill someone in cold blood, but I am told the "*******" gameplay makes him come across a lot less likeable.


As for if the cop is thrown or not...it's kind of irrelevant. Post-crash, you obviously assume he's dead. He's certainly not helpful. Also, everything is certainly terrible. The option to pick up a gun at that point makes sense. The option to have a gun on the ground that you magically can't pick up makes no sense.

This is what I called you on earlier - you discuss how the character sees all these horrible things before the car crash and has every reason to want to arm himself. Thing is, though: He doesn't. What he does see is police cars and one police helicopter responding to a riot in the downtown center miles away, and one person walking in the highway in the split second before the car crashes and he blacks out.

When he comes through he still has no idea there is a "zombie invasion scenario" going on. His main motivation is to get help for himself and the policeman, who is obviously either dead or badly injured - he specifically comments that he wants to remove his cuffs because it will make it easier to carry the policeman.

The weak point here is that he does pocket the shotgun shell, but this is explainable in that he has no pressing reason not to pick up the shell. If anything it might be argued as responsible not to leave live ammunition lying next to a potentially explosive car wreck.

However, he has three entirely valid reasons to leave the shotgun alone.

The first is that if the policeman is actually still conscious and still has his sidearm, rolling over and seeing Lee stand over him with a shotgun is a situation that could get very ugly very fast.

The second is that carrying a shotgun and carrying the policeman at the same time would be unnecessarily heavy and awkward, especially since the shotgun doesn't have a carrying strap.

The third is that Lee is a convicted felon- it is illegal for him to handle a firearm. Since at the time of the accident Lee has no reason to believe that the system is about to break down completely, it makes sense that he doesn't want to risk getting a few years added to his sentence - especially since he has no pressing need for a shotgun at the time.

[Starbuck_II]

The dialogue options revolving around the murder and how Lee talks about it is more about how Lee wants to present himself to the world than about what "truly" happened. The way most people interpret it is essentially that there was "a killing", which is not necessarily the same as a murder. Various theories discuss if it was self-defense, manslaughter (ie an unintended killing, such as dying from an accidental fall during a fight) and so on. From the way Lee comes across in the game I personally have a hard time seeing him kill someone in cold blood, but I am told the "*******" gameplay makes him come across a lot less likeable.


I think Lee killed someone in hot blood, like in an arguement/girlfriend cheated type deal, he doesn't seem type to cold blooded kill.

[Mixt]

I have gone through it a few times and what i got out of it was this.

Lee's wife cheated on him with a United States Senator.
So Lee shot the filthy politician dead.

Hence why it was such a big trial and everyone made such a fuss about it, it was a bloody US Senator he killed.

Bleeding politicians going around sleeping with people's wives, it was only a matter of time before someone put a bullet in him, Lee just happened to be the one who did it.


As for the rest, handling a shotgun while handcuffed is easier said than done, and afterwards he was probably panicking and trying to get the hell away from the walking corpses coming from every direction, he probably wasn't thinking clearly there. Also, he just used the only shell he had, and a gun with no ammo is not going to do you much good.

[hobbitkniver]

Does anyone know when the next episode will be released? They said every month, so they've got a solid 5 days left this month and haven't even mentioned a release date, so I doubt it'll happen.

[JadedDM]

According to Telltale's blog, it isn't being released until sometime in June.

Read the last sentence in the second paragraph. (http://www.telltalegames.com/community/blogs/id-969)

[Tyndmyr]

The dialogue options revolving around the murder and how Lee talks about it is more about how Lee wants to present himself to the world than about what "truly" happened. The way most people interpret it is essentially that there was "a killing", which is not necessarily the same as a murder. Various theories discuss if it was self-defense, manslaughter (ie an unintended killing, such as dying from an accidental fall during a fight) and so on. From the way Lee comes across in the game I personally have a hard time seeing him kill someone in cold blood, but I am told the "*******" gameplay makes him come across a lot less likeable.

*shrug* I make no guarantees about what actually happened...but taking different dialog paths seems to be entirely irrelevant to the situation you find yourself in afterward.


This is what I called you on earlier - you discuss how the character sees all these horrible things before the car crash and has every reason to want to arm himself. Thing is, though: He doesn't. What he does see is police cars and one police helicopter responding to a riot in the downtown center miles away, and one person walking in the highway in the split second before the car crashes and he blacks out.

I believe there was also a forboding glimpse of people walking zombie fashion prior to the crash. Sure, he might well not expect zombies specifically, but it's pretty clear that the general environment is messy and dangerous. Shotgun for that = good idea.


When he comes through he still has no idea there is a "zombie invasion scenario" going on. His main motivation is to get help for himself and the policeman, who is obviously either dead or badly injured - he specifically comments that he wants to remove his cuffs because it will make it easier to carry the policeman.

The weak point here is that he does pocket the shotgun shell, but this is explainable in that he has no pressing reason not to pick up the shell. If anything it might be argued as responsible not to leave live ammunition lying next to a potentially explosive car wreck.

Nah. Ammo outside of a gun is not really that big a deal. Also, the idea that there was only one shell is a bit ludicrous. There almost certainly has to be more inside the car or scattered elsewhere nearby.

There's absolutely no reason to pick up the shotgun shell that couldn't also apply to the shotgun. Leaving firearms around could also be described as irresponsible.


However, he has three entirely valid reasons to leave the shotgun alone.

The first is that if the policeman is actually still conscious and still has his sidearm, rolling over and seeing Lee stand over him with a shotgun is a situation that could get very ugly very fast.

That could happen regardless, due to the fact that he could be mistaken for escaping.

But yknow, I don't care what Lee thinks. I'm playing the game. I want to be Lee, and make the decision for myself. That's what makes it a game instead of a movie


The second is that carrying a shotgun and carrying the policeman at the same time would be unnecessarily heavy and awkward, especially since the shotgun doesn't have a carrying strap.

Is never mentioned. And doesn't explain why he tosses it away after he realizes that it IS a zombie apocalypse.


The third is that Lee is a convicted felon- it is illegal for him to handle a firearm. Since at the time of the accident Lee has no reason to believe that the system is about to break down completely, it makes sense that he doesn't want to risk getting a few years added to his sentence - especially since he has no pressing need for a shotgun at the time.

He's going to jail for murder. That, especially in a high profile case, equals a ridiculous sentence. "extra time" is entirely irrelevant, since you only get one lifetime regardless.

Also, picking up a shotgun while cuffed would be quite doable.

[Starbuck_II]

*
Nah. Ammo outside of a gun is not really that big a deal. Also, the idea that there was only one shell is a bit ludicrous. There almost certainly has to be more inside the car or scattered elsewhere nearby.

Maybe it was in the car but you don't have a way to search it as it was crashed. And oif in trunk, you lack key.


There's absolutely no reason to pick up the shotgun shell that couldn't also apply to the shotgun. Leaving firearms around could also be described as irresponsible.

True, at that point it might be useful, but carrying things in handcuffs isn't easy, you ever been in hancuffs? I can tell you not easy, the pain alone (very unconfortable and painful)

He should have kept the keys though, almost every handcuff uses same key in America nowadays.

[Kudaku]

I believe there was also a forboding glimpse of people walking zombie fashion prior to the crash. Sure, he might well not expect zombies specifically, but it's pretty clear that the general environment is messy and dangerous. Shotgun for that = good idea.
There certainly are signs that the general environment is dangerous, he was just in a car crash! However there are no signs of any kind of zombie event happening up until the split second before they hit the walker, who could just as well have been a confused person walking on the interstate. Quite simply, he has no reason to pick up a shotgun.

Nah. Ammo outside of a gun is not really that big a deal. Also, the idea that there was only one shell is a bit ludicrous. There almost certainly has to be more inside the car or scattered elsewhere nearby.
You really do need to watch a video of the scene or replay it. Zombies show up literally seconds after Lee shoots the policeman, there was never a time window to go scrounging for gear. Lee climbs over the fence to Clementine just in time to not get eaten.

There's absolutely no reason to pick up the shotgun shell that couldn't also apply to the shotgun. Leaving firearms around could also be described as irresponsible.
This ties into what I talked about earlier. Convicted felon and all. I'll explain it in more detail later on.

That could happen regardless, due to the fact that he could be mistaken for escaping.
Wouldn't it make more sense for him to be moving away from the policeman instead of helping him if he is escaping? Even if the cop does think Lee is trying to escape after ransacking him, the fact that he's badly injured and clearly unarmed should work as some kind of deterrent for you know, not shooting him. Bleeding prisoner standing over you with a shotgun on the other hand, yeah... That sounds like a preemptive self defense shot to me.

But yknow, I don't care what Lee thinks. I'm playing the game. I want to be Lee, and make the decision for myself. That's what makes it a game instead of a movie
I think this is where we differ. You want Lee to make whatever decisions you want to make.

I want Lee to make whatever decisions I want to make that makes sense within the premise of the game.

Obviously you get to choose how Lee acts, but the options for how Lee acts need to make sense, or at the very least not be actively stupid. Picking up a shotgun for no apparent reason when you're badly injured, just was in a car crash, and have an injured policeman next to you makes no sense.

To borrow a term from the roleplaying forums, I think you're metagaming. You know Lee's in a zombie game, you know that shotgun is probably going to come in handy, and when you bend down to pick up those keys by the cop's mouth you know damn well something unpleasant is going to happen. So do I, so do most of the people who played this game. Thing is though, Lee doesn't know any of this. And that's part of why gaming it out at the start is painful - your character will do the mistakes that are obvious to people who read zombie books, watch zombie movies and played zombie games. Because your character doesn't have that experience and knowledge.

Is never mentioned. And doesn't explain why he tosses it away after he realizes that it IS a zombie apocalypse.
I think this is the third time I've said it in this thread alone, but you really do need to watch or play the start again. Lee has seen a cop who he thought was badly injured or dead attack him and acted in self-defense. He is traumatized, scared out of his mind, and has no idea how to process what just happened.
Watch his face immediately after he shot the cop, as he throws away the shotgun: He's processing that he just killed another human being. An immediate feeling of aversion to the murder weapon in a situation like that is not surprising, nor unreasonable.

Secondly he knows the shotgun is empty, and it's not like he's throwing it into the local pond never to get it again. Had he had more time by the police car to process, to think things through, to search his environment he would have had every opportunity to pick it up again. Unfortunately, he gets swarmed by more zombies pretty much immediately after the gunshot (and the shouting) and never has a chance to go through the police car for ammunition, first aid supplies, or some communications equipment.

Thirdly I still feel like you're going into this with a zombie survivor mentality that's nowhere near developed in Lee's head. Lee just saw one policeman, possibly dead (which would seem incredibly unlikely to someone who was just exposed to his first reanimation) or possibly just severely injured attack him. He has no way of knowing that this is a wide-spread phenomena or that he needs to arm himself. His first instinct when he sees anyone is to shout for help.

He's going to jail for murder. That, especially in a high profile case, equals a ridiculous sentence. "extra time" is entirely irrelevant, since you only get one lifetime regardless.
To the best of my knowledge we don't know what kind of sentence Lee got for his crime. Considering it appears to be a crime of passion and that the politician was sleeping with his wife, the actual time spent in jail could vary wildly.
Secondly even if he got an arbitrary amount of years and an additional 15 years (or whatever) for illegal weapon possession wouldn't put a scratch in his paint, Lee seems to be a decent guy who got put in jail for something that got out of control. It's not entirely surprising that his first instinct might be to follow the law.

Also, picking up a shotgun while cuffed would be quite doable.
Picking it up? Sure. Using it reliably? Not a chance. It would also make his hands completely useless for anything other than holding onto the shotgun.

[Tyndmyr]

Maybe it was in the car but you don't have a way to search it as it was crashed. And oif in trunk, you lack key.

True, at that point it might be useful, but carrying things in handcuffs isn't easy, you ever been in hancuffs? I can tell you not easy, the pain alone (very unconfortable and painful)

He should have kept the keys though, almost every handcuff uses same key in America nowadays.

I have, yeah. Locked myself in a set as a kid, and they turned out to be real ones(who leaves those in a toybox?) had to have the fire dept tear em off.

Would agree. A key is sufficiently light that there's no reason not to keep it. Hell, even keeping the handcuffs might be reasonable. It's kind of normal for adventure games to keep whatever gear you can.


There certainly are signs that the general environment is dangerous, he was just in a car crash! However there are no signs of any kind of zombie event happening up until the split second before they hit the walker, who could just as well have been a confused person walking on the interstate. Quite simply, he has no reason to pick up a shotgun.

Why not? Why can't I be the type of person who is?

There's a name for things in which all the decisions are made for you, and you are simply told what kind of person someone is. That name is movie, not game.


You really do need to watch a video of the scene or replay it. Zombies show up literally seconds after Lee shoots the policeman, there was never a time window to go scrounging for gear. Lee climbs over the fence to Clementine just in time to not get eaten.

I didn't say after shooting, now did I? You have an arbitrarily long period of time before investigating the policeman. You can't actually do much of anything in that time, though.

Also, I *love* that everyone keeps trying to nitpick at inaccuracies that are not actually present in the words I'm saying. Look back over what I said. I stated first "murder I didn't do", and indeed, that is exactly what you get from the dialog. Saying "but he IS a killer" does not disprove my statement. Ditto for this instance.



Wouldn't it make more sense for him to be moving away from the policeman instead of helping him if he is escaping?

Keys, dude. He doesn't want handcuffs on forever.

That said, yes, the option to just run without fixing handcuffs there might have been a nice option, even if it did lead to rapid death.



Obviously you get to choose how Lee acts, but the options for how Lee acts need to make sense, or at the very least not be actively stupid. Picking up a shotgun for no apparent reason when you're badly injured, just was in a car crash, and have an injured policeman next to you makes no sense.


Part of games is the ability to choose wrong and fail.

That said, picking up a gun if you're a wanted murderer and then running like hell is not an unrealistic option. Running from the law, while armed, is something murderers do all the time, when the opportunity presents itself.

[Kudaku]

Stuff

Suffice to say, we have different views on this and I don't see that changing anytime soon - let's just agree to disagree.


In other news, anyone else excited to see part 2 come out? At launch they were said to come out once a month and so far they're slightly behind schedule... I for one can't wait! :smallsmile:

[Rake21]

Episode 2 is now for sale.

Did you like the first one? Then you'll definatly enjoy this one, too.

It's got some tough choices and some really hectic moments. I highly recomend it.