Break points for a Factotum Dip

[Rickshaw]

Hey playground! got a gestalt build, and I'm going ro-gish (heh heh see what i did there?) on one side, and I'm going to take some levels of Factotum on the other side. Just wondering what people's opinions on what Level to stop dipping in Factotum, or if I should go the full 20 lvls (though realistically the Campaign probably wont make it that far.)

[Lostbutseeking]

The most powerful ability is at 8. Although 3 for int to initiative is not too shabby either.

[Salanmander]

Yeah, 3 and 8 are basically the breakpoints. A case can be made for a single-level dip, for +int to attack roll or saving throw (seriously, does anyone use it for damage?) 2/encounter, but brains over brawn is almost always nice enough to take another 2 levels for.

If you go up to 8, you're basing a fair amount of your build around factotum, and you're probably going to want several fonts of inspiration, because extra standard actions are great, but take lots of inspiration.

It's also definitely not bad to continue beyond 8. You keep getting more inspiration, and the 13 and 19 abilities are nice for anyone, 11 can be very nice for casters, and 16 is very nice for melee types. At some point you'll probably want to at least dip something else, because 20 is...lackluster.

[Rickshaw]

3 was what I was thinking too, just wanted to make sure.
I'm trying to go for the skill monkey-est build I can. In a low-op group, Damage isn't super important since any old well build teir 3 can keep up. ^^

[killianh]

if it wasn't gestalt 8 would be the better break point, but for everything that factotum can grant you would be better stopping at 3 and moving into beguiler

[Waker]

What classes were you thinking about taking aside from Rogue and Factotum? That may have some slight impact on what everyone says, but I will agree with most others that 3 or 8 are the best.

[Rickshaw]

I was gonna go the daring outlaw route and take swashbuckler/rogue on the other side

[Dictum Mortuum]

Actually Cunning Breach is alright, too, if you can combine it in a chameleon or ur-priest build.

[Deox]

Factotum / Chameleon could be worthwhile; Possibly Warlock...


For the class itself, I found it's either 3, 8 or 19 levels long for my uses.

[Bloodgruve]

Factotum 8 with Font of Inspirations is just amazing. Getting extra standard actions is just great. Cast extra spells per turn without quicken. Get some extra movement and attacks. Gain the ability to buff up without wasting turns. Its hard to go wrong.

GL
Blood~

[Rubik]

If you're not gestalting with a caster I'd say 3 and 8 are the best break-points. If you've got wizard, archivist, or psion on that second side, then 11 is the best (especially if you're planning on heading into epic). Direct damage is about the only way to kill epic critters, and they've got really high SR, which you can just flat-out IGNORE.

Exxxcellent.

And if you're starting at really high level, 19 is awesome, 'cuz now you can use high level Ex class abilities all over the place.

[StreamOfTheSky]

for +int to attack roll or saving throw (seriously, does anyone use it for damage?)

I have. When you have lots of fonts of inspirations for more points than you need in small fights, and are using a x3 or x4 crit weapon, applying it to a confirmed crit (you'd know before it came time to roll damage) can be a nice little damage boost (it's not dice damage, so it multiplies, Int 20 = +15 damage on a x3 crit). D&D's all about critical existence failure. An enemy fights at 100% capacity till its dead. It can easily be worth a point to help ensure that something is reduced to 0% capacity instead of remaining at 100%.

[Heatwizard]

It's also definitely not bad to continue beyond 8. You keep getting more inspiration, and the 13 and 19 abilities are nice for anyone, 11 can be very nice for casters, and 16 is very nice for melee types. At some point you'll probably want to at least dip something else, because 20 is...lackluster.

If you're going to commit to Factotum 19, though, you might as well ride it unbroken to 19 and then jump out at the very end, so you get the capstone a level sooner. Supposing you even make it to 20, anyway.

[Amphetryon]

While Factotum 8 and 19 are pretty beefy, I think they're too much of an investment to properly be called "dips". Thus, I'll join the chorus of "Factotum 3" recommendations.