Epic level 20 tristalt character.

[Lonewolfe208]

Hello everyone, I am looking for a semi-optimized level 20 tristalt character, I want a really diverse and strong caster. I'm also open to almost any suggestions you guys make.

[Dictum Mortuum]

Factotum//Wizard//Archivist

Pretty fun and straightforward. Pick whatever feats you want or just a buttload of Font of Inspiration.

Bard//Sorcerer//Favored Soul

Charisma madness.

Bard//Druid//Marshal

Summoner/buffer... just summon some animals and buff them with inspire courage/marshal auras.

[dantiesilva]

Paladin/Rogue/Ranger Though not as diverse you can stack your smite and sneak attack, add in your favored enemy damage and have your animal companion and special mount stack. At level 4 take natrul bond and you have a animal companion of druid level and you are all set, sure not strong on spells, but at level one under perfect situation 3+str ( weapon damage+1+1d6+2)

Now if you are typical paladin that is a greatsword so BAB+cha+2 ( 2d6+1+1d6+2+2xstr) that is a lot of damage at level one. Plus it opens up one of my favorite Prc's Shadowbane Inquister which stacks with paladin levels if you go blackguard, increase your smiting and increase your sneak attack, as well as a whole bunch of other fun abilities.

At level 5 you stop taking paladin and take shadowbane inquister fully.
So rogue 15/ paladin 5/ranger 15/Shadowbane inquister 10

Now take into consideration that you don't have much casting like you want but anything within 70ft of you takes 4d6 damage every single turn. Also correct me if I'm wrong I believe you can only take one perstiage class at a time. Last 5 levels being Blackguard/Dread necro/ and cleric now you have decent casting about 9 smite attempts a day, +6 or more damage against first favored enemy and close to 15d6 sneak attack damage, use dread necro spells to buff or summon meat shields, and cleric to do everything else. Not as effective as the Wizard/Factorum/Archievist in any shape form or way, but with mine you can kill just about any spell caster that makes you mad. ACF for ranger Favored enemy archievist means you are good at hunting and killing magic users. The mage slayers feats which give you many abilities against magic users, you still have spells but you really only use them to keep you alive while you dish out massive amounts of damage to enemy spellcasters.

[Lonely Tylenol]

Warblade 20-X, Factotum 20-X, Wizard 20-X, where X is a prestige class that advances spellcasting (for Wizard), maneuvers/stances known (for Warblade), or useful class features (for Factotum) or any combination therein. I mean, you wouldn't PrC out of Wizard without gaining class features out of it, but that's aside from the point.

If you have the scores for it, you can jump out of Factotum after 8 levels and progress Ur-Priest to full, which would give you double 9ths, plus full maneuver progression.

[Soranar]

Factotum//Warblade//Erudite

[Draz74]

Honestly? In order to make a tristalt caster work as well as possible, what you really need is action economy breaking. Factotum is a good start (which means that Sorcerer is kind of out, sadly), but it's not enough.

I'm thinking Psion. Psionics has a lot of fun ways to break the action economy.

And, although I know Wizards are supposed to be the holy grail of powerful classes, I think that's actually the side that should get sacrificed ... because there's not that much that a Wizard can do that an Archivist or Psion can't do.

So I say Psion//Archivist/PrCs//Factotum. If you want, you can spice up the Factotum side with some other base classes (Warblade, Incarnum ...) dipped after 8 levels.

[dantiesilva]

Actually drop drea necro and cleric and add Psion and Factotum and you have a decent build. Saying psions can put there left over pp into special crystals. Now at end of day what pp you didn't use you put into crystals. You know when you thought gathering information for a week and doing nothing more for a week was useless, now it gives you 175pp not including your bonus pp from your ability modifier and race. Now I don't know about you but when you can do one energy ray for 175d6 damage.....yahh. Dms will think twice about giving you down time.And if they don't well have fun making atomic bombs. I remember making a DM ban psioncs because of a magic missle from a psion that was so powerful it blew the world up 5 times over.

[RaggedAngel]

Actually drop drea necro and cleric and add Psion and Factotum and you have a decent build. Saying psions can put there left over pp into special crystals. Now at end of day what pp you didn't use you put into crystals. You know when you thought gathering information for a week and doing nothing more for a week was useless, now it gives you 175pp not including your bonus pp from your ability modifier and race. Now I don't know about you but when you can do one energy ray for 175d6 damage.....yahh. Dms will think twice about giving you down time.And if they don't well have fun making atomic bombs. I remember making a DM ban psioncs because of a magic missle from a psion that was so powerful it blew the world up 5 times over.

Sorry, but you clearly don't understand how Psionics work. Please reread either the the straightforward information in the SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/indexes/psionicPowersOverview.htm) or your Psionics Expanded sourcebook.

Just a few of the errors you've made: Psions have a limit on the power points they can put into a single power, based on their manifester level. Psionic powers can only use power points from a single source. There are distinct limits on where and how many power points a Psion or Wilder can store. Also, Psions cannot manifest Magic Missile.

[Bahamut Omega]

Sorry, but you clearly don't understand how Psionics work. Please reread either the the straightforward information in the SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/indexes/psionicPowersOverview.htm) or your Psionics Expanded sourcebook.

Just a few of the errors you've made: Psions have a limit on the power points they can put into a single power, based on their manifester level. Psionic powers can only use power points from a single source. There are distinct limits on where and how many power points a Psion or Wilder can store. Also, Psions cannot manifest Magic Missile.

Seconded.

I've never heard of tristalting, honestly I imagine trying to maintain the character sheet would be a veritable nightmare.

I think if I was trying to twink one out, though, I'd go Rogue (sneak attack, UMD, skill points), Monk (perfect saves, spell resistance, flurry of blows, other esoteric abilities), and Wizard/Psion. The build doesn't use armor, but the magic user side should be able to cast Mage Armor or the psionic equivalent.

Alternately, drop the Monk and put in Fighter for the bonus feats and heavy armor then just go Psion since I don't believe psionics are hampered by armor. The saves will still be perfect, but you'll lose out on the neat stuff monk's get.

[erikun]

I would recommend Wizard//Psion//Factotum. Factotum can grant you extra actions, and Psion has stuff like Schism (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/schism.htm) for additional actions. You might be a bit tight on feats for it all to work well, though. Archivist is a decent substitute for Wizard, assuming that you can find enough divine scrolls to make it worthwhile (not guaranteed).


If you have the scores for it, you can jump out of Factotum after 8 levels and progress Ur-Priest to full, which would give you double 9ths, plus full maneuver progression.
This is also a good recommendation. You'd want Wizard//Psion//Factotum/Ur-Priest, to avoid losing your Archivist spellcasting due to Ur-Priest, though.

[Quellian-dyrae]

There is always Wizard//Archivist//Erudite. Your spell list is pretty much "yes". You would have enough action economy breakers if you need them, or you could just get by being the guy who only does one thing at a time - but it is exactly the thing you need.

[gorfnab]

Bard/ Sublime Chord // Crusader // Wilder

[D@rK-SePHiRoTH-]

Factotum//Warblade//Erudite
This. You just won the internet.

By the way, find some space to fit in Swiftblade.
The extra standard action (free, every single turn, no inspiration points involved) is awesome.

[SowZ]

A fun build if you don't want to be overly powerful but still synergize alright is a Wizard/Swashbuckler/Monk. Take Ascetic Monk and you will use your pimped Int score to do fun things.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

If you want a Cha-SAD character...

(Unseelie) Gloura (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20031003e) (+2 LA, 7 HD) (Fallen or Chaos) Cobra-Strike Monk (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#monkVariantFightingSty les) 2/ Paladin of Slaughter (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#paladinVariantsFreedom SlaughterAndTyranny) 2/ Arcane Duelist (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20030224a) 3/ Blackguard 3/ Mystic Wanderer 1, with Ascetic Mage.

Favored Soul 12/ Contemplative 1/ Favored Soul 7, get the Wrath domain, and you get Turn Undead via Blackguard to power DMM: Persist.

Sorcerer 5/ Incantatrix 7/ Sorcerer 8, plenty of bonus metamagic for Persist, Fell Drain, Twin, Repeat, and of course pick up Arcane Thesis: Cloud of Knives. You can Metamagic Effect: Persist your buffs, and Cooperative Metamagic: Persist your own spells when not in combat. Get a custom (Item Familiar (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/magic/itemFamiliars.htm)) Runestaff so you don't have to spend spells known on any of your 1/day buffs. You can even get UMD to make your Runestaff spells available to your Bard and Favored Soul spell slots. Be sure to have Arcane Spellsurge on all day.

Get a nice set of Necessary Magic Items (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=187851), but keep in mind that you can skip quite a few due to your spell effects.

Be sure to take Celerity with Quick Recovery, and use Moment of Prescience, Sign, and Nerveskitter to ensure that you always win initiative. Have as many Persistent Fell Drain Cloud of Knives spell effects on you all day as possible, and share them with your (Obtained, Improved) Familiar to double the number of level-draining daggers you fire every round. Use all the standard combat buffs, and be sure to take Leap Attack and put a Wand of Rhino's Rush in a wand chamber. Get a Valorous slashing weapon, and possibly even Sculpt Spell. Charge and destroy anything your negative level knives don't obliterate, then cast Whirling Blade in the same round to hit everything else for just as much damage as your charge attack including the initial charge target. Arguably, Whirling Blade with Sculpt Spell to be four 10-ft. squares can hit the same opponents multiple times if you overlap the four squares of its area.

[Spuddles]

Wizard, erudite, and warblade. Pick up the magic mantle with mantled erudite. Go into incantatrix on the wizard side and you can persist powers. Psions and warblade are a source of extra actions and feats to chaos shuffle. Race should be gray elf for same reason. Your schism can use the maneuvers that replace saves with concentration checks.

[Jack_Simth]

Hello everyone, I am looking for a semi-optimized level 20 tristalt character, I want a really diverse and strong caster. I'm also open to almost any suggestions you guys make.
OK... I have a few questions:

First, can you define semi-optimized?
What's the highest CR opponent you'd like to be able to roll over? How many opponents of CR 20 do you want to be able to take down at once? How quickly do you want to be able to wipe the field? How much do you want to be able to withstand? With that amount of resources, it's not overly difficult to get free Wishes several times a day... complete with the magic item creation clause that lets you make ANY magic item (Wish on your spells known list and ten levels of the Complete Divine Web Enhancement (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20040522a) Dweomerkeeper will get you 4 per day; the tenth level of Ur-Priest will let you copy an Efreeti's ability to grant nongenies 3 per day... grant them to yourself; the phaerimm from Lost Empires of Faerun have an LA, and get Sorcerer casting as spell like abilities... based on their hit dice, and no clauses about RACIAL hit dice or having to spend the components like a normal caster would, letting a phaerimm anything-20 get six or more free Wishes per day; Simulacrums can be made of things with free Wishes; there's many, many other methods). How strong do you want to get?

What are the DM's rules on LA, multiclassing, PrC's, and so on? The base Gestalt rules suggest that dual PrC's, such as the Mystic Theurge, not be permitted, but don't actually say it. Some DM's will let you take PrC's on multiple sides at once, others won't. Likewise, LA is not addressed, one way or the other - does it take up one side of the progression, all three, or what?

[dspeyer]

Beguiler / Rainbow Servant // Wizard // Psion / Beguiler

Intersperse the Beguiler levels on the mostly-psion side to cover the Rainbow Servant casting drops. Then take practiced manifester so that you can manifest 20 point powers (even if you can't know 9th level, lower level augmented can be awesome).

You might also consider filling one side with a high-mental monster, such as a mercane (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/mercane.htm) or succubus (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/demon#succubus).

[Hirax]

I'd honestly just go wizard/erudite (non-STP version for some sanity)/archivist

Be constantly shapechanged into a chronotyryn to take actions as though you're 2 creatures.

[Fyermind]

Druid // Psychic Warrior // Monk

Wisdom SAD after level 5, lots of bonus feats to do all the things a druid needs to do, plus some powers for buffs.

Alternatively Druid // Incarnate // Monk

Still wisdom SAD with a little bit of con focus (like everyone). This would be a great candidate for VoP if LN characters could take it which would help alleviate all feat troubles and paperworking of all those items you'd take.

Druid // Incarnate // Swordsage

Lots of great abilities. Lots of good wisdom stuff, and you can go exalted.

Cleric // Crusader // something 4/Prestige paladin 1/RKV 10/??? 5

All your cleric spells are paladin spells. Take the feat in complete champion that quickens all paladin spells. You can tank all day with crusader, and turn for swift actions to cast in. Action economy broken, ability to stand and fight, and not so optimized as to invalidate fighting on a team.

[eggs]

Factotum 20//Erudite 20 is a given, looking at how hard that tears the action economy apart, and how unfriendly the classes are to multiclassing.

For the third leg, I'd go with Wizard over the other real contender, Archivist. Not because the Wizard's spell list adds a more diverse spell array to Factotum and Erudite's support (it doesn't), but because the class itself and its associated ACFs/PrCs are just much stronger than the Archivist's.

Factotum 20//Erudite 20//Abjurer 3/Master Abjurer 2/Incantatrix 7/Iot7V 7/Hathran 1 would essentially auto-win initiative, then get 50 or so standard action castings out on the first round without too much hassle, which can then be used to spontaneously cast from the wizard's spellbook, freely applying metamagic where it's desired. And when the character's turn ends, it still has Iot7V's nearly impenetrable defenses to keep it safe.

But if I were doing this? Totally CG Barbarian 1/ZS Fighter 9/Champion of Gwynharwyff 10//Formbound Surger (http://dsp-d20-srd.wikidot.com/formbound-surger) 20 (Wilder meets Animorphs)//Unbound Witch 19 (3rd party class that's the Wilder to the Binder's Psion)/Voltanic Angel Binder 1 (3rd party Binder PrC that gets to bind core celestials as vestiges) - a mess of disjoint magic systems that all come together for a pretty solid Exalted Raging Shapeshifting Charisma-based melee bruiser, without breaking anything too hard.

[Slipperychicken]

Beguiler / Rainbow Servant // Wizard // Psion / Beguiler

Intersperse the Beguiler levels on the mostly-psion side to cover the Rainbow Servant casting drops. Then take practiced manifester so that you can manifest 20 point powers (even if you can't know 9th level, lower level augmented can be awesome).

You might also consider filling one side with a high-mental monster, such as a mercane (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/mercane.htm) or succubus (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/demon#succubus).

The table lies. Rainbow Servant progresses full casting. Enjoy laughing at the Favored Soul.

[Salanmander]

How about a Factotum 8+/Swiftblade 9+//Wizard//Duskblade 13+ for action economy breaking? Carry around a whip, choose your best touch spell, cast it on everything within 15 feet, then have 1-2 standard actions with which to cast other spells.

Plus, that still has 10 levels to play around with, which might be useful for bonus feats (swiftblade requirements if nothing else, to let you take more fonts of inspiration), defensive abilities, or any other random thing you want to play around with.

[Lonewolfe208]

Seconded.

I've never heard of tristalting, honestly I imagine trying to maintain the character sheet would be a veritable nightmare.

I think if I was trying to twink one out, though, I'd go Rogue (sneak attack, UMD, skill points), Monk (perfect saves, spell resistance, flurry of blows, other esoteric abilities), and Wizard/Psion. The build doesn't use armor, but the magic user side should be able to cast Mage Armor or the psionic equivalent.

Alternately, drop the Monk and put in Fighter for the bonus feats and heavy armor then just go Psion since I don't believe psionics are hampered by armor. The saves will still be perfect, but you'll lose out on the neat stuff monk's get.

I actually went from making a character for it to DMing it. O.O and yes, all my monsters have to be tristalt for it to be fair.

[Salanmander]

I actually went from making a character for it to DMing it. O.O and yes, all my monsters have to be tristalt for it to be fair.

That's not necessarily true. A tristalt character is probably ECL +2/+3, so you might just treat them as a party 2-3 levels higher, and have normal monsters. Alternately, you can just take it as license to give your monsters 2-3 very powerful abilities, like an extra standard action per turn, or 12d6 sneak attack, or automatically succeeding on a save once per round.

[Spuddles]

That's not necessarily true. A tristalt character is probably ECL +2/+3, so you might just treat them as a party 2-3 levels higher, and have normal monsters. Alternately, you can just take it as license to give your monsters 2-3 very powerful abilities, like an extra standard action per turn, or 12d6 sneak attack, or automatically succeeding on a save once per round.

In my experience, optimized casters roflstomp most monsters. Gestalting monsters is probably the fairest way to handle casters, as there's no HD inflation or introduction of higher level spells that the party can't undo that come with CR+2 or +3 monsters.

I like to give hags dread necro casting, for instance, and brutes like giants martial progression or cleric casting.

Abuse of stacking 10 levels of cleric onto fire giant is pretty good, precisely for the HD inflation.