Lactantius
2012-05-22, 11:30 AM
Im curious if there are any known early entry methods for the Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil Prestige Class.
Some may argue that this is a powerful class and may wonder why someone would make an an early entry for this class.
Let me explain:
First, the signature ability of the Io7V is wholly defensive. Since D&D is a system which strengthens the offense and the initiative, I would not evaluate the veils THAT powerful.
Actually, some are very circumstancial, some get obsolete by themselves (say, the first two veils will rarely be used if you can already use veil number 4 or 5).
And some are even a downside for the Io7V herself: the indigo veil blocks all spells, also the own spells. In other words, the indigo veil disables the own magic abilites if you use it as personal ward.
The last veil planeshifts the enemy away. Nice, but not always wanted (lost loot or maybe lost NPC you needed alive/wanted to interrogate etc).
Finally, the veils are limited. Even at the highest spot of the class - at CR 17 - you have only 4 uses per day to supply walls, areas or personal wardings for the whole day. Therefore, a Io7V would use her veils cautiously and maybe reconsider if it is worth in this certain battle to use a veil.
Beside the siganture ability, you get a powerful killing tool (no doubt), but this comes at CR 17. So, maybe appropriate.
You get dispel bonuses to offense and defense. That's really nice, but, again, circumstancial.
But now to my main point:
I see most campaigns reaching up to level 11-13, maybe level 15. But that's all about it.
So, the theory of "how will the veil work" will not find its practical use because we have a really late entry in this PrC (CR 10).
Moreover, all other wizard PrCs start at level 5, 6 or 7. One exception is the archmage, but that's okay.
Even the powerful classes like incantatrix, divine oracle, MoAO, Malconvoker or master specialist start early enough to reach their highlight or capstone at ~ CR 15.
Finally, you take 3 weaker feats to get into the class which drags you down in the power level.
My approach would be to tweak the Io7V to fit these specifications:
- practical applicance of the class abilites at levels which you actually reach;
- adaption of the entry level in comparion to the other usual wizard PrC;
- check the class abilites / ECL vs. the complete wizard's CR to resolve a balance check (yes/no).
The tweak could be done very easily:
keep the feats, the 4th-level abjuration spells and just reduce the skill ranks from 12 to 10.
So, a wizard could start with a Io7V at level 8. He would reach the end od the class at level 14, which maybe the end of the campaign and therefore, a suitable end of the class. Remember that most good wizard PrCs end at the level range 14-15, too since they start at level 5 and include 10 levels.
With starting at level 8, a wizard would need to pick the 3 feats earlier since he cannot count on the level-9-feat. Sure, he can still go for the master specialist to get the feats, but then again, he loses class abilites from the MS.
What is left?
The most important thing is to check the Io7V level powers within each correspondent ECL to see whether there is a impact on the balance (or not).
For example, a wizard could apply his first veil at level 8 (insteatd of 10). He gets a protection against nonmagical arrows, bolts and so on. This is a spell effect which can be simulated with protection from arrows, a 2nd-level spell which would last longer. Plus, both; at level 8 or 10, nonmagical projectiles are not THAT kind of danger for a wizard.
The veil defense comes with 20 fire damage, 10 if saved. This effect is okay at both ECLs.
With such a check, we would compare the gained power vs. the effective class level to find out if a certain power is over the top for this level range.
I have checked those powers (to be more specific, the veils, the dispel stuff and the reactive/double wards plus the doom capstone).
I cannot see a real difference in impact between merely 2 levels.
So, what is your opinion on allowing the io7V at level 8?
Okay?
Managable?
Too powerful?
Do you like the practical approach to make a prestige class work at the middle level range instead focusing on high level play?
Some may argue that this is a powerful class and may wonder why someone would make an an early entry for this class.
Let me explain:
First, the signature ability of the Io7V is wholly defensive. Since D&D is a system which strengthens the offense and the initiative, I would not evaluate the veils THAT powerful.
Actually, some are very circumstancial, some get obsolete by themselves (say, the first two veils will rarely be used if you can already use veil number 4 or 5).
And some are even a downside for the Io7V herself: the indigo veil blocks all spells, also the own spells. In other words, the indigo veil disables the own magic abilites if you use it as personal ward.
The last veil planeshifts the enemy away. Nice, but not always wanted (lost loot or maybe lost NPC you needed alive/wanted to interrogate etc).
Finally, the veils are limited. Even at the highest spot of the class - at CR 17 - you have only 4 uses per day to supply walls, areas or personal wardings for the whole day. Therefore, a Io7V would use her veils cautiously and maybe reconsider if it is worth in this certain battle to use a veil.
Beside the siganture ability, you get a powerful killing tool (no doubt), but this comes at CR 17. So, maybe appropriate.
You get dispel bonuses to offense and defense. That's really nice, but, again, circumstancial.
But now to my main point:
I see most campaigns reaching up to level 11-13, maybe level 15. But that's all about it.
So, the theory of "how will the veil work" will not find its practical use because we have a really late entry in this PrC (CR 10).
Moreover, all other wizard PrCs start at level 5, 6 or 7. One exception is the archmage, but that's okay.
Even the powerful classes like incantatrix, divine oracle, MoAO, Malconvoker or master specialist start early enough to reach their highlight or capstone at ~ CR 15.
Finally, you take 3 weaker feats to get into the class which drags you down in the power level.
My approach would be to tweak the Io7V to fit these specifications:
- practical applicance of the class abilites at levels which you actually reach;
- adaption of the entry level in comparion to the other usual wizard PrC;
- check the class abilites / ECL vs. the complete wizard's CR to resolve a balance check (yes/no).
The tweak could be done very easily:
keep the feats, the 4th-level abjuration spells and just reduce the skill ranks from 12 to 10.
So, a wizard could start with a Io7V at level 8. He would reach the end od the class at level 14, which maybe the end of the campaign and therefore, a suitable end of the class. Remember that most good wizard PrCs end at the level range 14-15, too since they start at level 5 and include 10 levels.
With starting at level 8, a wizard would need to pick the 3 feats earlier since he cannot count on the level-9-feat. Sure, he can still go for the master specialist to get the feats, but then again, he loses class abilites from the MS.
What is left?
The most important thing is to check the Io7V level powers within each correspondent ECL to see whether there is a impact on the balance (or not).
For example, a wizard could apply his first veil at level 8 (insteatd of 10). He gets a protection against nonmagical arrows, bolts and so on. This is a spell effect which can be simulated with protection from arrows, a 2nd-level spell which would last longer. Plus, both; at level 8 or 10, nonmagical projectiles are not THAT kind of danger for a wizard.
The veil defense comes with 20 fire damage, 10 if saved. This effect is okay at both ECLs.
With such a check, we would compare the gained power vs. the effective class level to find out if a certain power is over the top for this level range.
I have checked those powers (to be more specific, the veils, the dispel stuff and the reactive/double wards plus the doom capstone).
I cannot see a real difference in impact between merely 2 levels.
So, what is your opinion on allowing the io7V at level 8?
Okay?
Managable?
Too powerful?
Do you like the practical approach to make a prestige class work at the middle level range instead focusing on high level play?