Gestalt "Death Knight"

[Darklady2831]

I've recently decided to play in a gestalt game that'll start at level 1 and work its way up from there. My basic character idea is for a "Death Knight" that combines physical toughness and durability with necromantic power. One half of the Gestalt will definately be Dread Necromancer, but I'm having trouble picking exactly which melee class to use for the other half of the track.

Some Ideas I've been tossing around have been Fighter, Warblade, Duskblade, Barbarian, and Crusader. All of them have nice perks, but none of them really grasp the essence I want. So I've come to the playground for help. All I'm asking is for some input on which of these Classes would best compliment Dread Necromancer AND be able to use Medium Armor (Breastplate at lower levels, Mithril Full Plate at higher) without spell failure.

Really, the bottom line is that I need to function as both a Front-Liner, and a Necromaster (Archtype from Complete Mage) almost simultaneously.


Currently, what I have down for my character is the stats of
-16 STR
-15 DEX
-15 CON
-14 INT
-13 WIS
-18 CHA
And the following feats
-Tomb Tainted Soul
-Battle Caster
And the following Classe
-Dread Necromancer

[Essence_of_War]

What exactly is it about Crusader that you don't like?

I think that's the best choice, it has Cha synergy, it can wear the heaviest armors, any sort of weapon you like, and the schools it has access to can you make you into a Bulwark of Destruction or something more like a Legion Commander depending on the maneuvers you choose.

With your high cha, some other options might be Hexblade, Paladin (LE variant) also.

I might try something like:
Paladin (LE) 2/Hexblade 4/Crusader X on the melee side.

Trading the familiar away for the Dark Companion ACF. Possibly re-gaining the familiar w/ Obtain Familiar if Dread Necro is an arcane caster (I don't remember :smallsmile:) and taking Improved Familiar to get a cooler, more combat oriented version.

[Darklady2831]

What exactly is it about Crusader that you don't like?

I think that's the best choice, it has Cha synergy, it can wear the heaviest armors, any sort of weapon you like, and the schools it has access to can you make you into a Bulwark of Destruction or something more like a Legion Commander depending on the maneuvers you choose.

With your high cha, some other options might be Hexblade, Paladin (LE variant) also.

I might try something like:
Paladin (LE) 2/Hexblade 4/Crusader X on the melee side.

Trading the familiar away for the Dark Companion ACF. Possibly re-gaining the familiar w/ Obtain Familiar if Dread Necro is an arcane caster (I don't remember :smallsmile:) and taking Improved Familiar to get a cooler, more combat oriented version.

Crusader was actually one of the more liked of my choices, but I just wasn't sure about the way it gains maneuvers during the fight. As for Familiar, Dread Necromancer gains a free Imp, Quasit, Vargouille, or Ghostly Visage Familiar at 7th level, so I'm not really concerned with needing Improved Familiar. If anything, I'll probably end up with the Ghostly Visage so that it can be a part of me, I won't have to worry about it being killed.
As for the Paladin bit, I was wary of going into one of the Alignment Extremes, because the character's ideals were going to be Neutral Evil with the goal of becoming a god in the end.

[Hawk7915]

I've always thought that Duskblade or Crusader were the best fits for a "World of Warcraft" style deathknight, especially gestalted with Dread Necromancer. In gestalt, however, it's sometimes a good idea to have a largely passive side. One class that hasn't been mentioned yet is Marshal: d8 HD, medium armor proficiency, charisma-based auras to power you, your party-members, and your more cunning undead up, full BAB, and good fort saves, as well as a much better class skill list than you currently have. Pepper in 3 levels in Hexblade (for d10 HD, Arcane Resistance, and Mettle) and maybe a fighter dip (for feats and such), and you have a deadly necromancer who is also entirely capable of leading armies and whupping butt in melee.

Maybe Marshal 8/Zhentarim Dungeoncrasher Fighter 9/Hexblade 3?

[Waker]

Out of curiosity, what is the rest of your party playing?
I will agree that Crusader would mesh very well with Dread Necromancer. Getting Cha to Will saves, Smite, having both Fort and Will as high saves is always fun when you have Mettle, being able to heal with negative energy or maneuvers.
Consider dipping into Duskblade to channel your spells though your weapons.

[Morph Bark]

While the way the Crusader gains maneuvers during a fight is a little random, it can is in some aspects definitely the best of the three since you don't need to spend actions to recover maneuvers. I would've suggested Knight in place of Crusader, but if you take a few Bard levels on the other side and then go Crusader, taking Requiem and Song of the White Raven, you will definitely be awesome.

[eggs]

The most obvious I see would be something like Paladin/Bone Knight, probably dipping out into Divine Crusader for Deathbound domain and higher-level Charisma-based spell effects. But Bone Knight is pretty redundant with DN, iirc.

How would Cleric/Crusader/Ruby Knight Vindicator sound?
It would get a second turning pool, which could be used for things like Divine or Domain feats, some improved utility and self-buffing spell options, Crusader maneuvers and access to the Deathbound domain (for even more undead HD). It wouldn't have any problem casting in armor, and the spells should be better suited to the frontline role. Additionally, RKV's Shadow Hand access should fill in for some of the tactical teleport abilities to deal with some of the battlefield control effects that can sometimes give both Cleric and Dread Necros a bit of trouble. The Wis-based casting might set off red flags, but using Cleric spells for buffing, BC and utility, it's not particularly important to boost it higher than the bare minimum.

A spinoff of that that I'd be interested to try would replace Cleric with Oriental Adventures' Shaman. Shaman has an advantage over Cleric in its class features (namely, in just having them), has somewhat improved Charisma synergy (Divine Grace as well as turning), has a bit less overlap with the Dread Necromancer's spell list, and has some shinier buff options (most notably, Polymorph and Giant Size). The disadvantage of Shaman is that its splatbook support basically consists of a blurb in Spell Compendium saying to cherry pick spells from Druid and Cleric lists, and add splatbook Cleric domains. Given its buffing and transformative spells, those probably include the Bite of the WereX line, but it's up to the group to determine. Similarly, it also lacks ACF options relating to trading out its Animal Companion for something more multiclass-friendly (though that's not necessary if you keep 3.0's CL-based version of AC), spontaneous heal spells, or Turn Undead. I've never had a problem with groups accepting handwaving similar classes' tradeoffs onto unsupported splatbook classes, but that might not be appealing for another group.

[hushblade]

You can work in bone knight to the cleric/crusader/RKV, I recall managing to get 16BAB and 17th level cleric casting by the end of it once I looked at every level I took from it. That's a solid death knight without any gestalt at all.

Edit: If you'd like to go arcane instead of divine, Crusader//Dread Necromancer is very solid like everyone else said, I'd dip spellsword1 on your DN side so you can ignore 10% spell failure

[docnessuno]

Dread necromancer 20 // Crusader 8 / Ur-Priest 2 / Ruby knight vindicator 10

BaB +19
20th level DN casting and class features
10th level Ur-Priest casting (CL 30)
9th level maneuvers/stances
2 different Turn undead sources

Requires light re-fluffing of Ur-Priest or RKV

Another decent option is just going Duskblade 20 (less powerful, but fits the role and works well)