Eldritch Theurge

[Eonir]

So one of my players wants to play a cleric/warlock, then go into eldritch theurge. Most likely go cleric3/warlock1/ET10. He will be CG and an aasimar. 28 point buy as well, so he'll have the points to pump up wis and cha.

I think its a cool character concept and at a glance the ET looks like a solid Prc, but alas I have no experience with it at all. Anyone out there that does, what are your thoughts and opinions of it?

TL;DR- Is the Eldritch Theurge class good? Why or why not?

[Waker]

I think the Eldritch Disciple is a decent class. You'll lose a minimum of two cleric levels (one from taking a level of Warlock and a second at the first level of the PrC) but otherwise it progresses Turn/Rebuke Undead, offers the same HD, BAB and saves as a cleric. I think the Gifts are pretty bland, though Eldritch Spellweave might be useful. The biggest selling points is that you lose very little of your cleric powers in exchange for the invocations of the Warlock. I would suggest focusing more on the all-day buff type invocations, but that's just my preference.

[CheeseMerchant]

Hello,

The Eldritch Theurge is an Arcane/Invocation class. I think your player is wanting to play and Eldritch Disciple which is the Divine version. My thoughts follow from this assumption.

General thoughts:

This class will require the player to sacrifice 2 effective caster levels (one for Warlock 1 and 1 from the PrC). This is a significant reduction in power, but given that Cleric is an inherently powerful class this reduction might make the PC more suitable to your game. You know better than I what kind of power level is comfortable for you (as a DM) and your players.

Entry Requirements:

Nothing here that is strange or taxing. Knowledge: Religion and Knowledge: Planes are things I would expect this kind of character to have. The casting and invocation requirements are also fairly basic. Having to worship an Evil or Chaotic deity will limit their Domain selection, but isn't otherwise an issue.

Class Features:

Spellcasting - Losing a CL at 1st level (assuming no early entry method) means that the PC will be level 7 before they get access to 3rd level spells. This puts them 2 levels (and 1 entire spell level) behind a straight Cleric.

Invocations - 1 for 1 so that is good.

Gift of the Divine Patron (Su) - There is some good stuff in here (along with some duds). The best options are:

Corrupting Blast - Dropping Will Saves by up to -5 (in exchange for applying an Elderitch Essence) can be very good, or very poor depending on how many Save or Suck spells the party has available. In my opinion this is sub-par, but I can see uses for it.

Fearful Glare - Useful if the party is using Fear stacking, but the HD limitation makes it less attractive than it might be otherwise.

Healing Blast - This makes the character the party's downtime healer extraordinaire. It might (and I emphasize might) be enough for effective combat healing if the character is stacked for EB damage.

Wild Frenzy - Possibly useful if the intent is to use this chassis as a vehicle for CoDzilla + Glaivelock. That said, not impressive. I'd only take this if I already had everything else I wanted.

Turn/Rebuke - Stacks with Cleric so that is nice.

Eldritch Spellweave (Su) - This has some interesting applications (combo Eldritch Essence and a Spell), but the increase in casting time and limits on options make this less impressive than it might have otherwise been.

Timeless Body (Ex) - Meaningless.

Overall thoughts:

It isn't horrible and if your player is looking for a way to play a Cleric without dominating the table, then this gives him that option. This class will be weaker than a straight Cleric (though more powerful than a straight Warlock), but not so much that they feel worthless.

I hope that has helped.

Thank you.

[Eonir]

I appreciate the input from both of you.

I think with your recommendation, Cheese, this class will fit in quite nicely with the Crusader and direct damage Sorcerer.

Thanks guys!

[Urpriest]

I appreciate the input from both of you.

I think with your recommendation, Cheese, this class will fit in quite nicely with the Crusader and direct damage Sorcerer.

Thanks guys!

Do note that you need Cleric 4/Warlock 1 to enter, not Cleric 3/Warlock 1, absent an unnecessarily complicated amount of skill cap cheese.

[CheeseMerchant]

Glad I could help :smallsmile:

[Eonir]

Do note that you need Cleric 4/Warlock 1 to enter, not Cleric 3/Warlock 1, absent an unnecessarily complicated amount of skill cap cheese.

*rereads entry requirements*

Holy crap you do...:smalleek:

[Waker]

Looked back over the list of Eldritch Essences and now I need to reassess my opinion of the Eldritch Spellweave. Most of the essences are rather weak. It would have been more impressive if you could instead apply blast shape invocations.

Healing Blast - This makes the character the party's downtime healer extraordinaire. It might (and I emphasize might) be enough for effective combat healing if the character is stacked for EB damage.
Except that you need to exchange turn/rebuke undead attempts for it. Outside of combat, its far more cost effective to just use a cure light wand. I will agree that it might be useful for combat healing, if for no other reason than the range.

[CheeseMerchant]

Except that you need to exchange turn/rebuke undead attempts for it. Outside of combat, its far more cost effective to just use a cure light wand. I will agree that it might be useful for combat healing, if for no other reason than the range.

You are 100% correct. I overlooked that when looking at the class. This is only worthwhile for in combat healing (a sub-optimal use of an action, but there will always be a niche for this kind of ability).